quayside Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bit harsh comparing Pardew to Souness; as it is comparing Robert to Ben Arfa. Different scenarios. We currently have a manager who is not playing a skilful player because he’s not grafting enough. We also have a manager who has got performances out of players whose ability has been fairly widely questioned. In recent times performances by the likes of Best, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor (and Simpson?) have exceeded the expectations of many - Lovenkrands also? Maybe, until his injury, Saylor had grown a bit this season. Dare I say it but the real class of Coloccini has only come through since AP took over. And then there is Krul, probably it would have happened anyway as he got experience but it's happened under AP. There were many defining aspects of our time under Souness but, for me, his complete inability to manage "ordinary" players was his greatest failing. He did once say after we lost a match words to the effect that it wasn't surprising and you only had to look at the players in our side to see why we lost. I would obviously agree that he mismanaged Bellamy. But tbf I'm not so sure that Robert wasn't losing his mojo when Souness was here, the evidence being that he never did anything much for any club after he left us. I guess what I'm saying is don't write off AP's handling of HBA just yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ben Arfa is a player who responds to feeling loved, wanted and appreciated. He's your archetypal arm-round-the-shoulder guy. He does not respond *at all* to foot up the arse. What you do is tell him he's wonderful, wind him up and point him at the pitch - you'll get a performance. Pardew has started to do some of the things fans of his previous clubs warned us about. It's a teeny bit worrying, but not causing me any palpitations just yet. Complete nonsense, there isn't a West Ham fan i've found who wanted him sacked, i live in a West Ham area, my own brother is one, again no Southampton fans were complaining about Pardew, in fact praising him for the young players he brought into the team there. Some Reading fans dislike him because he left them in a not very good way to take over at West Ham, not about their football or his decisions on that side of it. Charlton fans seem to be a little forgiving now as it turns out, they were on a slide that even Mourinho wouldn't have stopped. Please show me where I said that anyone wanted him sacked. Please show me where I said that I wanted him sacked. (I don't) I just said that they warned that he would do a few odd things - selection and tactic-wise. He has. And my main point was on how to manage Ben Arfa. What you put about some fans warned us about, is complete nonsense as most fans of clubs he has managed liked him, the Tevez/Macherano thing has grown into a massive myth that he has done lots of different odd things with other clubs, as you clearly state with "fans of his previous (more than one) clubs warned us about", if you talk to West Ham fans they dont big up or go on about the Tevez/Mascherano thing either, they think Pardew was undermined and hard done by. You just repeated what you have read or seen repeated until believed which was wrong. My apologises as you are right about not saying you said anyone wanted him sacked, but also you were wrong as i never mentioned in any shape or form that you said you wanted him sacked, i'll accept your apology for that when i read it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bit harsh comparing Pardew to Souness; as it is comparing Robert to Ben Arfa. Different scenarios. We currently have a manager who is not playing a skilful player because he’s not grafting enough. We also have a manager who has got performances out of players whose ability has been fairly widely questioned. In recent times performances by the likes of Best, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor (and Simpson?) have exceeded the expectations of many - Lovenkrands also? Maybe, until his injury, Saylor had grown a bit this season. Dare I say it but the real class of Coloccini has only come through since AP took over. And then there is Krul, probably it would have happened anyway as he got experience but it's happened under AP. There were many defining aspects of our time under Souness but, for me, his complete inability to manage "ordinary" players was his greatest failing. He did once say after we lost a match words to the effect that it wasn't surprising and you only had to look at the players in our side to see why we lost. I would obviously agree that he mismanaged Bellamy. But tbf I'm not so sure that Robert wasn't losing his mojo when Souness was here, the evidence being that he never did anything much for any club after he left us. I guess what I'm saying is don't write off AP's handling of HBA just yet. Thinking about it, that's a very fair thing to say Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yep, apart from that part about Coloccini. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We also have a manager who has got performances out of players whose ability has been fairly widely questioned. In recent times performances by the likes of Best, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor (and Simpson?) have exceeded the expectations of many - Lovenkrands also? Maybe, until his injury, Saylor had grown a bit this season. Dare I say it but the real class of Coloccini has only come through since AP took over. And then there is Krul, probably it would have happened anyway as he got experience but it's happened under AP. There were many defining aspects of our time under Souness but, for me, his complete inability to manage "ordinary" players was his greatest failing. He did once say after we lost a match words to the effect that it wasn't surprising and you only had to look at the players in our side to see why we lost. I would obviously agree that he mismanaged Bellamy. But tbf I'm not so sure that Robert wasn't losing his mojo when Souness was here, the evidence being that he never did anything much for any club after he left us. I guess what I'm saying is don't write off AP's handling of HBA just yet. Most of that is debatable and has nothing to do with how Ben Arfa isn't getting games because he isn't working hard enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We also have a manager who has got performances out of players whose ability has been fairly widely questioned. In recent times performances by the likes of Best, Guthrie, Perch, Raylor (and Simpson?) have exceeded the expectations of many - Lovenkrands also? Maybe, until his injury, Saylor had grown a bit this season. Dare I say it but the real class of Coloccini has only come through since AP took over. And then there is Krul, probably it would have happened anyway as he got experience but it's happened under AP. There were many defining aspects of our time under Souness but, for me, his complete inability to manage "ordinary" players was his greatest failing. He did once say after we lost a match words to the effect that it wasn't surprising and you only had to look at the players in our side to see why we lost. I would obviously agree that he mismanaged Bellamy. But tbf I'm not so sure that Robert wasn't losing his mojo when Souness was here, the evidence being that he never did anything much for any club after he left us. I guess what I'm saying is don't write off AP's handling of HBA just yet. Most of that is debatable and has nothing to do with how Ben Arfa isn't getting games because he isn't working hard enough. I dont think i have heard Pardew use those words though, i thought he said HBA has to step up a level, does that mean harder work or more end product, mind you he's got be on the pitch to do either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yeah he needs to get upto the level of Best and Oberrunanywhere... But he'll have to do that without playing any games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yeah he needs to get upto the level of Best and Oberrunanywhere... But he'll have to do that without playing any games. Exactly......makes so sense when its put like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 HBA was a wide man but in 4-3-3 and not a 4-4-2 He was in both systems. The Tevez/West Ham thing is a ridiculous comparison to bring in, its just a stick to beat Pardew with if he does anything wrong here when picking a team, Tevez and Mascherano were bought without Pardews knowledge <<Pardew expects the arrivals of Tevez and Mascherano to take West Ham on to the next level. The Hammers boss said: "It is a massive coup for us. "I've no doubt this will give us a real chance to compete with the very best teams in the Premiership and in Europe. "I didn't have to sell West Ham to them. They knew all about our success last season and our style of play." (...) "I know West Ham fans will take to him straight away. He is in the same bracket as Paolo Di Canio in terms of what he can bring - charisma, high skill and excitement," Pardew added. "Mascherano is a different player - he brings a calming influence in possession and is an intelligent player on the pitch. "Not only am I excited by the arrivals of Carlos and Javier, but the entire squad is too, and I am sure our supporters feel the same. What a day for West Ham United. "I've already had three or four of our players on the phone. They are all very excited by the news, and I'm sure there will be a real buzz around the place when we report back for training on Tuesday morning. "I've said all along that, while signing young English players remains very important to our transfer policy, I want to take this club forward and will get talent from wherever it is available. "Our chairman Terry Brown came to me on Monday and gave me the opportunity to go for Carlos and Javier - and you don't turn down the chance to sign two world-class players." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5304708.stm Couple of weeks later he caught Masch eating an ice cream and apparenly Tevez didn't laugh at one of Pards jokes. Off to the reserves boys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 `I've found myself shouting at the screen for him to work harder, and he needs to.` me too. None should be allowed to get away with crap like shola does....nip the disease in the bud! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I dont think i have heard Pardew use those words though, i thought he said HBA has to step up a level, does that mean harder work or more end product, mind you he's got be on the pitch to do either. Can it be more end product when we currently play Best who hasn't scored since October or Obertan who has 1 assist and no goals so far this season? If it is then Pardew works with double standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I dont think i have heard Pardew use those words though, i thought he said HBA has to step up a level, does that mean harder work or more end product, mind you he's got be on the pitch to do either. Can it be more end product when we currently play Best who hasn't scored since October or Obertan who has 1 assist and no goals so far this season? If it is then Pardew works with double standards. Agreed Mick, Besty has not played much in the last 2 months though has he ?, as for Obertan......still not seeing what Pardew seems to be seeing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 if you talk to West Ham fans they dont big up or go on about the Tevez/Mascherano thing either, they think Pardew was undermined and hard done by. From a West Ham fans board : http://www.westhamonline.net/forum_flat.php?5806313|a0_c6_a0|n|1|1 Different point of views Maybe not "real" fans... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 if you talk to West Ham fans they dont big up or go on about the Tevez/Mascherano thing either, they think Pardew was undermined and hard done by. From a West Ham fans board : http://www.westhamonline.net/forum_flat.php?5806313|a0_c6_a0|n|1|1 Different point of views Maybe not "real" fans... Fair enough mate, bound to be some like, i was going by what my brother and countless West Ham fans that i know said at the time and still say now. Nearly 100% them said Geez at the end of each sentence by the way........droll cockerney wit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Nearly 100% them said Geez at the end of each sentence by the way........droll cockerney wit "Geez" ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Nearly 100% them said Geez at the end of each sentence by the way........droll cockerney wit "Geez" ?? Its a cockney term short for Geezer (bloke, man, lad etc) lovely use of the English language it certainly isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Agreed Mick, Besty has not played much in the last 2 months though has he ?, as for Obertan......still not seeing what Pardew seems to be seeing. I think it's 7 league games without a goal for Best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Agreed Mick, Besty has not played much in the last 2 months though has he ?, as for Obertan......still not seeing what Pardew seems to be seeing. I think it's 7 league games without a goal for Best. Ahh right i see.....cheers mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Agreed Mick, Besty has not played much in the last 2 months though has he ?, as for Obertan......still not seeing what Pardew seems to be seeing. I think it's 7 league games without a goal for Best. I'm pretty confident that if Best gets a goal against WBA (if he starts that is), can see him going on a canny goalscoring run. We need him to really. Once Ba heads off for the ACON, can see our frontline being Best upfront on his own with Ben Arfa in the number 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think that could work very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Agreed Mick, Besty has not played much in the last 2 months though has he ?, as for Obertan......still not seeing what Pardew seems to be seeing. I think it's 7 league games without a goal for Best. I'm pretty confident that if Best gets a goal against WBA (if he starts that is), then he'll go on a canny goalscoring run. We need him to really. Once Ba heads off for the ACON, can see our frontline being Best upfront on his own with Ben Arfa in the number 10. I hope so or it could be Shola and Lovelyhands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'm pretty confident that if Best gets a goal against WBA (if he starts that is), then he'll go on a canny goalscoring run. We need him to really. Once Ba heads off for the ACON, can see our frontline being Best upfront on his own with Ben Arfa in the number 10. We need somebody other than Ba to start scoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'm pretty confident that if Best gets a goal against WBA (if he starts that is), then he'll go on a canny goalscoring run. We need him to really. Once Ba heads off for the ACON, can see our frontline being Best upfront on his own with Ben Arfa in the number 10. We need somebody other than Ba to start scoring. Indeed. Definitely need some goals from midfield! 5 goals in 19 games, man. That's f***ing disgraceful. EDIT: Or 2 in 16. :lol: ^From the Leon Best thread (goals scored from midfield). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'm pretty confident that if Best gets a goal against WBA (if he starts that is), then he'll go on a canny goalscoring run. We need him to really. Once Ba heads off for the ACON, can see our frontline being Best upfront on his own with Ben Arfa in the number 10. We need somebody other than Ba to start scoring. Indeed. Definitely need some goals from midfield! 5 goals in 19 games, man. That's f***ing disgraceful. EDIT: Or 2 in 16. :lol: ^From the Leon Best thread (goals scored from midfield). Oi its 3 goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 No one wants to post now to be the first poster on page 1000? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts