The Liverpool Thread

[Dokko]

I can see a few years of finishing 7th at best mind.

 

If he finished 7th it will be acceptable by the board, but the fans will have lost confidence in him, he does it again and he's sacked, and that's really at best and why I thought 2 years at most going off current shit.

 

The board might panic before that. They wanted rid of Rafa for ages, but couldn't afford to off him, things will be different for Woy.

[Guest]

I just don't see where they can go forward. There's only so long they can keep living off the 70s & 80s before players start sussing that they're nothing special anymore. Players breaking through now would have been born early 90s so doubt give a flying f*ck about how once upon a time they were good and had a few jammy cup wins in the 2000s.

[Dokko]

I just don't see where they can go forward. There's only so long they can keep living off the 70s & 80s before players start sussing that they're nothing special anymore. Players breaking through now would have been born early 90s so doubt give a flying f*ck about how once upon a time they were good and had a few jammy cup wins in the 2000s.

 

I think the brand will live on, a bit like how our support has stayed strong even though we've been shite for too many years and even suffered through relegation. As long as there are fans worldwide new players will respect the club and see it as a chance to help wake a sleeping giant...a bit like a lot of players have said about us over the years.

 

Problem for them is now, there really is no sight of an end, or a way to pick up, if Woy fails they really are fuked beyond anything i've seen in my lifetime for them. Liverpool fans think 7th is a disaster, what if they don't qualify for Europe at all or even finish outside the top ten? What would the numbers be like, what kind of support would the receive? Keep paying Torres and Gerrard £12m a year between then alone while not producing and its only a matter of time before they collapse financially. It happened to us, huge wage bill and under achieving, we had a CL wage bill with barely Euro cup positioning, Liverpool have a title challenging wage bill and can't compete to get themselves back in to CL. However long it takes it will catch up to them, and the owners are in no position to bail them out.

 

I know you are looking even further beyond that, but right now these next two seasons are crucial, about as crucial as us staying up, possibly more as I'd think there is easily a way back in to the league for us, for Liverpool to get back in the CL with Citeh buying their way to the title, Chelsea miles ahead and fully financially loaded and Arsenal set up for the future and Manu a club which will never fully die, it will be some achievement and this year is their best shot as the year after it will be harder and the year after probably impossible, and so on.

 

 

[Elbel1]

I just don't see where they can go forward. There's only so long they can keep living off the 70s & 80s before players start sussing that they're nothing special anymore. Players breaking through now would have been born early 90s so doubt give a flying f*ck about how once upon a time they were good and had a few jammy cup wins in the 2000s.

 

I think the brand will live on, a bit like how our support has stayed strong even though we've been s**** for too many years and even suffered through relegation. As long as there are fans worldwide new players will respect the club and see it as a chance to help wake a sleeping giant...a bit like a lot of players have said about us over the years.

 

Problem for them is now, there really is no sight of an end, or a way to pick up, if Woy fails they really are fuked beyond anything i've seen in my lifetime for them. Liverpool fans think 7th is a disaster, what if they don't qualify for Europe at all or even finish outside the top ten? What would the numbers be like, what kind of support would the receive? Keep paying Torres and Gerrard £12m a year between then alone while not producing and its only a matter of time before they collapse financially. It happened to us, huge wage bill and under achieving, we had a CL wage bill with barely Euro cup positioning, Liverpool have a title challenging wage bill and can't compete to get themselves back in to CL. However long it takes it will catch up to them, and the owners are in no position to bail them out.

 

I know you are looking even further beyond that, but right now these next two seasons are crucial, about as crucial as us staying up, possibly more as I'd think there is easily a way back in to the league for us, for Liverpool to get back in the CL with Citeh buying their way to the title, Chelsea miles ahead and fully financially loaded and Arsenal set up for the future and Manu a club which will never fully die, it will be some achievement and this year is their best shot as the year after it will be harder and the year after probably impossible, and so on.

 

 

 

This part is spot on

With Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelski, Man City, Spurs (possibly Everton- if they get their act together) ahead of them at the moment, they are realistically playing for a Europa League spot this season

The likes of Gerrard and Torres will not be happy without CL football for the forseeable future and will be forming an orderly queue at the exit door.

On a side note the selling price for Gerrard is only going to go down now - over 30 - so they will have to cash in soon if they want to buy a suitable replacement.

This could well be the start of an irreversable slide for LFC, who knows when or were it will end?

 

[merlin]

If the results don't pick up for them soon(and the performances), I can see Hodgson out of the door by the end of the season, maybe earlier, and MON brought in.

 

Liverpool are in a tight spot now and it would be easy to imagine they might panic if things continue badly.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

[Parky]

Liverpool FC chief Purslow: Club board is against any Tom Hicks refinance bid

 

Sep 23 2010 Liverpool Echo

 

LIVERPOOL managing director Christian Purslow insisted the club’s board members will firmly resist any attempt by co-owner Tom Hicks to refinance the club’s debts of £237m with Royal Bank of Scotland.

 

His comments came as part of a Q&A with Reds fans in which he also revealed:

 

Tom Hicks and George Gillett turned down an offer for LFC before Easter

 

That refusal to sell led to the board shake-up which brought in Martin Broughton as chairman

 

The club is “a very healthy business” but can only “just about” cope with the interest and bank charges on the owners’ loans.

 

Reports have suggested Hicks is trying to raise cash to buy out the RBS debt ahead of next month’s refinancing deadline to retain control at Anfield.

 

But asked if Hicks could refinance the debt against the club’s assets, Purslow said: “That would require Board approval and the other members of the Board have made it clear that’s not what we want to see happen. It’s very unlikely.

 

“Any occurrence of indebtedness by Liverpool Football Club needs full Board approval. The non-owner directors have made it clear that’s not what we want to see happen.”

 

The non-owner directors are Purslow himself, commercial director Ian Ayre and chairman Martin Broughton, who can outvote Hicks and Gillett 3-2.

 

Purslow said he remains firmly committed to the sale of the club and believes Hicks and George Gillett are still keen to sell.

 

“I can’t speak for the owners but I am absolutely sure that both of them are totally committed to trying to sell the club as soon as possible,” he said.

 

“They haven’t had an offer yet that they like and so I suspect that both of them individually and collectively are pursuing their other alternatives and that’s their prerogative.

 

“I want this club sold more than anybody in the world.”

 

Earlier this year Purslow, whose family hail from Birkenhead, spoke about his hope of securing significant investment by Easter but it didn’t materialise. By Easter there was at least one investor ready to invest in the club, but not on terms that were acceptable at that time to the owners,” he said.

 

“I think it’s fair to say that precipitated a further series of changes; the appointment of Martin Broughton as the new chairman, pretty dramatic changes to the Board of directors where George and Tom’s family came off the Board and essentially the Board was re-jigged and, most importantly, the owners agreed they would seek a sale of all of the club rather than what we had been working on up to Easter, which was a partial investment, which I don’t think was ever likely to be the optimum outcome for anybody.

 

“So I think that was a positive development in April and since then we have been working hard to try and find somebody to buy all of the club.”

 

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/09/23/liverpool-fc-chief-purslow-club-board-is-against-any-tom-hicks-refinance-bid-100252-27325700/#ixzz10MD3mvUS

[Parky]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

[wacko]

I just don't see where they can go forward. There's only so long they can keep living off the 70s & 80s before players start sussing that they're nothing special anymore. Players breaking through now would have been born early 90s so doubt give a flying f*ck about how once upon a time they were good and had a few jammy cup wins in the 2000s.

 

I think the brand will live on, a bit like how our support has stayed strong even though we've been s**** for too many years and even suffered through relegation. As long as there are fans worldwide new players will respect the club and see it as a chance to help wake a sleeping giant...a bit like a lot of players have said about us over the years.

 

Problem for them is now, there really is no sight of an end, or a way to pick up, if Woy fails they really are fuked beyond anything i've seen in my lifetime for them. Liverpool fans think 7th is a disaster, what if they don't qualify for Europe at all or even finish outside the top ten? What would the numbers be like, what kind of support would the receive? Keep paying Torres and Gerrard £12m a year between then alone while not producing and its only a matter of time before they collapse financially. It happened to us, huge wage bill and under achieving, we had a CL wage bill with barely Euro cup positioning, Liverpool have a title challenging wage bill and can't compete to get themselves back in to CL. However long it takes it will catch up to them, and the owners are in no position to bail them out.

 

I know you are looking even further beyond that, but right now these next two seasons are crucial, about as crucial as us staying up, possibly more as I'd think there is easily a way back in to the league for us, for Liverpool to get back in the CL with Citeh buying their way to the title, Chelsea miles ahead and fully financially loaded and Arsenal set up for the future and Manu a club which will never fully die, it will be some achievement and this year is their best shot as the year after it will be harder and the year after probably impossible, and so on.

 

 

 

This part is spot on

With Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelski, Man City, Spurs (possibly Everton- if they get their act together) ahead of them at the moment, they are realistically playing for a Europa League spot this season

The likes of Gerrard and Torres will not be happy without CL football for the forseeable future and will be forming an orderly queue at the exit door.

On a side note the selling price for Gerrard is only going to go down now - over 30 - so they will have to cash in soon if they want to buy a suitable replacement.

This could well be the start of an irreversable slide for LFC, who knows when or were it will end?

 

 

I think "irreversible slide" is a bit over the top. It was like this under Roy Evans, but it wasn't the end. The main thing is we get new, and decent owners as soon as possible, and get the Yanks' debt off our books. To be able to compete with Man Utd and Arsenal, we have to get a new stadium built. UEFA's new financial rules should piss on Chelsea's and Man City's bonfire.

 

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

Why are we fucked for a decade? The debt wasn't run up by the club, but the owners' buying it. Before they showed up, LFC's debt was low, and the club was profitable. The club will be sold soon (hopefully), and the debt cleared. Unless the new owner does exactly the same thing

[Guest VegasToon]

Not sure if posted elsewhere, but I found this to be an interesting read:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/09/why_rbs_looks_set_to_own_liver.html

 

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

"Don't stop believing..."

[TRon]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

[Guest VegasToon]

Dare I say it:  Liverpool need a Mike Ashley.  Someone who will buy the club, not complete due diligence and has the money to lend them interest free. 

[cubaricho]

This could well be the start of an irreversable slide for LFC, who knows when or were it will end?

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer club.

[Parky]

Not sure if posted elsewhere, but I found this to be an interesting read:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/09/why_rbs_looks_set_to_own_liver.html

 

 

 

Intrersting comment on there:

 

 

4. At 10:01am on 23 Sep 2010, LFCforumCo wrote:

With Gillette out of the picture, all eyes are on Tom Hicks and RBS. As long as Hicks hasn't found some rich lunatic to lend him hundreds of millions of pounds when the deadline hits, RBS absolutely HAVE to take over. All prospective buyers are waiting for this to happen. As soon as it does, and we are praying it will, I wouldn't be surprised to see some interested parties of old slip back into the frame... Then RBS hold a quick auction of suitable and solvent parties (no LBO merchants please), possibly even turning a profit themselves?

 

I do wonder though if the only way to legally wipe out the holding company debt would be to officially declare 'administration' and lose 9 points, though the FA appear to be rubber-stamping immunity from penalty in that instance.

 

I appreciate RBS really don't want to find themselves in charge of a football club, but they've admitted to over-extending this line of credit, so having got us in this situation (and creamed in the interest), it's time to step up and get us back out again.

 

I was greatly reassured by Mr Purslow's comments and manner during the recent interview- let's hope the bank and board win this final trans-Atlantic showdown not just for us fans, but for the very future of Liverpool Football Club.

 

Someday soon I'd like to be able to justify to myself buying shirts, match tickets, hotdogs and bovrils again. I'd also prefer to spend my 'footy time' actually worrying about leftbacks and not leverage. One day I'd like to take a grandson or granddaughter to watch the reds, with all this sh*te a distant memory (that the FA learned lessons from).

 

I might even reopen my RBS account if they do the right thing!

 

 

[Parky]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

 

Think RBOS will take it over in Oct. But will they get fined points and will it be called administration? It should be, but I have a feeling Liv will get protection from the Fa.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

 

In any event, it just shows how quickly things can turn around in football. We were beating Barca in the Champs League, then a few years later we were relegated .

 

For Liverpool, this is a frightening thought. For the likes of us, it shows how short the route back to the top can be.

[wacko]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

 

Think RBOS will take it over in Oct. But will they get fined points and will it be called administration? It should be, but I have a feeling Liv will get protection from the Fa.

 

It depends on the exact rules and the exact structure of the the debt. My understanding is that the debt is owed by LFC's owner, the holding company, as the LFC board repeatedly rejected attempts to move the debt onto the club's books. If this is the case, perhaps just the holding must declare bankruptcy, not LFC itself. I don't know enough about the situation or the rules to say whether that would help us avoid a point penalty.

 

I really can't see anyone coming in with a bid before the Yanks default, though. They'd have to pay quite a premium.

[Guest neesy111]

If liverpool are taken over by the banks, a firesale in January will happen.

[Guest BooBoo]

Hodgson punched above his weight at Fulham with few real expectations. Baffling appointment for Liverpool and one that won't end well.

 

Delighted to see them in such a mess though, despicable shower.

[Guest GAMMELL]

Hodgson punched above his weight at Fulham with few real expectations. Baffling appointment for Liverpool and one that won't end well.

 

Delighted to see them in such a mess though, despicable shower.

 

I second that sentiment. WANKERS

[Guest BooBoo]

For me it's always been Liverpool who have been the original glory hunters. A few years back I was at Anfield and had a walk around the ground and barely heard a scouse accent. Irish, londoners, welsh all over.

 

Plus those god awful flags! "Spirit of Shanks" and all that shite- pass the sick bag please.

[Cronky]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

 

Think RBOS will take it over in Oct. But will they get fined points and will it be called administration? It should be, but I have a feeling Liv will get protection from the Fa.

 

It depends on the exact rules and the exact structure of the the debt. My understanding is that the debt is owed by LFC's owner, the holding company, as the LFC board repeatedly rejected attempts to move the debt onto the club's books. If this is the case, perhaps just the holding must declare bankruptcy, not LFC itself. I don't know enough about the situation or the rules to say whether that would help us avoid a point penalty.

 

I really can't see anyone coming in with a bid before the Yanks default, though. They'd have to pay quite a premium.

 

I think it was Southampton that tried this - claiming that it was the holding company that went bust rather than the club. It wasn't accepted.

 

Whether being taken over by a debtor like RBS counts as administration may depend on detail. If it's an enforced takeover due to insolvency then I'd say it's administration, so it might depend on the Americans' co-operation in being taken over, which is uncertain. It looks like a game of chicken at the moment.

 

One thing though - RBS are obliged to act in the interests of their shareholders, investors and deposit holders. They are not obliged to act in the interests of Liverpool FC or their supporters, and quite right too. There are other people to be considered here, despite what that message from LFC forumco implies.

[Guest gggg]

I think it was Southampton that tried this - claiming that it was the holding company that went bust rather than the club. It wasn't accepted.

 

That was the opposite though. Southampton put the holding company in debt, without the holding company Liverpool would be profitable.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Nobody can manage Liverpool out of their current issues by the end of this season IMO.

 

They might have to take a couple of years of fundamental reconstruction to get back to their best. Their limited finances might mean they never can.

 

Whoever's in charge, they're on the long hard road at the moment.

 

In football these things go in cycles, I think barring the appearance of a mega wealthy owner, Liverpool are fucked for a decade while they convert to a low debt busniness model.

 

I never thought I'd say this 24 months ago, but I can honestly see us overtaking Liverpool's position in the Premier within a couple of years.

 

Think RBOS will take it over in Oct. But will they get fined points and will it be called administration? It should be, but I have a feeling Liv will get protection from the Fa.

 

It depends on the exact rules and the exact structure of the the debt. My understanding is that the debt is owed by LFC's owner, the holding company, as the LFC board repeatedly rejected attempts to move the debt onto the club's books. If this is the case, perhaps just the holding must declare bankruptcy, not LFC itself. I don't know enough about the situation or the rules to say whether that would help us avoid a point penalty.

 

I really can't see anyone coming in with a bid before the Yanks default, though. They'd have to pay quite a premium.

 

Precedent has been set that if a Holding Company is declared bankrupt it still reflects on the club. Southampton, West Ham, Portsmouth all recent cases. It shouldn't be any different for Liverpool. All the holding company is, is a detachment of 'funds' from the main body of a person's wealth. So if things do go to pot it only affects that allocation and the rest of the 'empire' is spared from Administration.

 

So while it isn't LFC's debt, it is debt on LFC as the holding company owns Liverpool. If that company goes into administration so do Liverpool.