Guest bimpy474 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 There's an archive for a reason. If you can't stand by what you say or hold your handd up when you're wrong then you should probably grow thicker skin or accept the nature of the beast. What if you change your mind as people often do. You change your view on things as more information comes to light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I find that the length's of players "poor form" gets exaggerated on this forum at times, and a certain amount of history re-writing takes place. Tiote hasn't been terrible for 2 years. He was poor on the whole last season, and average the season before with some decent performances thrown in. Certain people tend to keep repeating the same bollocks until it almost seems like it's become consensus so no one questions it. Jonas is victim to this treatment as well. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that he shouldn't be near our first 11 anymore, he has had some prolonged spells throughout his time here where he's looked a decent attacking winger (I recall reading various comments regarding an improvement in his crossing over a 6-12 month period a couple of seasons ago). I appreciate that it's an internet forum so there's going to be an element of hyperbole, especially around matchday when posts are 99% passion 1% reason, but in my time on this forum I've noticed a lot of exaggerations regarding players' form, and a brushing under the carpet of the good they've done, especially when posters appear to have an agenda with the player. Couldn't agree more. Absolutely spot on. Tiote was never as bad as people were making out. Not even close. Same goes for Jonas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Do I really have to dig out a post where I said Tiote is only worth playing when we're really up against it? Move on, Mojo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I find that the length's of players "poor form" gets exaggerated on this forum at times, and a certain amount of history re-writing takes place. Tiote hasn't been terrible for 2 years. He was poor on the whole last season, and average the season before with some decent performances thrown in. Certain people tend to keep repeating the same bollocks until it almost seems like it's become consensus so no one questions it. Jonas is victim to this treatment as well. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that he shouldn't be near our first 11 anymore, he has had some prolonged spells throughout his time here where he's looked a decent attacking winger (I recall reading various comments regarding an improvement in his crossing over a 6-12 month period a couple of seasons ago). I appreciate that it's an internet forum so there's going to be an element of hyperbole, especially around matchday when posts are 99% passion 1% reason, but in my time on this forum I've noticed a lot of exaggerations regarding players' form, and a brushing under the carpet of the good they've done, especially when posters appear to have an agenda with the player. Couldn't agree more with this, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Don't think it's sensible bringing Jonas into this discussion, like. When a winger goes over 50 games without an assist and scores 5 PL goals in 5 years I'd say the only hyperbole is coming from those defending him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Don't think it's sensible bringing Jonas into this discussion, like. When a winger goes over 50 games without an assist and scores 5 PL goals in 5 years I'd say the only hyperbole is coming from those defending him. Actually, I think Jonas is the perfect example of what I'm getting at, as is your response. Jonas' 50 odd games without getting an assist has coincided with his massive decline in his worth to the team, however he has played (according to Wiki) 177 games for us. Whilst he has blown hot and cold throughout his time with us, those who deny he hasn't had spells where he's been very useful to us either has a very short term memory, or has an agenda with the player. This applies to Tiote, Jonas, and whoever is currently shit. Just because a player is poor now, it doesn't erase all of the good they have done in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 He was pretty decent in the Championship. I won't deny that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Jonas was decent in the Championship and went through a decent spell around January in the season after we came up IIRC, but has been poor to woeful for most of his time here. Most of the Jonas/Jose partnership came from Jose being an excellent full back that helped Jonas massively, most of the time Jonas would either lose possession or he'd play a simple pass to Enrique and let him do the hard part. I said as much back then as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Jonas was decent in the Championship and went through a decent spell around January in the season after we came up IIRC, but has been poor to woeful for most of his time here. Most of the Jonas/Jose partnership came from Jose being an excellent full back that helped Jonas massively, most of the time Jonas would either lose possession or he'd play a simple pass to Enrique and let him do the hard part. I said as much back then as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Tiote's simply remembered what his limitations are. There's not a lot worse than a player who has ideas above his station and Tiote has been prone to this for quite a bit tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I still don't really buy that over-elaboration was his problem. Wrong decision-making was, and sloppy passing. Guess they're related. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I still don't really buy that over-elaboration was his problem. Wrong decision-making was, and sloppy passing. Guess they're related. His timing of the tackle and positioning were shot to bits, too. Symptoms of shit form, and a subsequent loss of confidence, for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Agreed, I think people have been a bit too quick to put everything down to 'trying too much'. Maybe because there's a Pardew quote about him being the complete midfielder or some shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 wonder what the crack was with him just trampling on people and wiping them out was all about instead of actually trying to get the football and that? maybe born of frustration at how awful he was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 He actually got less yellow cards last season than any other right? he did (wrongfully) get sent off in that period however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Agreed, I think people have been a bit too quick to put everything down to 'trying too much'. Maybe because there's a Pardew quote about him being the complete midfielder or some shit. Nah. More to the fact of him getting caught in possession while trying to Scott Parker pirouette away from trouble and attempting things he isn't capable of often, like repeatedly "shooting" from 25 yards out. It seems now that he is breaking up play and then playing a simple pass to players who have more creative skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Tiote also needed to improve his touch as he would get caught far too much with the ball as he need 2-3 touches at times, compare that to Anita where it's usually 1 touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Agreed, I think people have been a bit too quick to put everything down to 'trying too much'. Maybe because there's a Pardew quote about him being the complete midfielder or some s***. Nah. More to the fact of him getting caught in possession while trying to Scott Parker pirouette away from trouble and attempting things he isn't capable of often, like repeatedly "shooting" from 25 yards out. It seems now that he is breaking up play and then playing a simple pass to players who have more creative skills. He still does a lot of the 'pirouetting' now - it just seems to be working better at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's kind of what I mean... not sure how much his approach has changed and how much it's just him recovering some form/confidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being shit, things around him have changed as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being s***, things around him have changed as well Not willing to go there yet.... if we beat Norwich and WBA then yeah i'm on the bandwagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being s***, things around him have changed as well Not willing to go there yet.... if we beat Norwich and WBA then yeah i'm on the bandwagon. Lets take things 1 game at a time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I didn't say permanent change to be fair, merely commenting on recent games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just watching Ivory Coast game, Tiote on cruches at the end! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just watching Ivory Coast game, Tiote on cruches at the end! That should please a few, or is he good again, can't keep up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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