HawK Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 What better game for him to play the full 90, totally dominate City, score 2 hattricks and shatter De Jong's spine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 As the Man city game is coming up, I would be interested on how many think HBA Should play, or should we leave him out for this game. Would hate for another Nigel De Jong's ill-timed sliding challenges on him. Aye, think we should drop Ba for Lovenkrands aswell just to make 100% sure we get tanked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 So by pointing out he didn't play well means I'm having a go? Looks like Fugazi hit the nail on the head on the previous page. Ben Arfa is a player coming back after a year out through injury, he was given 20 minutes to try to do something and probably tried too hard. He needs game time to gain match fitness and he needs to start so that he can relax and get used to the players around him. Nobody has denied any of that Mick. I'm surprised people are getting their backs up so much by others saying he didn't play well when he came on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm sure i read somewhere that the player who gives possession away the most for barca is Messi... Its the nature of the beast as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't it be a valid point to say that an orthodox pass that's on is easier to defend against than an unorthodox dribble in tight areas. Football to the finer detail is about gambling, whether it be playing a through ball with a tight angle, whether it be peeling off at the back post for a cross or in ben arfas case whether it be taking on men in advanced positions. He'll lose a few of those gambles but he'll definitely win more than his fair share because plain and simply he's so sublimly talented, its an aspect of his game Im always willing to accept, much like I'm willing to accept tiote flaws with his yellow cards and colocinnis flaws with not sleeping with my girlfriend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 aye i think the balance argument...is HBA is still not use to the team..when he realizes which teammates will benefit the team with the ball , pretty confident he would pass it into space.. His flair to get into positions where he has those options is extremely valuable... it was what made me fall in love with football when i was a lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I think people are having unrealistic expectations of HBA. The lad has been out for a year with a carrer-threatening leg break. Give him time to re-adjust to the pace of the premier league and to get his match sharpness back. When this happens he is going to be incredibly valuable to the performance of our team. If Obertan had come on off the bench and made the impact Ben Arfa made against Spurs, people would be singing his praises undoubtedly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm sure i read somewhere that the player who gives possession away the most for barca is Messi... Its the nature of the beast as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't it be a valid point to say that an orthodox pass that's on is easier to defend against than an unorthodox dribble in tight areas. Football to the finer detail is about gambling, whether it be playing a through ball with a tight angle, whether it be peeling off at the back post for a cross or in ben arfas case whether it be taking on men in advanced positions. He'll lose a few of those gambles but he'll definitely win more than his fair share because plain and simply he's so sublimly talented, its an aspect of his game Im always willing to accept, much like I'm willing to accept tiote flaws with his yellow cards and colocinnis flaws with not sleeping with my girlfriend. It's when you lose the ball 10 yards outside your own penalty area with most of your team-mates upfield that it's a real problem. He could have lost us the game at that point. I think he'll also have to get used to a different style of refereeing. Challenges which would probably be called a foul on the Continent are often waived on by English refs. He'll have to be a bit more conservative in deciding when to try and beat a man or hang on to the ball. Not a lot, just a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm not sure if that last part has been true for a few years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do So why was he so much better when he came on against Blackburn then? He wasn't? I'm not even sure what the point of the debate is? Yes he was rusty but we'll be much stronger as a squad with him match fit,the only way to do that is give him 90 mins,start him against Wigan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm sure i read somewhere that the player who gives possession away the most for barca is Messi... Its the nature of the beast as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't it be a valid point to say that an orthodox pass that's on is easier to defend against than an unorthodox dribble in tight areas. Football to the finer detail is about gambling, whether it be playing a through ball with a tight angle, whether it be peeling off at the back post for a cross or in ben arfas case whether it be taking on men in advanced positions. He'll lose a few of those gambles but he'll definitely win more than his fair share because plain and simply he's so sublimly talented, its an aspect of his game Im always willing to accept, much like I'm willing to accept tiote flaws with his yellow cards and colocinnis flaws with not sleeping with my girlfriend. It's when you lose the ball 10 yards outside your own penalty area with most of your team-mates upfield that it's a real problem. He could have lost us the game at that point. I think he'll also have to get used to a different style of refereeing. Challenges which would probably be called a foul on the Continent are often waived on by English refs. He'll have to be a bit more conservative in deciding when to try and beat a man or hang on to the ball. Not a lot, just a bit. Agree. Its fine saying "we just have to accept he'll lose the ball sometimes" when the two times he does it lead to the opposition wasting big chances to win the game. Im still a bit unsure as to his ability to score goals rather than create them, he'll need to do both if we only have one striker & after he came on it didnt seem like we had much in the box at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm sure i read somewhere that the player who gives possession away the most for barca is Messi... Its the nature of the beast as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't it be a valid point to say that an orthodox pass that's on is easier to defend against than an unorthodox dribble in tight areas. Football to the finer detail is about gambling, whether it be playing a through ball with a tight angle, whether it be peeling off at the back post for a cross or in ben arfas case whether it be taking on men in advanced positions. He'll lose a few of those gambles but he'll definitely win more than his fair share because plain and simply he's so sublimly talented, its an aspect of his game Im always willing to accept, much like I'm willing to accept tiote flaws with his yellow cards and colocinnis flaws with not sleeping with my girlfriend. It's when you lose the ball 10 yards outside your own penalty area with most of your team-mates upfield that it's a real problem. He could have lost us the game at that point. I think he'll also have to get used to a different style of refereeing. Challenges which would probably be called a foul on the Continent are often waived on by English refs. He'll have to be a bit more conservative in deciding when to try and beat a man or hang on to the ball. Not a lot, just a bit. Agree. Its fine saying "we just have to accept he'll lose the ball sometimes" when the two times he does it lead to the opposition wasting big chances to win the game. Im still a bit unsure as to his ability to score goals rather than create them, he'll need to do both if we only have one striker & after he came on it didnt seem like we had much in the box at times. the areas he attempts things that may lose possession is what is important, he needs to cut out the very risky stuff in our own half. encouraging your attacking players to take risks in the final third is one of the keys to good management, according to alex ferguson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The entire 'Can Ben Arfa play as a winger' debate is kicking off on twitter. Dear me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Pardew: "My view is that he can’t play out wide. He has not got the relish for it and his best football comes through the middle." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 He's looked class on the wing when I've seen him but I suppose Pardew wasn't managing him back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ben Arfa is pretty much the player wich holds onto the ball. Keeps it until he sees something he can do to create a goal opportunity. I think playing him through the middle requires us to have way more advanced wingers then we have now. They should be sniffing at their backline allready when he gets the ball. Ben Arfa himself has to make time for himself and start the movement by leading the ball to a place where space opens up. This is where he will relish imo. Where he draws out players from the central line to take the ball from him and he punts it on into the little space left by the defenders for wingers/ba to slot in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wouldn't be against seeing Ben Arfa move onto the right instead of Obertan. Best and Ba have been a crucial part of our early season success; both have played well and it'd be harsh to drop either of them. Obertan hasn't and is fortunate to still be in the side. However if winging Ben Arfa, a player who likes to drift in and out (rather than hug the touchline), unbalances the side - it's probably not the best idea. Although i'm not a fan of Obertan in the slightest, i think having two direct, conventional wingers has contributed to our play immensely, if only for the fact that it's given Jonas a bit more space to exploit. Pardew's got some nice problems, there's no doubt about it. I think we need to see Hatem introduced sooner rather than later, though. Where Sylvain fits into the jigsaw remains to be seen, but i doubt it's down the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do So why was he so much better when he came on against Blackburn then? He wasn't? I'm not even sure what the point of the debate is? Yes he was rusty but we'll be much stronger as a squad with him match fit,the only way to do that is give him 90 mins,start him against Wigan. The debate seems to be people pointing out that he didn't have a very good game when he came on and others throwing their toys out of the pram over it. If he plays well he will get credit, if he has a poor game people will bring that up too so I'm not sure why it's becoming an issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 i see, well clearly whether he had a good game or not is subjective. however i'd suggest it's a bit more objective to suggest that because of the type of player he is we had a new dimension to the type of attacking football we could play once he was on the pitch. whether he lost it or not is irrelevant to the second point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 i see, well clearly whether he had a good game or not is subjective. however i'd suggest it's a bit more objective to suggest that because of the type of player he is we had a new dimension to the type of attacking football we could play once he was on the pitch. whether he lost it or not is irrelevant to the second point. I've said previously that I don't think we picked up because he was on the pitch, we picked up because we went a goal down so had to take more risks in throwing people forward with Spurs happy to let us to try and hit us on the counter attack, something that they are excellent at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wouldn't be against seeing Ben Arfa move onto the right instead of Obertan. Best and Ba have been a crucial part of our early season success; both have played well and it'd be harsh to drop either of them. Obertan hasn't and is fortunate to still be in the side. However if winging Ben Arfa, a player who likes to drift in and out (rather than hug the touchline), unbalances the side - it's probably not the best idea. Although i'm not a fan of Obertan in the slightest, i think having two direct, conventional wingers has contributed to our play immensely, if only for the fact that it's given Jonas a bit more space to exploit. Pardew's got some nice problems, there's no doubt about it. I think we need to see Hatem introduced sooner rather than later, though. Where Sylvain fits into the jigsaw remains to be seen, but i doubt it's down the right. Against Wigan, we can get away with playing him on the right in my opinion, on the proviso that Santon plays RB as he has the ability to get up and down the pitch well enough to still offer us a decent amount of balance when attacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Aye, with Santon behind it should be OK, but I'd still rather see HBA central. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Aye, with Santon behind it should be OK, but I'd still rather see HBA central. Me too. For this game though, and to ease him back into the sdie as such, a free role from the right whilst sticking with two strikers could be very effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oddly enough can see Obertan drawing a lot of fouls out of the Wigan defence. Though still prefer Marveaux there and HBA central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oddly enough can see Obertan drawing a lot of fouls out of the Wigan defence. Though still prefer Marveaux there and HBA central Prefer to draw goals out of them meself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 i see, well clearly whether he had a good game or not is subjective. however i'd suggest it's a bit more objective to suggest that because of the type of player he is we had a new dimension to the type of attacking football we could play once he was on the pitch. whether he lost it or not is irrelevant to the second point. I've said previously that I don't think we picked up because he was on the pitch, we picked up because we went a goal down so had to take more risks in throwing people forward with Spurs happy to let us to try and hit us on the counter attack, something that they are excellent at. I think there's more to it than 'picking up' though. I think the ways in which we could attack were expanded on through having him in a central position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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