Disco Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 correct me if I'm wrong but don't the world cup holders now have to qualify and only the hosts get straight in? Correct. The holders shouldn't be allowed automatic entry IMO. We should never be allocated five places either though (unless that's our country's agreed consistent allocation). That fifth place will come at the expense of someone else. It won't come at the expense of anyone else if it's always allocated. Say Chelsea had gotten 3rd and won tonight, then the team in 5th would get an extra place. If the country that wins the CL always gets an additional place then there's nothing unfair about it, it's a bonus and a reward to that league for winning the competition. Seems fair enough although the place should be allocated to a country doesn't have direct entry to the groups IMO. It's bad enough as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year There weren't 4 CL places in those days so this is a laughable comment anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Chelsea might well have qualified fourth if they had focused all their efforts on that but they didn't. All they cared about towards the end was winning the champions league so who knows what might have happened if they had got knocked out. Aye it's quite telling that of the two English clubs to win the Champions League in the last ten years, neither finished in the top four. It has helped Chelsea to be able to shut down in the last few weeks, even to the point where we're winning at their place and even Liverpool win at Anfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The whole Champions League structure is a farce and it'll only get worse till the inevitable European Super League happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year Did they take the place from that year's German champions though? If not it's irrelevant. No but the same thing would happen now if a country with only one CL place won it It's the fact that we get 4 places already that means we don't get another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Chelsea might well have qualified fourth if they had focused all their efforts on that but they didn't. All they cared about towards the end was winning the champions league so who knows what might have happened if they had got knocked out. Aye it's quite telling that of the two English clubs to win the Champions League in the last ten years, neither finished in the top four. It has helped Chelsea to be able to shut down in the last few weeks, even to the point where we're winning at their place and even Liverpool win at Anfield. Except Man Utd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Chelsea might well have qualified fourth if they had focused all their efforts on that but they didn't. All they cared about towards the end was winning the champions league so who knows what might have happened if they had got knocked out. Aye it's quite telling that of the two English clubs to win the Champions League in the last ten years, neither finished in the top four. It has helped Chelsea to be able to shut down in the last few weeks, even to the point where we're winning at their place and even Liverpool win at Anfield. You've missed at Man Utd's 2008 win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year Did they take the place from that year's German champions though? If not it's irrelevant. No but the same thing would happen now if a country with only one CL place won it It's the fact that we get 4 places already that means we don't get another Why does this matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Originally it was only the Champions of each league who qualified for the Champions League (hence the name). The Premier League can consider itself lucky to have 4 Champions League places never mind wanting any more places. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 You win the Champions League and you are rewarded with the trophy, I don't see why there should be a bye into the next tournament at the expence of another club, you've gotten your rewards. Finishing 4th though, only to have this potential freak circumstance happen once in a blue moon must be fucking sickening, and completely unjust on the club who have worked hard all season to get where they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Originally it was only the Champions of each league who qualified for the Champions League (hence the name). The Premier League can consider itself lucky to have 4 Champions League places never mind wanting any more places. Why does it have to count itself lucky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year There weren't 4 CL places in those days so this is a laughable comment anyway. More laughable than 4th place being an achievement worth comparing to winning the European Cup? That's what's fucked up, not the holders getting in as they've always done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Originally it was only the Champions of each league who qualified for the Champions League (hence the name). The Premier League can consider itself lucky to have 4 Champions League places never mind wanting any more places. The Champions League has changed now though, it's a tournament which is designed to involve the best teams in Europe, not the 'Champions'. Obviously the name is misleading, but the format has never been in doubt. We're hardly lucky to have 4 slots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Seriously, lucky () or not, that's the current situation and the reason certain countries get more places is that they've performed better than the rest and are generally better leagues. Are the Europa League winners usually gutted about not being able to defend their trophy if their league form means they get into the CL? No, league position is everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Chelsea might well have qualified fourth if they had focused all their efforts on that but they didn't. All they cared about towards the end was winning the champions league so who knows what might have happened if they had got knocked out. Aye it's quite telling that of the two English clubs to win the Champions League in the last ten years, neither finished in the top four. It has helped Chelsea to be able to shut down in the last few weeks, even to the point where we're winning at their place and even Liverpool win at Anfield. You've missed at Man Utd's 2008 win. Completely forgot about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year There weren't 4 CL places in those days so this is a laughable comment anyway. More laughable than 4th place being an achievement worth comparing to winning the European Cup? That's what's fucked up, not the holders getting in as they've always done Spurs have been a better side than Chelsea this season and if one of them deserves to get in the premier European cup competition then it's them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't even think I agree with those saying the winners must take priority over the club finishing 4th place to give them a chance to defend their title, if I had to pick one or the other I'd go for who finished 4th. A club like Chelsea has failed massively by finishing outside the top 4 with the money they've spent and the wages. So you pick someone who finishes 4, third of the losers to play in the Champions League over someone who are the champions of the Champions League. Bizarre! Even more bizarre to pick the people who finished 5th of the losers like, or potentially 19th, as it could happen. Bayern finished 10th when they won the second European Cup in the 70's. Who finished 4th in the Bundesliga that year? Nobody knows because it doesn't matter, Bayern winning the European was a far better achievement which people do still remember and gave them the right to win it he next year There weren't 4 CL places in those days so this is a laughable comment anyway. More laughable than 4th place being an achievement worth comparing to winning the European Cup? That's what's fucked up, not the holders getting in as they've always done They haven't always though, the rules only changed when Liverpool wet themselves about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Incidentally, do Chelsea go straight to the group stage, or do they still have a qualifier to go through? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Seriously, lucky () or not, that's the current situation and the reason certain countries get more places is that they've performed better than the rest and are generally better leagues. Are the Europa League winners usually gutted about not being able to defend their trophy if their league form means they get into the CL? No, league position is everything. League position obviously isn't everything here. It's only correct that the champions defend their trophy. That's an achievement, finishing 4th shouldn't give you the right to anything. I'm far more comfortable with Chelsea being in there next year than Man Utd, Arsenal and defiantly Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yeah, does this mean Arsenal need to go through a qualifier now? Rings a bell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Incidentally, do Chelsea go straight to the group stage, or do they still have a qualifier to go through? Group stage. Arsenal have to do a qualifier now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 'Lucky' as in not all the leagues get 4 places. For example, Italy don't any more unless I'm mistaken. The Champions League kept expanding to include more of the top teams. 5 teams from one league would be a joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Bit surprised gggg favours a rule which plays into the hands of the elite, considering his usual views on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Arsenal don't have a qualifier, all four go straight in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I haven't decided on this one tbh. Can see both sides, and I'd tend to prefer to go against helping the elite do see logic in allowing champions to defend their title. Still, dunno. Quite funny when Spurs are the victims, less funny when Liverpool are the beneficiaries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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