Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is shite in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is shit, Jonas is shit, Shola is shit, Sami is shit, Vuckic is shit, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Just play him Pardew. Just earn it Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Obertan is shit yeah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The guy is possibly just slightly above average Aye, possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Obertan is a footballing god. yeah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is shite in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is shit, Jonas is shit, Shola is shit, Sami is shit, Vuckic is shit, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Nice try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He's sick of all the crap that gets spewed on here, then goes on to spew massive loads of crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is shite in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is shit, Jonas is shit, Shola is shit, Sami is shit, Vuckic is shit, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Nice try. At what? Are you telling me that he HAS earned it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is s**** in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is s***, Jonas is s***, Shola is s***, Sami is s***, Vuckic is s***, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. He scored a brilliant goal against Norway in his last game for France about 2 weeks before he signed for us. He didn't start that game but he looked very good when he came on. Ben Arfa has missed a year of football and is a year younger than Cabaye, he's played 1 game less for France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I know what you mean Canuck, even if you expressed it in an incredibly patronising way, but it's not as simple as that. Sometimes you need something a bit special, and fans like to see exciting players. Even if HBA doesn't graft as hard as some others in training etc (which we don't know) he is one of those special players that exceptions sometimes have to be made for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is shite in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is shit, Jonas is shit, Shola is shit, Sami is shit, Vuckic is shit, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Nice try. At what? Are you telling me that he HAS earned it? Does he have to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He's sick of all the crap that gets spewed on here, than goes on to spew massive loads of crap Which part is not true? Which part is crap? Have I missed some of his International appearances? Have I missed it where he has earned a place in the team? Please correct me if I mis-stated the actual facts. Not speculation, not hope, just facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. Always liked statistics including (long) period of injury and recovery... You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). Well for a player of 20 years old at that time, I don't really see your point... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is shite in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is shit, Jonas is shit, Shola is shit, Sami is shit, Vuckic is shit, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Nice try. At what? Are you telling me that he HAS earned it? Does he have to? Of course he has to earn it - NUFC isn't a charity. Those that earn it play. How else is it supposed to work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is s**** in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is s***, Jonas is s***, Shola is s***, Sami is s***, Vuckic is s***, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Unnecessary vitriol I think. Most people love Jonas and see some weaknesses in his game, I think most view Vuckic as a really exciting prospect along with Sammy. Obertan gets a massive amount of abuse which I think is unfair but I wouldn't call him shit, he has some great facets to his game and many of the pieces of a good player. Your points about Hatem and the French team are a little skewed as he's been injured for a year. I hope when he eventually does get games, either with us or with another team and plays well you come to realise that these calls for him to be included were not the obsessive, unjustified calls of a mob but the necessary pleas for a player who can improve our starting eleven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am so sick to death of this crap that gets spewed - "prodigious talent", "gifted", everyone else is s**** in comparison. He has made two, count 'em TWO appearances as a sub for France in the last 2 and a half seasons. You have to go all the way back to the heady days of 2007 if you wanted to see him get an International start (unfortunately, you wouldn't see hiom finish as he was generally subbed off at aroung 75 minutes). The guy is possibly just slightly above average but we don't know that because he can't seem to earn a place in the team. I am not part of the youtube generation that drools over tribute compilations lasting 2 minutes. All I can go by is what he does when we see him play and also what the coaches and manager deem him worthy of. It is entirely comical that Obertan is s***, Jonas is s***, Shola is s***, Sami is s***, Vuckic is s***, etc. etc. Guess what children, they are ahead of Ben Arfa because they are more deserving of a place PERIOD. Glorify him all you want but the fact is he hasn't earned it. Nice try. At what? Are you telling me that he HAS earned it? From his few appearances, his end product has been better than Obertan's. And even if it wasn't I'd still play him. I'm being an easy target here, but imo Ben Arfa deserves special treatment from the manager - he has to play without 'earning it'. Because of the horrific injury, because of the type of player that he is, because of his character and because of his pedigree. No offence to you Cannuck, but I think I've seen Ben Arfa play tens of times more than you and you just don't have an idea what you're talking about.. like that guy that didn't know he is left footed.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He's sick of all the crap that gets spewed on here, than goes on to spew massive loads of crap Which part is not true? Which part is crap? Have I missed some of his International appearances? Have I missed it where he has earned a place in the team? Please correct me if I mis-stated the actual facts. Not speculation, not hope, just facts. Which part is crap? Calling a player who is obviously very talented "slightly above average". That's utter crap mate, no matter what you have to say about him not earning this or that (which none of us know BTW because we don't see him train) slightly above average players don't do the things he can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'd have said bar the Chelsea game he's been a success in nearly every appearance. I think it's time he gets a chance against some of the lesser teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Look at how Howard Wilkinson and Alex Ferguson treated Cantona, loads of exceptions to the norms of behaviour and the club rules. Look at how QPR got the best out of Taraabt - by building the entire team around him. Sometimes you have a special player on your hands and you have to make compromises to get the best out of him, that's all part of good management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Also wonder if HBA could play in actual central midfield like Modric does for Spurs. Alongside Tiote it might be possible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If Pardew expects him to step it up in matches then he's got to realise that it's a two way street, when it comes to playing him as a secondary striker. For starters, the games he played him in were already tough enough, plus he was always going to need a run to get some match fitness but we made minimal attempts to change our style and mentality, despite what is a pretty major change to our shape. It felt like he just threw him in and said 'go on son, do something against the big boys', while the majority of our other players stood about like statues. We can't go 4-4-1-1 and play the same way that we have done so far, it becomes a far more fluid formation that requires levels of good passing and off the ball movement, with a bit of risk from the midfielders. It's the complete antithesis of the more traditional and set style we've been playing with. I think it's too late into the season to start changing it all around but I reckon we've got the players for it, to perhaps shift towards it in the summer. For now, we should stick with what we've been doing but Pards should grow a pair, stop fussing about the amount of metres every player covers and give him a try out wide, at least as a substitute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Of course he has to earn it - NUFC isn't a charity. Those that earn it play. How else is it supposed to work? What has Obertan done to earn a start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He scored a brilliant goal against Norway in his last game for France about 2 weeks before he signed for us. He didn't start that game but he looked very good when he came on. He was the best player on the pitch. He played all the second half. He didn't start the game because Blanc used 2 tactics for each half. Benzema didn't start that game as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Look at how Howard Wilkinson and Alex Ferguson treated Cantona, loads of exceptions to the norms of behaviour and the club rules. Look at how QPR got the best out of Taraabt - by building the entire team around him. Sometimes you have a special player on your hands and you have to make compromises to get the best out of him, that's all part of good management. Bobby Robson with Bellamy, you don't need to look at other clubs, we've done it in the past and done OK from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He was the best player on the pitch. He played all the second half. He didn't start the game because Blanc used 2 tactics for each half. Benzema didn't start that game as well... I know, I watched it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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