Kevin Nolan

[Guest VegasToon]

That doesn't even make sense, posts from last season have no relevance whatsoever to the current discussion. Primarily because the goal tally you mention didn't exist as we were in a different league and it hadn't happened yet...

 

Personally I wouldn't be averse to Nolan being replaced in the first team as despite his impressive goal tally this year I still don't think he offers enough generally as a player. His leadership is very valuable, but ultimately quality reigns. If Barton doesn't leave, I would imagine Cabaye's arrival puts Nolan's place under serious threat (though I'll openly admit I haven't seen him play).

 

I certainly wouldn't like to see Nolan leave the club this summer however. He still has plenty to offer on and off the pitch.

 

+1

 

I would like to see how this year goes before offering an extension.  

[Guest magpie99]

Better and younger than 25 year old Enrique. Righto.

The lad at Celtic is better and a lot younger than Jose, Dave. I am sure that you will find a lot of younger better players than Jose around europe if you looked hard enough., Anyway, judging by his recent performances for the club, he hasnt really pulled up any trees, has he?

 

Also, if WHU came along and offered 4 million for Nolan, I would bite their hands off. Wouildnt you?

[Wullie]

Better and younger than 25 year old Enrique. Righto.

The lad at Celtic is better and a lot younger than Jose, Dave. I am sure that you will find a lot of younger better players than Jose around europe if you looked hard enough., Anyway, judging by his recent performances for the club, he hasnt really pulled up any trees, has he?

 

Also, if WHU came along and offered 4 million for Nolan, I would bite their hands off. Wouildnt you?

 

3 months.

[Guest VegasToon]

Better and younger than 25 year old Enrique. Righto.

The lad at Celtic is better and a lot younger than Jose, Dave. I am sure that you will find a lot of younger better players than Jose around europe if you looked hard enough., Anyway, judging by his recent performances for the club, he hasnt really pulled up any trees, has he?

 

Also, if WHU came along and offered 4 million for Nolan, I would bite their hands off. Wouildnt you?

 

[Guest magpie99]

Still younger........LOL

[Wullie]

Find it hilarious that you think you can judge a defender on a season in Scottish football. I've seen Enrique go up against some of the best players in the world and come out on top. Who has really tested the Celtic lad defensively this season, Jock McTaggart at Dunfermline or Hamish C. Nesbitt at St Johnstone?

[Ronaldo]

He's not a patch on Jose.

[Guest VegasToon]

Find it hilarious that you think you can judge a defender on a season in Scottish football. I've seen Enrique go up against some of the best players in the world and come out on top. Who has really tested the Celtic lad defensively this season, Jock McTaggart at Dunfermline or Hamish C. Nesbitt at St Johnstone?

 

Wullie, he has to be fishing. 

[Guest magpie99]

Well, I am basing much of my opinion on the fact that Enrique clearly doesnt want to remain at NUFC.

 

Would you rather keep a player for the remaining year of his contract, who is disinterested and let him go for free next year, or would you rather buy a player who has the potential to improve in a better league with better players who is interested in playing for the club.

 

I know what I would do. Anyone who says any different might be accused of losing the plot.

[Tisd09]

Well, I am basing much of my opinion on the fact that Enrique clearly doesnt want to remain at NUFC.

 

Would you rather keep a player for the remaining year of his contract, who is disinterested and let him go for free next year, or would you rather buy a player who has the potential to improve in a better league with better players who is interested in playing for the club.

 

I know what I would do. Anyone who says any different might be accused of losing the plot.

 

Its your opinion its fact.

 

Enrique is an ambitious player he wants to player European football, I am pretty confident if somehow we made Europa League next season then we'd have a great chance of keeping him, but we haven't and as much as I hate to say it, at the moment there are better prospects out there for him.

 

 

IMO he is not irreplaceable, but its not going to be easy or cheap to find a better replacement. Given other areas of the team are crying out for improvements the ideal scenario for us is for him to sign a new contract.

[Cajun]

Jock McTaggart or Hamish C Nesbitt

[TRon]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was about as effective as he is now, actually... but yeah, this was one of my guesses for the MDouglas 'treason' - Captain Nolan thinking about going/agreeing to go.

 

Fwiw, I can't imagine he or anyone would expect him to be given a 4 year £50k p/w contract - I'd bet it would've come with a healthy cut. As for why it's happening (IF it's happening), I believe that it's finally properly dawning on the players that 'this group of lads' is meant to be disbanded, not evolved.

 

or maybe "this group of lads" can't expect to earn bonus years based on being a "group of lads" and should accept that we are evolving.

 

I'd reckon 80 is more right than wrong. The old guard are to be put out to pasture. If the new breed are of the Tiote, Arfa, Cabaye ilk I can't say I'm too concerned, but it has the potential to go pear shaped I'm sure.

 

The old guard aren't being put out to pasture as far as I can tell. They just aren't getting inflated deals based on their "group of lads" valuation criteria.

 

To me, it's pretty clear these deals have revolved around security of position - not much to do with quick pay hikes. It's blatant sense, following on from the past 6 months, that no one's position at the club is safe, and so anyone with longer term plans here will be looking to shore themselves up - looking for some evidence that they're not about to be chucked at short notice. It's proven that the Board know how to extend an already long deal - see Tiote - so an unwillingness to do so with any other player who is ordinarily seen as an important member (like the captain...) is a sign he's actually not highly valued and liable to be ousted.

 

Have to say, why you seem to have disdain for the group of lads thing seeing as it was the main thing that kept us up I don't know. I'll grant you they shouldn't be given wildly large and long contracts but I haven't seen anything to seriously suggest they want them, but I can definitely see how offering security and a sense of value to bulwarks of the club's recent success - and likely future success for me - would help keep the wagon rolling and make sure the Cabayes aren't going to turn out like the Vianas.

 

I don't have disdain for the group of lads, I just don't rate Nolan as a player at Premier level and never have, at least not for us if we want to move on. I take your point about a bunch of new foreigners could turn out to be Vianas, but IMO if you buy quality then any manager worth his salt should be able to fashion a decent team. We have a fairly strong defensive base with Tiote as insurance, so adding some attacking flair is a risk worth taking IMO. If we can afford to keep Nolan on an extended contract to sit on the bench as well great, but I understand if we can't.

[Cronky]

Despite all the talk about Nolan's contract being re-negotiated, I was struggling to find any direct evidence of that. The idea didn't make sense because a) the contract still had 2 years to run b) There were other players (Jonas, Colo) whose contracts would expire at the same time, but where there seemed to be no talks and c) Nolan has done a good job for us, but if we want to improve we need to add pace and mobility to the midfield.

[Optimistic Nut]

Yep if he's still first choice at 30 there's something the matter. Would be good if he stayed about the place after that but to give him a new contract now which would give him a pretty big salary beyond that wouldn't make much sense imo.

[Optimistic Nut]

Plus the squad evolves. Keegan had no problems letting the likes of Venison and Bracewell leave despite their influence as the squad improved past their ability.

[BottledDog]

Outside of having a contract for another 2 seasons, he's in limbo!? Give over.

[Dave]

Struggled to find direct evidence; what, apart from the big interview he gave the local press about it?

[Cronky]

Struggled to find direct evidence; what, apart from the big interview he gave the local press about it?

 

Yeah, I can see it now. I did ask about this before and no-one responded.

 

This now looks like the club have actually changed their minds. Either that, or the two parties weren't nearly as close to an agreement as Nolan was thinking or saying. We may have embarrassed the player here.

 

I've often wondered about the situation - which I think is mirrored at Chelsea - where the Chairman / Chief Exec doesn't wield much real power, and the owner is only involved part-time. It seems a recipe for confused decision-making.

[TRon]

Struggled to find direct evidence; what, apart from the big interview he gave the local press about it?

 

Yeah, I can see it now. I did ask about this before and no-one responded.

 

This now looks like the club have actually changed their minds. Either that, or the two parties weren't nearly as close to an agreement as Nolan was thinking or saying. We may have embarrassed the player here.

 

I've often wondered about the situation - which I think is mirrored at Chelsea - where the Chairman / Chief Exec doesn't wield much real power, and the owner is only involved part-time. It seems a recipe for confused decision-making.

 

How have we embarrassed the player? He was offered a contract extension as far as I read it. If you delay signing there is always the chance that the deal might not stay on the table if the situation changes. Don't see what either party has done wrong here.

[Thespence]

The big earners who didn't leave/flee on relegation are being mopped up & dealt with now.

[80]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was about as effective as he is now, actually... but yeah, this was one of my guesses for the MDouglas 'treason' - Captain Nolan thinking about going/agreeing to go.

 

Fwiw, I can't imagine he or anyone would expect him to be given a 4 year £50k p/w contract - I'd bet it would've come with a healthy cut. As for why it's happening (IF it's happening), I believe that it's finally properly dawning on the players that 'this group of lads' is meant to be disbanded, not evolved.

 

or maybe "this group of lads" can't expect to earn bonus years based on being a "group of lads" and should accept that we are evolving.

 

I'd reckon 80 is more right than wrong. The old guard are to be put out to pasture. If the new breed are of the Tiote, Arfa, Cabaye ilk I can't say I'm too concerned, but it has the potential to go pear shaped I'm sure.

 

The old guard aren't being put out to pasture as far as I can tell. They just aren't getting inflated deals based on their "group of lads" valuation criteria.

 

To me, it's pretty clear these deals have revolved around security of position - not much to do with quick pay hikes. It's blatant sense, following on from the past 6 months, that no one's position at the club is safe, and so anyone with longer term plans here will be looking to shore themselves up - looking for some evidence that they're not about to be chucked at short notice. It's proven that the Board know how to extend an already long deal - see Tiote - so an unwillingness to do so with any other player who is ordinarily seen as an important member (like the captain...) is a sign he's actually not highly valued and liable to be ousted.

 

Have to say, why you seem to have disdain for the group of lads thing seeing as it was the main thing that kept us up I don't know. I'll grant you they shouldn't be given wildly large and long contracts but I haven't seen anything to seriously suggest they want them, but I can definitely see how offering security and a sense of value to bulwarks of the club's recent success - and likely future success for me - would help keep the wagon rolling and make sure the Cabayes aren't going to turn out like the Vianas.

 

I don't have disdain for the group of lads, I just don't rate Nolan as a player at Premier level and never have, at least not for us if we want to move on. I take your point about a bunch of new foreigners could turn out to be Vianas, but IMO if you buy quality then any manager worth his salt should be able to fashion a decent team. We have a fairly strong defensive base with Tiote as insurance, so adding some attacking flair is a risk worth taking IMO. If we can afford to keep Nolan on an extended contract to sit on the bench as well great, but I understand if we can't.

 

For the record, as much as I disagree with you about Nolan's value to us (given our finances/squad members), I wasn't saying you have to want Nolan around by law if you want to retain the 'lads' vibe, so what you say is fair enough by me. In fact, half the point of it for me is that it used to be bigger than any one individual and could potentially have outlasted them all at this club and been passed on.

 

With regards managers worth their salt fashioning decent teams with quality players, I've seen managers fail at that more often than not. And I include Alan Pardew among them (Tevez and Mascherano...). In fact, it's pretty much the thing that divides the great from the vast majority who oversee relegations and failures at some time or other, if not repeatedly.

[Cronky]

Struggled to find direct evidence; what, apart from the big interview he gave the local press about it?

 

Yeah, I can see it now. I did ask about this before and no-one responded.

 

This now looks like the club have actually changed their minds. Either that, or the two parties weren't nearly as close to an agreement as Nolan was thinking or saying. We may have embarrassed the player here.

 

I've often wondered about the situation - which I think is mirrored at Chelsea - where the Chairman / Chief Exec doesn't wield much real power, and the owner is only involved part-time. It seems a recipe for confused decision-making.

 

How have we embarrassed the player? He was offered a contract extension as far as I read it. If you delay signing there is always the chance that the deal might not stay on the table if the situation changes. Don't see what either party has done wrong here.

 

Well I'm not at all sure whether we've embarrassed him, but I'm very confused about what's been going on. If it panned out how you said, then the club are entitled to withdraw the offer. But Nolan seemed to be saying that signing the contract was pretty much a formality - maybe there was more to it than that.

 

On the same issue, I never thought it was a great idea for Barton and Nolan to be going round to supporters' talk-ins, talking about the owner, the manager and other players in that free and easy way. It was like they thought they had some special status, as the leaders of the 'group of lads' whose spirit had led to our revival. They also seemed to be acting like they'd be doing the club some tremendous favour by signing their new contracts - as though it would mean them giving the Board a vote of confidence rather than the other way round.

 

I don't think all that would have gone down well with Ashley. Or possibly some of the other players.

[Dave]

Generally agree with that like. Very interesting to read for us, but it's not like it would be difficult for the club to find out what they were saying. Bit naive.

[80]

On the same issue, I never thought it was a great idea for Barton and Nolan to be going round to supporters' talk-ins, talking about the owner, the manager and other players in that free and easy way. It was like they thought they had some special status, as the leaders of the 'group of lads' whose spirit had led to our revival. They also seemed to be acting like they'd be doing the club some tremendous favour by signing their new contracts - as though it would mean them giving the Board a vote of confidence rather than the other way round.

 

I don't think all that would have gone down well with Ashley. Or possibly some of the other players.

 

1) It would have, for me. Fact is, whatever someone might say about a generic footballer, I trust them (Nolan especially, given everything that's ever been said about him) to look after my/our interests vastly more than the Board. Again re: Nolan, he's always been pretty respectful towards Ashley, in public and private - gone out of his way to say positive things about him, which I've taken to be olive branch-style empathy and professional, for better or for worse.

 

2) Remains to be seen, but I doubt it.

[tmonkey]

I reckon some of the players hate Nolan. Reason being he's the type of twat we've all played with who always shouts at other people whenever a mistake is made, even if he's the one who made it ("why'd you pass the ball to my fucking feet at a reasoanble pace you cunt, didn't you see there was an opposition player 10 yards away from me??"), yet there's noone to give him an earful whenever he cocks up (which he does alot, especially when letting opposition midfielders drift by). Bound to have some players resent him.

 

Same applies for Danny Simpson, who seems to be happy to give other people an earful and reacts aggressively whenever he's blamed for making a mistake.

 

Hate twats like that, they try to make themselves look good by criticising others and effectively create a bullying environment on the pitch where certain players get picked on. It's just a facade to cover for their own shitness. It's not a coincidence that most top teams don't have twats like these in their lineups (Roy Keane maybe being an exception, even then he rarely shouted at his teammates like these twats do).