Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too. Unfortunately, he signed a contract and instantly - in his own mind - became some sort of Jose Mourinho - Barry White hybrid, and it all went massively wong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Roeder flopping as permanent boss was one of the most dreadfully predictable episodes in our recent years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too. All Shearer's work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes. Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones. I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here. Edit: Regarding Ashley running the club as a business - your views came across on the forum as being tinged with more than a touch of pride - "I defy you to find..." seems like a proud statement to me! I find it relevant as I see Pardew's initial acceptance of the job as being tantamount to, and evidence of complicity/condoning how Ashley runs the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Shearer's 'work' wasn't in action till 3 years later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too. Roeder flopping as permanent boss was one of the most dreadfully predictable episodes in our recent years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 A lot of what you're saying is entirely baseless imo like, quayside. The stuff about Hughton potentially being more of a pushover than Pardew when it comes to transfers when we have clear examples of Pardew being a total pushover (and more to the point a liar or at the very least a naive prat) when it comes to transfers, and no such examples for Hughton. Then in the same breath suggesting Hughton wouldn't have got as much out of that squad as Pardew when there's nothing to suggest that this is the case. You're presuming the most negative scenario for Hughton and looking at Pardew from some perspective I don't understand. Just because it's working out alright in September doesn't mean we were right to pluck this guy from League 1 when we were going fine as it was. As usual I hope Pardew proves me wrong and the team get my full support despite what I think, but I definitely still have my reservations about this guy and think we played better stuff under Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes. Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones. I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here. Eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes. Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones. I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here. Eh? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9268294.stm Not gonna get into it with you again about Pardew being in charge for this one. Believe the post-match interview from people within the club more than the BBC report or what the teamsheet said the manager was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hughton would've pissed away 2 points like he did 2 weeks earlier against Chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It doesn't really matter if we were 8th or 12th, we were well clear of trouble with some great results/performances under our belt and Hughton deserved the chance to see his work through. Was a fucking rank decision to get rid of him and I still stand by that, a whole list of fairly mediocre results since then won't change my mind about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hughton would've pissed away 2 points like he did 2 weeks earlier against Chelsea. Yeah, imagine throwing away a one goal lead to a Champions' League club. Or worse, a three goal lead against West Brom at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'd be genuinely interested to hear what people think are Pardew's best performances/results so far btw, I'm really trying to understand this. Under Hughton we were a very inconsistent side in our first season back up, but we had a few games where we dominated the opposition which suggested we were becoming a side that could beat anyone on our day. In that instance, consistency is the next step. When have we dominated a game under Pardew? I can't think of many examples. West Ham at home springs to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'd be genuinely interested to hear what people think are Pardew's best performances/results so far btw, I'm really trying to understand this. Under Hughton we were a very inconsistent side in our first season back up, but we had a few games where we dominated the opposition which suggested we were becoming a side that could beat anyone on our day. In that instance, consistency is the next step. When have we dominated a game under Pardew? I can't think of many examples. West Ham at home springs to mind. I was really, really impressed by our last game against Villa tbh. It was Villa though. They showed all the frailty and lack of bite in midfield they showed last season (when we knocked six past them). Hope it continues. That aside, I'm struggling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 A lot of what you're saying is entirely baseless imo like, quayside. The stuff about Hughton potentially being more of a pushover than Pardew when it comes to transfers when we have clear examples of Pardew being a total pushover (and more to the point a liar or at the very least a naive prat) when it comes to transfers, and no such examples for Hughton. Then in the same breath suggesting Hughton wouldn't have got as much out of that squad as Pardew when there's nothing to suggest that this is the case. You're presuming the most negative scenario for Hughton and looking at Pardew from some perspective I don't understand. Just because it's working out alright in September doesn't mean we were right to pluck this guy from League 1 when we were going fine as it was. As usual I hope Pardew proves me wrong and the team get my full support despite what I think, but I definitely still have my reservations about this guy and think we played better stuff under Hughton. Good post, spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 We look more organised under Pardew. We looked more dangerous under Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm still undecided about Pardew, it's very easy to excuse all the bad things of his reign on Ashley, but that's also not that unreasonable. He seems reasonably competant, got our defence working pretty well, but he hasn't had to rebuild that. I like he wants pace, we were in danger of becoming fatally sluggish last season, and we'd have got slower this season if we hadn't had this influx of youth. I like that he has struck a fair chord between not rushing tactical changes so as to leave players not knowing what they're doing, rather than switching formation every week, and also making the changes, we do seem to be shifting to a much more midfield orientated team. I also don't know if he's the kind of manager who will when down at halftime make a bold change to take the game back. Has he really had to make any bold decisions since he came in? His half time team talk at arsenal last season must have been good to be fair to him. There is a worrying slickness though, he always seems to say the right things, he's competent but yet to prove himself someone who will drag us long way up the table. However of course getting rid of him would only do damage, and definately no cause, but the long term contract may be a mistake. I wonder if he's going to prove a great manager to rebuild the team over the next few seasons, but then we may want someone to then get us to achieve better things. I also don't know yet what he's like when things are really bad. If we pick up some injuries and start on a bad run, he needs to be able to turn us around...before he gets sacked only making things worse... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I have to hold my hands up and give Pardew massive respect for the 4-4 result versus Arsenal and the 2nd half performance but even then you're ignoring the 1st half shambles and the fact that that wouldn't have happened at any other ground in the country imo, the result owed a lot to our fans being massively radged up at a perfect time in the game. But I do feel harsh saying that because Pardew definitely deserves a great deal of credit for whatever he said at half time, there's no doubt about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannybagoftudor Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 wtf - perhaps he's just trying to do a professioanal job with the tools at his disposal -too much being read into what is essentially a game. fwiw - He's doing ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, too much talking about this football lark like, does more harm than good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Just read a stat that we've only won just over 50% of headers inside our own box, the lowest in the league. So theres still room for improvement defensively, Krul/opp strikers missing probably is coming into it a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 From both managers PL evidence at NUFC I don't think there's much between Pardew and Hughton. Both average. Hughton gave me some very good memories as an NUFC fan, the 6-0, the 5-1, the away win at Arsenal. However for those games there was also the absolute abortion that was WBA away, the disgraceful Bolton game, Blackpool at home, Bolton away, Blackburn at home. I know you expect inconsistencies as a newly promoted team, but some of those displays were beyond turgid. Pardew so far has been pretty much the same in terms of return, just a little bit less of the rollercoaster. Steady but not spectacular, but he did decent enough considering he was minus a £35 million striker for the end of last season. I loved Hughton the man and was disgusted to see him sacked, but I'm not entirely convinced on his long term managerial capabilities. I'm not convinced with Pardew either, but I'm willing to see what happens over the course of this season. Many would argue that all good sides are built from the back and so far we seem solid defensively, which is something to build on. I love seeing us playing attacking football but similarly it's a breath of fresh air to see us secure at the back for once. We've got ourselves a good position in the league, still in the cup and still unbeaten. With Ben Arfa back, Marveaux being eased in and hopefully the introduction of Santon we might get more of an idea whether Pardew has more of a plan than just 'keep it tight and grind out the result' which has typified us so far. It's a test for him and the players and I'm interested to see how we do without getting carried away on Pardew's virtues as a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Chelsea at home was the most negative performance I've seen in years at SJP. We had no intention of going for a 2nd goal, and Hughton paid the price. Getting thrashed 3-1 by West Brom helped, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 From both managers PL evidence at NUFC I don't think there's much between Pardew and Hughton. Both average. Hughton gave me some very good memories as an NUFC fan, the 6-0, the 5-1, the away win at Arsenal. However for those games there was also the absolute abortion that was WBA away, the disgraceful Bolton game, Blackpool at home, Bolton away, Blackburn at home. I know you expect inconsistencies as a newly promoted team, but some of those displays were beyond turgid. Pardew so far has been pretty much the same in terms of return, just a little bit less of the rollercoaster. Steady but not spectacular, but he did decent enough considering he was minus a £35 million striker for the end of last season. I loved Hughton the man and was disgusted to see him sacked, but I'm not entirely convinced on his long term managerial capabilities. I'm not convinced with Pardew either, but I'm willing to see what happens over the course of this season. Many would argue that all good sides are built from the back and so far we seem solid defensively, which is something to build on. I love seeing us playing attacking football but similarly it's a breath of fresh air to see us secure at the back for once. We've got ourselves a good position in the league, still in the cup and still unbeaten. With Ben Arfa back, Marveaux being eased in and hopefully the introduction of Santon we might get more of an idea whether Pardew has more of a plan than just 'keep it tight and grind out the result' which has typified us so far. It's a test for him and the players and I'm interested to see how we do without getting carried away on Pardew's virtues as a manager. Agree 100% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Chelsea at home was the most negative performance I've seen in years at SJP. We had no intention of going for a 2nd goal, and Hughton paid the price. Getting thrashed 3-1 by West Brom helped, of course. Despite what was a good point in that game, it did feel quite a cold performance. Not like our effort at home to Man United or the other fights we put up against the bigger teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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