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Cheick Tioté (1986-2017)


madras

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Guest bimpy474

There's an archive for a reason. If you can't stand by what you say or hold your handd up when you're wrong then you should probably grow thicker skin or accept the nature of the beast.

 

What if you change your mind as people often do. You change your view on things as more information comes to light.

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I find that the length's of players "poor form" gets exaggerated on this forum at times, and a certain amount of history re-writing takes place.

 

Tiote hasn't been terrible for 2 years. He was poor on the whole last season, and average the season before with some decent performances thrown in. Certain people tend to keep repeating the same bollocks until it almost seems like it's become consensus so no one questions it.

 

Jonas is victim to this treatment as well. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that he shouldn't be near our first 11 anymore, he has had some prolonged spells throughout his time here where he's looked a decent attacking winger (I recall reading various comments regarding an improvement in his crossing over a 6-12 month period a couple of seasons ago).

 

I appreciate that it's an internet forum so there's going to be an element of hyperbole, especially around matchday when posts are 99% passion 1% reason, but in my time on this forum I've noticed a lot of exaggerations regarding players' form, and a brushing under the carpet of the good they've done, especially when posters appear to have an agenda with the player.

 

Couldn't agree more. Absolutely spot on.

 

Tiote was never as bad as people were making out.  Not even close.  Same goes for Jonas.

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Guest icemanblue

I find that the length's of players "poor form" gets exaggerated on this forum at times, and a certain amount of history re-writing takes place.

 

Tiote hasn't been terrible for 2 years. He was poor on the whole last season, and average the season before with some decent performances thrown in. Certain people tend to keep repeating the same bollocks until it almost seems like it's become consensus so no one questions it.

 

Jonas is victim to this treatment as well. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that he shouldn't be near our first 11 anymore, he has had some prolonged spells throughout his time here where he's looked a decent attacking winger (I recall reading various comments regarding an improvement in his crossing over a 6-12 month period a couple of seasons ago).

 

I appreciate that it's an internet forum so there's going to be an element of hyperbole, especially around matchday when posts are 99% passion 1% reason, but in my time on this forum I've noticed a lot of exaggerations regarding players' form, and a brushing under the carpet of the good they've done, especially when posters appear to have an agenda with the player.

 

Couldn't agree more with this, like.

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Don't think it's sensible bringing Jonas into this discussion, like. When a winger goes over 50 games without an assist and scores 5 PL goals in 5 years I'd say the only hyperbole is coming from those defending him.

 

Actually, I think Jonas is the perfect example of what I'm getting at, as is your response.

 

Jonas' 50 odd games without getting an assist has coincided with his massive decline in his worth to the team, however he has played (according to Wiki) 177 games for us. Whilst he has blown hot and cold throughout his time with us, those who deny he hasn't had spells where he's been very useful to us either has a very short term memory, or has an agenda with the player. This applies to Tiote, Jonas, and whoever is currently shit.

 

Just because a player is poor now, it doesn't erase all of the good they have done in the past.

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Jonas was decent in the Championship and went through a decent spell around January in the season after we came up IIRC, but has been poor to woeful for most of his time here. Most of the Jonas/Jose partnership came from Jose being an excellent full back that helped Jonas massively, most of the time Jonas would either lose possession or he'd play a simple pass to Enrique and let him do the hard part.

I said as much back then as well.

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Guest Roger Kint

Jonas was decent in the Championship and went through a decent spell around January in the season after we came up IIRC, but has been poor to woeful for most of his time here. Most of the Jonas/Jose partnership came from Jose being an excellent full back that helped Jonas massively, most of the time Jonas would either lose possession or he'd play a simple pass to Enrique and let him do the hard part.

I said as much back then as well.

 

:thup:

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Guest icemanblue

I still don't really buy that over-elaboration was his problem. Wrong decision-making was, and sloppy passing. Guess they're related.

 

His timing of the tackle and positioning were shot to bits, too. Symptoms of shit form, and a subsequent loss of confidence, for me.

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Agreed, I think people have been a bit too quick to put everything down to 'trying too much'. Maybe because there's a Pardew quote about him being the complete midfielder or some shit.

 

Nah.  More to the fact of him getting caught in possession while trying to Scott Parker pirouette away from trouble and attempting things he isn't capable of often,  like repeatedly "shooting" from 25 yards out. It seems now that he is breaking up play and then playing a simple pass to players who have more creative skills.

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Guest neesy111

Tiote also needed to improve his touch as he would get caught far too much with the ball as he need 2-3 touches at times, compare that to Anita where it's usually 1 touch.

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Agreed, I think people have been a bit too quick to put everything down to 'trying too much'. Maybe because there's a Pardew quote about him being the complete midfielder or some s***.

 

Nah.  More to the fact of him getting caught in possession while trying to Scott Parker pirouette away from trouble and attempting things he isn't capable of often,  like repeatedly "shooting" from 25 yards out. It seems now that he is breaking up play and then playing a simple pass to players who have more creative skills.

 

He still does a lot of the 'pirouetting' now - it just seems to be working better at the moment.

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combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball

 

like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being shit, things around him have changed as well

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combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball

 

like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being s***, things around him have changed as well

 

Not willing to go there yet.... if we beat Norwich and WBA then yeah i'm on the bandwagon.

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Guest neesy111

combined with more options and movement around him than he's arguably ever had, before he'd turn and there was nothing, now he's got cabaye/sissoko/santon/debuchy/mym as a minimum all looking to provide an option for him, all confident and all comfortable on the ball

 

like i was saying in the other thread on HBA, it's not just suddenly that tiote stopped being s***, things around him have changed as well

 

Not willing to go there yet.... if we beat Norwich and WBA then yeah i'm on the bandwagon.

 

:thup:

 

Lets take things 1 game at a time.

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