When did we lose our national side?

[Incognito]

Would it help things to indroduce a new rule that said players brought through a club's academy system cannot be sold to another club until they are say 23? That way the top clubs can't hoover up the very best talent until they've at least been with their original club for a while. The players get to play regularly (if they're any good) rather than sit on the bigger club's bench but can still be purchased by others with their very best years ahead of them. By that time though they may not want to leave anyway if their own club has improved with them. Who knows, it might even increase the level of competition in the Premier League.

 

Might be talking bollocks here, just wondering.

 

Nope, sounds good to me.

 

The Premiership clubs would never wear it though unfortunately.

[Guest malandro]

They could go out on loan.

[Dave]

Would it help things to indroduce a new rule that said players brought through a club's academy system cannot be sold to another club until they are say 23? That way the top clubs can't hoover up the very best talent until they've at least been with their original club for a while. The players get to play regularly (if they're any good) rather than sit on the bigger club's bench but can still be purchased by others with their best ahead of them. By that time though they may not want to leave anyway if their own club has improved with them. Who knows, it might even increase the level of competition in the Premier League.

 

Might be talking bollocks here, just wondering.

 

What happens when you have a player coming through at a top side that will not get a game and needs to move?

 

Someone like Danny Guthrie for example.

 

Dunno. They could be made to apply to the Premier League to be released, either fully or on loan. They'd have to prove their case.

[brummie]

Nothing will be done to help the England team without the approval of the Premier League and the big clubs, and they rate "what is good for the England team" down there with "what's the optimal temperature of a half time pie" in terms of burning issues.

[Parky]

Celeb lifestyle, wags, wages, cars, elevated Ego's, delusions of grandeur, Rolex's, adverts, MTV Cribs, Sky Sports, ITV, The Sun, false sense of self importance.

 

Biggest problem has been highlighted in another thread. Our 'best players' play in games where there is barely competition week in week out, and if there is its brought down to a boring physical game. We struggle to play 'football' like a lot of the other national sides

 

...then suddenly they come up against players who are technically good and have no fear of them...Wallop! Ego in the toilet.

[Greg]

Nothing will be done to help the England team without the approval of the Premier League and the big clubs, and they rate "what is good for the England team" down there with "what's the optimal temperature of a half time pie" in terms of burning issues.

 

Too fucking hot, this issue actually needs to be looked at.

 

On the rare occasion I buy one they are so hot you can't eat the bloody thing for about 10 minutes.

[Guest malandro]

Would it help things to indroduce a new rule that said players brought through a club's academy system cannot be sold to another club until they are say 23? That way the top clubs can't hoover up the very best talent until they've at least been with their original club for a while. The players get to play regularly (if they're any good) rather than sit on the bigger club's bench but can still be purchased by others with their best ahead of them. By that time though they may not want to leave anyway if their own club has improved with them. Who knows, it might even increase the level of competition in the Premier League.

 

Might be talking bollocks here, just wondering.

 

What happens when you have a player coming through at a top side that will not get a game and needs to move?

 

Someone like Danny Guthrie for example.

 

Dunno. They could be made to apply to the Premier League to be released, either fully or on loan. They'd have to prove their case.

They could just limit squad sizes - stop certain clubs hogging all the emerging talent and reduce wage bills across the league.

[Interpolic]

Nothing will be done to help the England team without the approval of the Premier League and the big clubs, and they rate "what is good for the England team" down there with "what's the optimal temperature of a half time pie" in terms of burning issues.

 

Exactly.  I'm intrigued to know how the dynamic works in other countries.

 

Doesn't matter so much in Brazil and Argentina mind, since they mostly play abroad.  I've always thought there was something in that mind - our players hardly ever playing abroad.  Although Italy are arguably pretty similar.

[Parky]

If we ever owned it in the first place that is...

 

Each major tournament millions of summer fans buy a top, paint their face, hang a flag or 10 from the house, car and wherever else they can put them and go all Ingurland, Ingurland, Ingerland... all the way until the inevitable elimination to the Jormans or Argies or any other decent side we face after the group stage.

 

My question - why can't people just watch the game and leave it at that?

 

Each major tournament millions of shops the nation over from your local corner shop to major retailers fill their shelves, windows and promotions with absolute tat that to the buyer says "I LOVE INGURLAND ME, TILL I DIE"

 

My question -  why is wearing the shirt not enough?

 

Each major tournament millions of pounds are wasted on a manager who fails to deliver when it matters. Sven, Capello, who next?

 

My question - you don't get paid for managing the national side. That would rule out world-class managers managing our team like err, Sven and Capello of course, but err, what do they do exactly anway? Time for homegrown managers or even coaches. Do we even need a full-time manager?

 

Each major tournament our footballers seem to give up their day jobs and become something else other than a footballer for a week or 2.

 

My question - why or why? I doubt anyone really knows the answer to that one as there are so f***ing many questions.

 

Each major tournament since France 98, when England get sent home, a small and growing part of me is glad. When I see Jon Terry thumping the air and high fiving people after an average performance over Slovenia like he's somehow won the World Cup it feels somewhat contrived and false. In short I don't like our players and resent them succeeding. That's awful I know and comes over as bitter. When I tell people I hope Argentina win the competition people look at me as if I'm some kind of traitor. Why do I want a nation who we once went to war with and whose managed by a man who once cheated us to succeed yet don't for my own team's players? Simply because I like to see people who are passionate about the game, their football, their country etc. do well. Maradona lives for football, you can see it in his face. The Argentina team despite earning millions to a man they all care too and they love their footy. Our lot couldn't give a f*** so don't expect me to give a f*** back.

 

I love my country but I have no feelings for those players nor the team. I last did in 1998 when we were lead by our very own Lion of Gosforth, where an Englishman was the manager, where players cared and fought for the shirt. Remember Ince in Rome?

 

During that period is the time we lost the national side, or rather I did, for me anyway.

 

I'm an angry Englishman tonight because I care so much about my country and my football and it boils my piss that so many people care so little about the actual football itself, namely the players and those plastic summer fans who can piss right off. The type who look at you as if you're an alien because you're not wearing an England top like they are or have your face painted or have filled the hoose with flags. By the way, what happens to all those flags, do they go to flag heaven now? The very people by the way who go back into hiding when England go home. Cunts.

 

The players though... poor formations aside, poor tactics, aside, poor form and even fitness aside, there is no excuse for the lack of heart or effort shown by many. This is the f***ing world cup and our lot ran around in a half arsed fashion with the sign of misery across their sorry spoiled worthless faces for the main part and that, that is unbelievably and unforgivable.

 

I would love for the next manager, and we need one, to start afresh and drop them all, most for good because if they haven't shown they are not good enough they have certainly shown they are not worthy.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

England has become a brand and like all brands is shiny on the outside but hollow to the core.

[BONTEMPI]

PFA and greedy agents have given players too much power and add to that a great lack of respect for the people that pay their wages.

 

No way of changing for the better as there's too much money to be made, so football will eventually implode on itself.

 

 

[Pilko]

Money > England's success.

 

This is nicely shown by this fact:

 

New world cup ball. We should use it in the league to allow players to get used to it. What a great idea that is, that way the England players and the goalies will be used to the ball by the time South Africa arrives!

No, no, we'd rather earn a few million by using a Nike ball or an Adidas ball, or whatever. It'll be alright on the night.

[Dave]

Money > England's success.

 

This is nicely shown by this fact:

 

New world cup ball. We should use it in the league to allow players to get used to it. What a great idea that is, that way the England players and the goalies will be used to the ball by the time South Africa arrives!

No, no, we'd rather earn a few million by using a Nike ball or an Adidas ball, or whatever. It'll be alright on the night.

 

[quayside]

Am i the only one who thinks that England players do actually care ? I matleast for the reason that that they are as good as they are as children they must have spent ages playing football to have the skills they have and the only reason i can imagine them doing that is because actually like the game. Yes, they underperformed, yes they like their Bently's and yes they are on massive wages but i still believe they care.

 

You are right, they do care. Does anyone really think the likes of Rooney,Terry, Gerrard aren't arsed about pitching up at the ultimate high profile event and looking like utter tits? The problem is probably that they care too much and are too scared to perform.

[Parky]

Money > England's success.

 

This is nicely shown by this fact:

 

New world cup ball. We should use it in the league to allow players to get used to it. What a great idea that is, that way the England players and the goalies will be used to the ball by the time South Africa arrives!

No, no, we'd rather earn a few million by using a Nike ball or an Adidas ball, or whatever. It'll be alright on the night.

 

It's basically now a franchise.

[Dinho lad]

Anyone see Ashley Cole's reaction as he was getting off the plane tonight?

 

What does everyone think? Discuss.

[Guest rememberbillyrafferty]

in answer to your initial question you are confusing companies taking advantage of marketing opportunities with real football fans imo

[Incognito]

Anyone see Ashley Cole's reaction as he was getting off the plane tonight?

 

What does everyone think? Discuss.

 

What did he do?

[Dinho lad]

Anyone see Ashley Cole's reaction as he was getting off the plane tonight?

 

What does everyone think? Discuss.

 

What did he do?

 

Laughing and joking with Ledley King. He was just a bit too happy, imo.

[Guest malandro]

Am i the only one who thinks that England players do actually care ? I matleast for the reason that that they are as good as they are as children they must have spent ages playing football to have the skills they have and the only reason i can imagine them doing that is because actually like the game. Yes, they underperformed, yes they like their Bently's and yes they are on massive wages but i still believe they care.

 

You are right, they do care. Does anyone really think the likes of Rooney,Terry, Gerrard aren't arsed about pitching up at the ultimate high profile event and looking like utter tits? The problem is probably that they care too much and are too scared to perform.

Perhaps it’s what they care about, the pride of the nation or personal glory? Rooney certainly played like he cared more about himself than the team.

[JH]

Anyone see Ashley Cole's reaction as he was getting off the plane tonight?

 

What does everyone think? Discuss.

 

What did he do?

 

Laughing and joking with Ledley King. He was just a bit too happy, imo.

 

The way they acted on the pitch with no passion or heart at all, I would actually fall off my seat if they came off the plane crying.

[quayside]

Am i the only one who thinks that England players do actually care ? I matleast for the reason that that they are as good as they are as children they must have spent ages playing football to have the skills they have and the only reason i can imagine them doing that is because actually like the game. Yes, they underperformed, yes they like their Bently's and yes they are on massive wages but i still believe they care.

 

You are right, they do care. Does anyone really think the likes of Rooney,Terry, Gerrard aren't arsed about pitching up at the ultimate high profile event and looking like utter tits? The problem is probably that they care too much and are too scared to perform.

Perhaps its what they care about, the pride of the nation or personal glory? Rooney certainly played like he cared more about himself than the team.

 

The pressure put on Rooney to perform and "score a goal" was ridiculous, so much crap written about Rooney and when all is said and done he's a member of a squad and has to do a job. Who cares whether he scores as long as the team win? He looked to me like a player struggling to perform to the huge expectations that were put on him.

[brummie]

If Rooney has an issue with huge expectations, one thing he might want to consider is doing fewer Nike (and similar) tv ads which make him out to be the nation's saviour.

 

I'm picturing rows of babies having 'WAYNE' wristbands stapled on them whilst I write this.

[Dave]

Am i the only one who thinks that England players do actually care ? I matleast for the reason that that they are as good as they are as children they must have spent ages playing football to have the skills they have and the only reason i can imagine them doing that is because actually like the game. Yes, they underperformed, yes they like their Bently's and yes they are on massive wages but i still believe they care.

 

You are right, they do care. Does anyone really think the likes of Rooney,Terry, Gerrard aren't arsed about pitching up at the ultimate high profile event and looking like utter tits? The problem is probably that they care too much and are too scared to perform.

Perhaps it’s what they care about, the pride of the nation or personal glory? Rooney certainly played like he cared more about himself than the team.

 

The pressure put on Rooney to perform and "score a goal" was ridiculous, so much crap written about Rooney and when all is said and done he's a member of a squad and has to do a job. Who cares whether he scores as long as the team win? He looked to me like a player struggling to perform to the huge expectations that were put on him.

 

Huge expectations borne out of being the top English goalscorer in the league this year and qualifying for this tournament. How is he meant to avoid expectation? Just like the rest of the squad did with the qualifying campaign, he earnt it.

 

They can't have it both ways.

[Pilko]

If Rooney has an issue with huge expectations, one thing he might want to consider is doing fewer Nike (and similar) tv ads which make him out to be the nation's saviour.

 

I'm picturing rows of babies having 'WAYNE' wristbands stapled on them whilst I write this.

 

Spot on.

 

quayside, I think you are a good poster, but I think you are talking utter shit about England - I have never read a string of posts I disagree with more. Sorry.

[themanupstairs]

I suspect that even Capello doesn't know where it's gone wrong. You can see him cut a confused figure at full-time rather than a disappointed one. The stuff that's been mentioned here about celeb lifestyles, wags and all the cash definitely has an effect, but what about the other superstars from other nations?

 

For me the buck stops with the FA, the PL, and the media machine that is behind it. English players do go through a gruelling season that doesn't give them a breather at the right time. Winter break or not, they play too many consecutive "big games", and as evidenced by the performance in this tournament, get burned out. They were pedestrian today. So pedestrian that it would be wrong to call them "England" from a traditional footballing perspective. For me the selection and persistence with Barry has been Capello's biggest tactical error. Watch how many attacks Barry started for the opposing team in all 4 matches.

 

HTT is right though. The essence of a proud nation's national team is lost, and the lord only knows how and when you can get it back.