Flip Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 FFS, we have a player trying to adjust in the hardest league for touch and flair players to settle in, due to its pace, bustle and attempts to shake off its 4-4-2-ness, it can take player like HBA a season or so to settle in our football, add to that the lad broke his leg in a monumentally bad way, its not a surprise he had trouble finding his best fitness and form. I'm giving HBA as long as he needs to settle into our team, at a pace that suits him and our manager who know far more about it than us keyboard warriors, a special player is HBA and time will prove that i hope, but patience is the key to all this, from everyone would nice like. But Obe or Sammy havent settled in this league, why are they getting picked ahead. Its Pardews naive view on Ben Arfa only playing the nr10 role. Play him outwide, he cannot be worse han Obe or Sammy ffs. He can definitely be worse than Obertan to be honest. Don't understand the over the top hatred. He looks dangerous on a number of occasions pretty much every game. Sure he is frustrating as hell, but Ben Arfa isn't just going to waltz into the team and immediately be an improvement. Crazy view on stuff , I dont know what you require to be considered a good footballer in GB. But its ridiculous to say he looks dangerous and thats all. f*** anyone with pace can look dangerous, problem is he LOOKS bu IS not dangerous. He has been terrible for over 80% of this seasons games. And yes HBA would be an improvement on Obe, even if he was blind and couldnt see s***. Even Sammy is an improvemen on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hope we go through 1000 with a bang. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Scarves for Ben Arfa's career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ben Arfa created more against the best team in the league than Obe has in 80% of his matches, that alone suggests he will be an improvement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think Pardew has been put off by HBA's performance against Chelsea. He didn't seem to either click with his team-mates or create much on his own. He's really got to do one or the other. If he's going to be the maverick individual - and that seems to be the only role he knows - then he needs to achieve a higher level of form and fitness to make that work. But Pardew still sounds genuinely optimistic, so let's not lose heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 FFS, we have a player trying to adjust in the hardest league for touch and flair players to settle in, due to its pace, bustle and attempts to shake off its 4-4-2-ness, it can take player like HBA a season or so to settle in our football, add to that the lad broke his leg in a monumentally bad way, its not a surprise he had trouble finding his best fitness and form. I'm giving HBA as long as he needs to settle into our team, at a pace that suits him and our manager who know far more about it than us keyboard warriors, a special player is HBA and time will prove that i hope, but patience is the key to all this, from everyone would nice like. But Obe or Sammy havent settled in this league, why are they getting picked ahead. Its Pardews naive view on Ben Arfa only playing the nr10 role. Play him outwide, he cannot be worse han Obe or Sammy ffs. Because they aren't coming back from career threatening injuries and have more experience in our country, in Sammy's case more do with being a wide man, i know only in reserves and youth but its still at a pace not many foreign players experience. Pardew doesn't see HBA as a wide man as he's told us, so he doesn't play him or bring him on there, i agree i would rather see HBA than egghead or Sammy but Pardew sees it his way, you think a manager who works with a player everyday, sees him up close, watched him come back from that injury and you think he's naive, fair enough i guess. Also how do you know that HBA hasn't said to him "i dont want to play out wide" ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 While I can accept that HBA isn't firing on all cylinders yet, I still believe he is far more incisive than Obertan even as he is. He will hit more dangerous passes, he will strike the ball harder and he'll have the goal scoring instinct that Obertan's like will never have no matter how long he plays. Granted Obertan will work slightly harder (sort of) but he'll produce fuck all at the end of it without actually providing that much more defensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 the last sentence sums it up perfectly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 While I can accept that HBA isn't firing on all cylinders yet, I still believe he is far more incisive than Obertan even as he is. He will hit more dangerous passes, he will strike the ball harder and he'll have the goal scoring instinct that Obertan's like will never have no matter how long he plays. Granted Obertan will work slightly harder (sort of) but he'll produce fuck all at the end of it without actually providing that much more defensively. All spot on but unless we go 4-3-3, or play him off Ba, HBA isn't going to be played right midfield, thats a clear as day, Pardew has told us that and we will have to accept it for now, personally i think we will go 4-3-3, with a front 3 of HBA, Ba and it would have been Miaga, now it depends on who we sign now, or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pardew's played an absolute masterstroke tbf. By focusing on Ben Arfa's lack of work rate (as a number ten no less, don't laugh), he's managed to convince even the people who don't like Obertan that "yeah Obertan might work a bit harder/make a tackle/help the full back but Ben Arfa can..." when in fact Obertan makes Hugo Viana look like Roy Keane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pardew doesn't see HBA as a wide man HBA is a wide man tbf. He played - very well - outwide all his carreer. Pardew has played Tevez on the...left wing at West Ham. That very strange decision shocked Alfio Basile at that time, who asked both Tevez and Mascherano to quit the Hammers, "for the sake of their careers". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Got to be said, I've yet to see Obertan legitimately contribute defensively. Ben Arfa's mere presence would surely help us to defend from the front, without taking into consideration his far greater attacking ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vainsharpdad Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ben Arfa is a player who responds to feeling loved, wanted and appreciated. He's your archetypal arm-round-the-shoulder guy. He does not respond *at all* to foot up the arse. What you do is tell him he's wonderful, wind him up and point him at the pitch - you'll get a performance. Pardew has started to do some of the things fans of his previous clubs warned us about. It's a teeny bit worrying, but not causing me any palpitations just yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pardew doesn't see HBA as a wide man HBA is a wide man tbf. He played - very well - outwide all his carreer. Pardew has played Tevez on the...left wing at West Ham. That very strange decision shocked Alfio Basile at that time, who asked both Tevez and Mascherano to quit the Hammers, "for the sake of their careers". HBA was a wide man but in 4-3-3 and not a 4-4-2, he wasn't expected to do the amount of defending we do here, but as Ronaldo stated a couple of post after yours, Obertan has yet to show that side of game either, Pardew sees Obertan for his pace on the break, giving him a run of games which is surely coming to an end if Gabby doesn't get his finger out. The Tevez/West Ham thing is a ridiculous comparison to bring in, its just a stick to beat Pardew with if he does anything wrong here when picking a team, Tevez and Mascherano were bought without Pardews knowledge, their abilities had nothing to do with him leaving them out, aside the fact they were South Americans who spoke no English, players which always struggle to settle in our football, wary he was bound to be, anyway it was a power struggle between the then West Ham chairman and Pardew, the players were caught up in the middle. Whether Pardew made the wrong call on those two is a mute point now, it was him being stubborn and not being told who he can play, fair enough as he is the manager and the manager should pick his players, we've seen here what trouble (Xisco) all that causes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ben Arfa is a player who responds to feeling loved, wanted and appreciated. He's your archetypal arm-round-the-shoulder guy. He does not respond *at all* to foot up the arse. What you do is tell him he's wonderful, wind him up and point him at the pitch - you'll get a performance. Pardew has started to do some of the things fans of his previous clubs warned us about. It's a teeny bit worrying, but not causing me any palpitations just yet. Complete nonsense, there isn't a West Ham fan i've found who wanted him sacked, i live in a West Ham area, my own brother is one, again no Southampton fans were complaining about Pardew, in fact praising him for the young players he brought into the team there. Some Reading fans dislike him because he left them in a not very good way to take over at West Ham, not about their football or his decisions on that side of it. Charlton fans seem to be a little forgiving now as it turns out, they were on a slide that even Mourinho wouldn't have stopped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 HBA was a wide man but in 4-3-3 and not a 4-4-2 He was in both systems. The Tevez/West Ham thing is a ridiculous comparison to bring in, its just a stick to beat Pardew with if he does anything wrong here when picking a team, Tevez and Mascherano were bought without Pardews knowledge <<Pardew expects the arrivals of Tevez and Mascherano to take West Ham on to the next level. The Hammers boss said: "It is a massive coup for us. "I've no doubt this will give us a real chance to compete with the very best teams in the Premiership and in Europe. "I didn't have to sell West Ham to them. They knew all about our success last season and our style of play." (...) "I know West Ham fans will take to him straight away. He is in the same bracket as Paolo Di Canio in terms of what he can bring - charisma, high skill and excitement," Pardew added. "Mascherano is a different player - he brings a calming influence in possession and is an intelligent player on the pitch. "Not only am I excited by the arrivals of Carlos and Javier, but the entire squad is too, and I am sure our supporters feel the same. What a day for West Ham United. "I've already had three or four of our players on the phone. They are all very excited by the news, and I'm sure there will be a real buzz around the place when we report back for training on Tuesday morning. "I've said all along that, while signing young English players remains very important to our transfer policy, I want to take this club forward and will get talent from wherever it is available. "Our chairman Terry Brown came to me on Monday and gave me the opportunity to go for Carlos and Javier - and you don't turn down the chance to sign two world-class players." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5304708.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The West Ham fans I've spoken to really like him as well. Even my Sunderland mate said he was a good manager when he joined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 HBA was a wide man but in 4-3-3 and not a 4-4-2 He was in both systems. The Tevez/West Ham thing is a ridiculous comparison to bring in, its just a stick to beat Pardew with if he does anything wrong here when picking a team, Tevez and Mascherano were bought without Pardews knowledge <<Pardew expects the arrivals of Tevez and Mascherano to take West Ham on to the next level. The Hammers boss said: "It is a massive coup for us. "I've no doubt this will give us a real chance to compete with the very best teams in the Premiership and in Europe. "I didn't have to sell West Ham to them. They knew all about our success last season and our style of play." (...) "I know West Ham fans will take to him straight away. He is in the same bracket as Paolo Di Canio in terms of what he can bring - charisma, high skill and excitement," Pardew added. "Mascherano is a different player - he brings a calming influence in possession and is an intelligent player on the pitch. "Not only am I excited by the arrivals of Carlos and Javier, but the entire squad is too, and I am sure our supporters feel the same. What a day for West Ham United. "I've already had three or four of our players on the phone. They are all very excited by the news, and I'm sure there will be a real buzz around the place when we report back for training on Tuesday morning. "I've said all along that, while signing young English players remains very important to our transfer policy, I want to take this club forward and will get talent from wherever it is available. "Our chairman Terry Brown came to me on Monday and gave me the opportunity to go for Carlos and Javier - and you don't turn down the chance to sign two world-class players." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5304708.stm Your point ? , Sir Bobby did the same when we signed Kluivert, Souness with Luque, players they didn't ask for. He had to say what he said and he was getting two world class players so he went with it, unlike KK he didn't walk away (didn't blame KK by the way), but as it proved the relationship with his chairman fell apart, as did the teams form not helped by the chairmans interference, ask a West Ham fan what they think of Brown, it will tell you all you need to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bimpy fucking hell. Youre saying that because Javier and Carlos were bought without Pardew knowledge its not weird he didnt play them? Come on get a fucking grip. So basically it be ok for Pardew to bench Carlos if he was bought for us omorrow without Pardews knowledge? Fucking hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bimpy fucking hell. Youre saying that because Javier and Carlos were bought without Pardew knowledge its not weird he didnt play them? Come on get a fucking grip. So basically it be ok for Pardew to bench Carlos if he was bought for us omorrow without Pardews knowledge? Fucking hell. Hypothetical and would never happen, world class players i mean, Xisco i know but not exactly a world beater was he ? It might have been wrong, actually think it was myself, you play your best team whatever in my opinion, but it was a battle of wills between him and Brown, now nothing makes that right, but its about the stubborness of a man isn't it, as my brother told me at the time, it appeared that Pardew chopped and changed Tevez and Mascherano, as much a possible, settling in etc but him and many others were convinced it was his anger at the board going behind his back, his relationship with the West Ham board fell apart from that moment on. Also there have been many occasions where players are left out if it triggers appearance payments, or a new contract (Salgado today), the managers dont want to do leave their better players out but they play the Chairmans game, instead of walking away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Your point ? I think he wasn't unhappy to get those two world class players. You think that he was forced to be so excited and enthusiastic. The "without knowledge "story came from pardew himself after being sacked. He also said that those two arrivals were the main explication of his bad results. I think it's very easy to always blame the others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bimpy f***ing hell. Youre saying that because Javier and Carlos were bought without Pardew knowledge its not weird he didnt play them? Come on get a f***ing grip. So basically it be ok for Pardew to bench Carlos if he was bought for us omorrow without Pardews knowledge? f***ing hell. Hypothetical and would never happen, world class players i mean, Xisco i know but not exactly a world beater was he ? It might have been wrong, actually think it was myself, you play your best team whatever in my opinion, but it was a battle of wills between him and Brown, now nothing makes that right, but its about the stubborness of a man isn't it, as my brother told me at the time, it appeared that Pardew chopped and changed Tevez and Mascherano, as much a possible, settling in etc but him and many others were convinced it was his anger at the board going behind his back, his relationship with the West Ham board fell apart from that moment on. Also there have been many occasions where players are left out if it triggers appearance payments, or a new contract (Salgado today), the managers dont want to do leave their better players out but they play the Chairmans game, instead of walking away. Ok, then I can agree with you. I thought you were defending him for doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Got to be said, I've yet to see Obertan legitimately contribute defensively. Ben Arfa's mere presence would surely help us to defend from the front, without taking into consideration his far greater attacking ability. ...and his ability to actually find another one of our players with a pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEN BEN BEN ARFA Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Your point ? I think he wasn't unhappy to get those two world class players. You think that he was forced to be so excited and enthusiastic. The "without knowledge "story came from pardew himself after being sacked. He also said that those two arrivals were the main explication of his bad results. I think it's very easy to always blame the others. is the question I ask myself it does not use a fuse hatem Given these contradictory statement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Your point ? I think he wasn't unhappy to get those two world class players. You think that he was forced to be so excited and enthusiastic. The "without knowledge "story came from pardew himself after being sacked. He also said that those two arrivals were the main explication of his bad results. I think it's very easy to always blame the others. Its not about being unhappy mate, on the continent managers (coaches are given players by their board, thats how most used to/still work) but in this country it used to be that the manager was in total charge. Now you suddenly hit that ego, you get reactions, in Pardews case it was stubborness, you seem to think it should have been ok as the two players were world class, totally irrelevent at the time if Pardew felt he was being overuled, his ego and how things in this country were done were being walked all over to him, i'm not sure Pardew blamed the players but the board and his brakedown in relations with them, tbf to him he was undermined any West Ham fan will tell you that. You raise a good point though, what if Xisco wasn't well Xisco, what if we had signed a truly world class player, would KK have walked......? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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