Hatem Ben Arfa

[Beren]

Right now, there can only really be positives - every flash of brilliance (no matter how fleeting!) can only be progress. Everything else really can't be taken seriously at this stage. If any perceived weaknesses or foibles are still overly evident months down the line of playing - then the doubts can have credibility, but right now they're without foundation or substance IMO.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you credit the good, you have to debit the bad.

 

Your devalue your support of any issue by saying "only look at the points (no matter how fleeting) that support my argument".

 

Strange choice of word. During, what is essentially still convalescence, I do think you can have it both ways.

 

[JH]

I'm entering the argument now! I would have lambasted any player for making such a pass in the 90th minute of a game. Slender advantage against a team that could have punished us. It's 6 against 2, it's an unflattering angle, he's better off holding onto the ball and getting further up the pitch.

 

Chipping a ball to Ba like that is pretty much saying to Everton "Here's the ball, come and attack us!"

[Canuck]

Right now, there can only really be positives - every flash of brilliance (no matter how fleeting!) can only be progress. Everything else really can't be taken seriously at this stage. If any perceived weaknesses or foibles are still overly evident months down the line of playing - then the doubts can have credibility, but right now they're without foundation or substance IMO.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you credit the good, you have to debit the bad.

 

Your devalue your support of any issue by saying "only look at the points (no matter how fleeting) that support my argument".

 

Strange choice of word. During, what is essentially still convalescence, I do think you can have it both ways.

 

An argument by definition is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons or evidence for accepting a particular conclusion. Why do you say it is a strange choice of word? It appears to me that you are arguing the position that this player has only positive attributes.

 

Maybe you need to define your terms for me. What does "essentially still convalescence" mean? I understand that convalescence is but have trouble applying it here. Is he physically unable to perform? Or, do you contend that the player should not be commented upon until such time as you deem it appropriate?

 

I admit that I have trouble with the line of thinking that says no negative comments because he suffered an injury 13 months ago. How is this reasonable? Expectations can be modified to come to terms with that reality; howewer, no player can be excused.

 

If anything it is the, so far unjustified, claims that he is going to be brilliant for Newcastle that are adding to the degradation of the thread.

[alexf]

Can you get banned for telling people to fuck off? might be worth it some of the irritating and purposeful winding up going on in here.

 

I don't get why people enjoying it so much? do people just get off on the fact they are irritating others and getting them to "bite"

 

We get your points about ben arfa, fine that's your opinion. But do you have to keep ramming it down everyone's throats constantly post after post? You have made your positions clear now give it a rest or are you lot guna keep posting different examples and keep arguing with different people for the next 2 weeks before you have more evidence to add to your armoury?

[Beren]

Right now, there can only really be positives - every flash of brilliance (no matter how fleeting!) can only be progress. Everything else really can't be taken seriously at this stage. If any perceived weaknesses or foibles are still overly evident months down the line of playing - then the doubts can have credibility, but right now they're without foundation or substance IMO.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you credit the good, you have to debit the bad.

 

Your devalue your support of any issue by saying "only look at the points (no matter how fleeting) that support my argument".

 

Strange choice of word. During, what is essentially still convalescence, I do think you can have it both ways.

 

An argument by definition is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons or evidence for accepting a particular conclusion. Why do you say it is a strange choice of word? It appears to me that you are arguing the position that this player has only positive attributes.

 

Maybe you need to define your terms for me. What does "essentially still convalescence" mean? I understand that convalescence is but have trouble applying it here. Is he physically unable to perform? Or, do you contend that the player should not be commented upon until such time as you deem it appropriate?

 

I admit that I have trouble with the line of thinking that says no negative comments because he suffered an injury 13 months ago. How is this reasonable? Expectations can be modified to come to terms with that reality; howewer, no player can be excused.

 

If anything it is the, so far unjustified, claims that he is going to be brilliant for Newcastle that are adding to the degradation of the thread.

 

Wow.

 

For the sake of clarity, though:

- I didn't say HBA has only positive attributes.

- By 'convalescence' I mean he has not recovered from breaking his leg, and is lacking match sharpness that only gradual and incremental gametime can provide him. In the interim, I do think it a little ill-advised to make criticisms of him as a player. You might as well be criticising Shakespeare's literacy skills as a toddler for all the relevance it has to what Shakespeare will have as a writer when an adult. (the comparison is a little extreme, I grant you ) So, by all means criticise him, but criticisms are fairly meaningless at this stage (unless they're based on pre-injury Ben Arfa viewings).

- In terms of when it will be appropriate to criticise him (and yes, it seems as though some are waiting to do so! ), I don't know how things will play out. So I don't have any answer for you - though I appreciate how much stock my opinion holds with you! I would say that in the absence of Tiote, Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan, it seems telling (to me, anyway) that Pardew brought in Gosling, Guthrie and Sammy Ameobi ahead of Ben Arfa in the midfield, who eventually came on to replace an injured Best. Whilst Pardew may see HBA as a "number 10", I'm fairly confident he would have come into midfield much sooner if Pardew thought him to be on top of his game. So, I don't think that time is here yet.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

Waouuuuu !!!!! 

what football masturbation

this thread

Thanks for the intelligent contribution. If you think the thread is s**** then don't post. It is a fairly straightforward concept.

 

Leave the discussion to those that have something to say. For the sake of clarity, the thread title is "Hatem Ben Arfa" and as such the implication when a thread title is a player's name is that discussions regarding the player are held here. Performances, newspaper commentary, opinions on the player's style and attributes are all fair game.

 

Then the rest of us would not have to endure your tiresome posts.

 

Of course, having said that, I guess it is equally fair to post "OMG BEN ARFA IS THE GREATEST" as well.

 

He was joking. Some people among "the rest of you" made similar statement with different words without enduring your intolerance. If you think he's tiresome, just don't reply and your foreigners chasing (<<the rest of us>>; <<MY TEAM>> etc.) since last night is really tiresome.

[SiLvOR]

The man can do no right. If he tries that pass and it doesn't come off, he's a fool for attempting something so late in the game and gifting Everton possession. He doesn't try to make the pass and sensibly holds onto the ball, he's a cunt with no hope of ever breaking into our glorious side. Whatever. He's a very talented player who I love having at the club, he's got all the time he needs tbh. Double leg break people. Double leg break.

[Heron]

Again - he's a quality player but is still yet to find the form he could be at, imo. That will come with game time and confidence, I'm sure. For the time being, I just hope he keeps things simple.

[Canuck]

For the sake of clarity, though:

- I didn't say HBA has only positive attributes.

- By 'convalescence' I mean he has not recovered from breaking his leg, and is lacking match sharpness that only gradual and incremental gametime can provide him. In the interim, I do think it a little ill-advised to make criticisms of him as a player. You might as well be criticising Shakespeare's literacy skills as a toddler for all the relevance it has to what Shakespeare will have as a writer when an adult. (the comparison is a little extreme, I grant you ) So, by all means criticise him, but criticisms are fairly meaningless at this stage (unless they're based on pre-injury Ben Arfa viewings).

- In terms of when it will be appropriate to criticise him (and yes, it seems as though some are waiting to do so! ), I don't know how things will play out. So I don't have any answer for you - though I appreciate how much stock my opinion holds with you! I would say that in the absence of Tiote, Cabaye, Marveaux and Obertan, it seems telling (to me, anyway) that Pardew brought in Gosling, Guthrie and Sammy Ameobi ahead of Ben Arfa in the midfield, who eventually came on to replace an injured Best. Whilst Pardew may see HBA as a "number 10", I'm fairly confident he would have come into midfield much sooner if Pardew thought him to be on top of his game. So, I don't think that time is here yet.

Thanks for that - all sound and supported opinions. Even the hyperbole was well used... *I hope that doesn't sound condescending because it is not meant to*

 

Your assesment of Pardew bringing on both DG's and Sammy ahead of him is interesting to me. Gosling is also coming off injuries BUT he is a completely different player to what we expect HBA to be.

 

Tactically, it seemed that AP shut up shop with the injuries. I am not debating this pass v that run, but it is curious to put SaAmeobi in as my read on him is that he does not have the kind of strength to work a ball deep and hold it in the corners. HBA does seem stronger on the ball under pressure.

[Canuck]

He was joking. Some people among "the rest of you" made similar statement with different words without enduring your intolerance. If you think he's tiresome, just don't reply and your foreigners chasing (<<the rest of us>>; <<MY TEAM>> etc.) since last night is really tiresome.

 

I don't think it's foreigners chasing when I am a foreigner myself. That's like double reverse discrimination. I am chasing myself but I always win - or lose- because I never get caught - or catch.

 

Which one's are "the rest of you"?  Maybe we should have shirts. Blues v Reds. Come ON, let's be 'aving you!

[ujpest doza]

 

 

Hop.

 

He could have played it with his left a split second before that screenshot was taken.

 

As for looking stupid, you've been shown up to post screenshots to try and shoot down my point not banking on someone else posting one that proved me right, quite embarrassing for you really.

 

Nobody else has posted a screenshot never mind one that's proved you right.  You are nitpicking about a player who is returning from a double leg break and an ankle injury.  He's been out for the best part of a year and missed most of pre-season.  You're having a go at Ben Arfa because he failed to make a pass which was almost impossible to make.

 

Here's a second earlier, how could he have made a pass?  For him to play a ball that Ba is going to get on the end of is impossible because Ben Arfa would have to play the ball in front of Ba and if he did that the defender would be first to it.  You're the one going on about the pass and you're wrong.

 

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3734/benarfaandba.jpg

 

That screenshot looks so much better cos it's in HD.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

I don't think it's foreigners chasing when I am a foreigner myself.

 

You're right, It was not clear enough. French posters - sorry, I mean fanboys, blinded Hatem-lovers - chasing was more suited.

But let's return to football.

 

[M4]

That screenshot looks so much better cos it's in HD.

 

That's the only thing I've been enjoying from that whole minutia. How good the screenshots look

[Christmas Tree]

Can you get banned for telling people to fuck off? might be worth it some of the irritating and purposeful winding up going on in here.

 

I don't get why people enjoying it so much? do people just get off on the fact they are irritating others and getting them to "bite"

 

We get your points about ben arfa, fine that's your opinion. But do you have to keep ramming it down everyone's throats constantly post after post? You have made your positions clear now give it a rest or are you lot guna keep posting different examples and keep arguing with different people for the next 2 weeks before you have more evidence to add to your armoury?

 

It's inflammatory posts like this which add nothing of interest that ruin this thread tbh.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

Really?

[Flip]

Again - he's a quality player but is still yet to find the form he could be at, imo. That will come with game time and confidence, I'm sure. For the time being, I just hope he keeps things simple.

 

Aye, whatever she said

[Heron]

Again - he's a quality player but is still yet to find the form he could be at, imo. That will come with game time and confidence, I'm sure. For the time being, I just hope he keeps things simple.

 

Aye, whatever she said

 

[Guest fraser]

Honestly.....and you wont believe me......but if you took all the precious Ben Arfa comments and the bile directed at posters out of the last 20 pages, you would probably have 5 pages of decent discussion about his appearances so far and the possible ways in which he will or wont fit in to the team.

 

Thats about the bottom line in fairness.

 

None of which would have been ascribed to you.

[Guest Benarfanufc10]

Honestly.....and you wont believe me......but if you took all the precious Ben Arfa comments and the bile directed at posters out of the last 20 pages, you would probably have 5 pages of decent discussion about his appearances so far and the possible ways in which he will or wont fit in to the team.

 

Thats about the bottom line in fairness.

 

Title of thread Ben arfa  "To love or not, Ben Arfa is a choice almost ideological?" 

ben arfa: Yes, and I'm proud! My way of playing is a way of seeing life ... Your game is what you are ... I can not be cushy, formatted. "

 

 

[alexf]

Can see this thread going quieter over the next few days

[Guest Dontooner]

Lets wait and see, i think the titanic weights of expectations are unfairly put on Ben's shoulders while it should rest on Pardew's. I would think its his inability to bring out the potential in Ben right now due to how he setup the team to play. I hope most people would agree with me, even with Messi in our team....we would look average decent ...not a Arsenal, Chelsea, Manu etc. We would look like a team with a very good player , thats about it...

People being on about Ben fitness and sharpness and all , whats my bigger concern is the current Manager able to step up our football that could fit world class players like tevez , Mascherano etc. You could have world class players..for example France but really shit managers Raymond Domenech...etc..

 

For the Debate of the single pass....i put the blame yet again on Pardew, if you analyze  all the games we had played so far the team it self had plenty of chances to play through balls, but never seem prepare to make the decisive pass when they were available..it shows that in training it is not something we had being working on...even if we set off the striker off 1 v 1 somehow i dont have the confidence we would score. Its all due to training on the pitch to get the players used to a certain routine play. Improvising by the players would not give us a consistency.

Therefore to conclude, Both Ben and Pardew are learning how to play....and both must be given a chance to make it work! Its a Transition phrase, a very important one as we speak....lets hope they can both get it right...or the likely hood is one would have to be changed.

[TRC]

I can't believe some people are taking screenshots to prove there points, some people really need to sort their lives out.

[Guest BooBoo]

I can't believe some people are taking screenshots to prove there points, some people really need to sort their lives out.

 

You can just imagine them scrutinising the footage in freeze frame to get the exact shot. Dismal.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

Those screenshots only show 2 isolated newcastle players in counter, 5 minutes before FT.

If Newcastle really wanted a third goal, we would have seen Sammy and Guthrie in support.

I can nitpick indefinitely myself and say Ba's run wasn't in the right direction...blah, blah, blah...etc. etc. etc.

[Elliottman]

Saylor-

 

“You’re bringing in top talent, the French boys have come in and been a breath of fresh air.

 

“Ben Arfa’s a quality player, for instance, he’s a special talent and we’ve got a great buy there. He’s getting his fitness back now and looking sharp and getting back to where he was.