QBG Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Agree the high line was a disaster, but don't think he got much else wrong last night, the majority of the players just didn't perform. The subs he made were the right ones, we instantly looked more threatening when Ben Arfa came on for Best. Shola for Obertan made sense in theory but obviously the lazy git did next to nothing in his time on the field. If the Santon sub was injury then I agree about the subs, but HBA should have started and we should never have attempted such a high line against WBA's rapid frontline. The style of play was also bad, but whether that is what Pardew wanted or whether the players were doing their own thing is unknown. Yeah the Santon sub was a precautionary one for a knee injury apparently. Agree though playing a high line against a team that attacks with pace when our fastest defender is out for the season makes little to no sense. I understand wanting to be on the front foot at home but it played right into their hands. Ben Arfa should have started really, and has someone else has suggested playing Vuckic in Best's role may have been an idea, though Pardew wasn't to know Best would play as bad as he did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yeah the Santon sub was a precautionary one for a knee injury apparently. Agree though playing a high line against a team that attacks with pace when our fastest defender is out for the season makes little to no sense. I understand wanting to be on the front foot at home but it played right into their hands. Ben Arfa should have started really, and has someone else has suggested playing Vuckic in Best's role may have been an idea, though Pardew wasn't to know Best would play as bad as he did. Best was as bad against Swansea as he was last night, Pardew should have seen that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yeah the Santon sub was a precautionary one for a knee injury apparently. Agree though playing a high line against a team that attacks with pace when our fastest defender is out for the season makes little to no sense. I understand wanting to be on the front foot at home but it played right into their hands. Ben Arfa should have started really, and has someone else has suggested playing Vuckic in Best's role may have been an idea, though Pardew wasn't to know Best would play as bad as he did. Best was as bad against Swansea as he was last night, Pardew should have seen that. He won more headers v Swansea but that was probably because he was playing against a inferior centre-half. Though a corpse would have been more effective than what Shola has been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He won more headers v Swansea but that was probably because he was playing against a inferior centre-half. Though a corpse would have been more effective than what Shola has been. He won 8 headers against Swansea, not one of those went to a Newcastle player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBG Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yeah the Santon sub was a precautionary one for a knee injury apparently. Agree though playing a high line against a team that attacks with pace when our fastest defender is out for the season makes little to no sense. I understand wanting to be on the front foot at home but it played right into their hands. Ben Arfa should have started really, and has someone else has suggested playing Vuckic in Best's role may have been an idea, though Pardew wasn't to know Best would play as bad as he did. Best was as bad against Swansea as he was last night, Pardew should have seen that. I thought his movement was good against Swansea, but he was virtually non-existent last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the fucking ball on the ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the fucking ball on the ground. He needs to drop Perch for that to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the f***ing ball on the ground. I can't see why he's stuck with the system and Personnel as the wheels were always going to come off the way that we were going. He should have been proactive instead of waiting until his hand was forced before changing anything. Even last night he was looking lost on the touchline and only brought on Ben Arfa when the crowd started chanting his name and by doing so having a go at Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Not really sure what Pardew is upto. I mean the basics were wrong from the start and that isn't even taking into account the turgid and unimaginative selection we are having to put up with. We are playing a team with two of the fastest forwards in the PL and so we kindly lay on a high line that was bordering on the half way line, which is normally suicidal and proved so today. Every time they broke (even with just two of them it looked like they might score). THIS 442 leaves yawning gaps in the center of the park and a a weakend spine (no Cabaye no Taylor) leaves the side who are wanting to push on at home exposed - it will everytime. This misjudgement is magnifyied if YOU KEEP GIVING cheap posession away with long balls from the back - which we did as panic set in more often than not...THE TEMPTATION IS THERE OF COURSE CAUSE THE TWO BIG STRIKERS look like and enticing target till the ball is in the air and the defence closes down/steps up. Like SWANSEA more often than not WBA hogged the middle when we had the ball and we did have the ball for spells but there seemed to be no plan other than give it to someone to run up the side and throw it into the middle - that is basically the extent of what we did in the last two games. It would have been worse but for Ba manufacturing goals out of thin air. Pardew who I didn't really want to over criticise is beginning to lose the plot and seems unware that other sides have watched us a few times and know we have NO PLAN B whatsoever/can't play through the middle/ or HBA IS NOT ON THE PITCH. Stop starting Best and Obertan and let the free midfielder (normally Cabaye/tonight Vukic) come to the edge of the box or interchange passes so the whole team can come up while we retain posession. What are we doing? Just throwing it in from the side or the back over the head of the midfield and risking losing posession every time...It's really tedious to watch. The season isn't ruined yet but if Pardew doesn't have the nous or guts to change it and play one striker it's gonna carry on like this. Two home games against sides we should be beating down the drain. Unforgiveable. it's not so much 4-4-2 thats the problem (even though i've thought since before the season kicked off that we shouldn't play that to get the best from what we have) it's the fact that we play it so rigidly with so little movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Not really sure what Pardew is upto. I mean the basics were wrong from the start and that isn't even taking into account the turgid and unimaginative selection we are having to put up with. We are playing a team with two of the fastest forwards in the PL and so we kindly lay on a high line that was bordering on the half way line, which is normally suicidal and proved so today. Every time they broke (even with just two of them it looked like they might score). THIS 442 leaves yawning gaps in the center of the park and a a weakend spine (no Cabaye no Taylor) leaves the side who are wanting to push on at home exposed - it will everytime. This misjudgement is magnifyied if YOU KEEP GIVING cheap posession away with long balls from the back - which we did as panic set in more often than not...THE TEMPTATION IS THERE OF COURSE CAUSE THE TWO BIG STRIKERS look like and enticing target till the ball is in the air and the defence closes down/steps up. Like SWANSEA more often than not WBA hogged the middle when we had the ball and we did have the ball for spells but there seemed to be no plan other than give it to someone to run up the side and throw it into the middle - that is basically the extent of what we did in the last two games. It would have been worse but for Ba manufacturing goals out of thin air. Pardew who I didn't really want to over criticise is beginning to lose the plot and seems unware that other sides have watched us a few times and know we have NO PLAN B whatsoever/can't play through the middle/ or HBA IS NOT ON THE PITCH. Stop starting Best and Obertan and let the free midfielder (normally Cabaye/tonight Vukic) come to the edge of the box or interchange passes so the whole team can come up while we retain posession. What are we doing? Just throwing it in from the side or the back over the head of the midfield and risking losing posession every time...It's really tedious to watch. The season isn't ruined yet but if Pardew doesn't have the nous or guts to change it and play one striker it's gonna carry on like this. Two home games against sides we should be beating down the drain. Unforgiveable. it's not so much 4-4-2 thats the problem (even though i've thought since before the season kicked off that we shouldn't play that to get the best from what we have) it's the fact that we play it so rigidly with so little movement. Yeah that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Note to Alan: It's we were, not we was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Note to Alan: It's we were, not we was. Aye this p***es me off every week! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yes Pardew needs to change things around, yes there are alot of people over-reacting... again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Shola for Obertan made sense in theory but obviously the lazy git did next to nothing in his time on the field. The problem is that Pardew asked Shola to play like Cabaye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the f***ing ball on the ground. I can't see why he's stuck with the system and Personnel as the wheels were always going to come off the way that we were going. He should have been proactive instead of waiting until his hand was forced before changing anything. Even last night he was looking lost on the touchline and only brought on Ben Arfa when the crowd started chanting his name and by doing so having a go at Pardew. In theory I suppose you're right, ideally he would have acted earlier. But at the same time we had three almost impossible games and then lost most of our defence for the next couple, it's been a tough time for other reasons than Pardew's errors. Hopefuly he'll now realise that the likes of Santon and Ben Arfa must be fixtures in the team, and that he needs to find a way to stop us playing such direct passes all the time. Cabaye's return should help with that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEN BEN BEN ARFA Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I do not know or will Pardew for a while But another question comes to my mind es that he knows improvisation it works sometimes and sometimes not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the f***ing ball on the ground. I can't see why he's stuck with the system and Personnel as the wheels were always going to come off the way that we were going. He should have been proactive instead of waiting until his hand was forced before changing anything. Even last night he was looking lost on the touchline and only brought on Ben Arfa when the crowd started chanting his name and by doing so having a go at Pardew. In theory I suppose you're right, ideally he would have acted earlier. But at the same time we had three almost impossible games and then lost most of our defence for the next couple, it's been a tough time for other reasons than Pardew's errors. Hopefuly he'll now realise that the likes of Santon and Ben Arfa must be fixtures in the team, and that he needs to find a way to stop us playing such direct passes all the time. Cabaye's return should help with that too. one of the things has to be movement from the wide players. there is no reason why they can't look for space inside, or alongside or dare i say it, beyond the forward(s). even if they don't get the ball they drag the oppo creating gaps elsewhere. what we currently have is 2 wide players who's lack of movement constricts our game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Agree with that too madras, the lack of off-ball running from the wingers is annoying (although Obertan does it a bit). Hopefully with two proper fullbacks (if you count Simpson) the wingers will feel confident in committing themselves forward a bit more. Especially important to give HBA more options than just Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Challenge for Pardew now, good managers have to be adaptable. I can see why he stuck with the system and personnel that did so well for him at the start of the season, but now is the time to change. Get HBA in from the start, ideally in a 451, and force the players to keep the f***ing ball on the ground. I can't see why he's stuck with the system and Personnel as the wheels were always going to come off the way that we were going. He should have been proactive instead of waiting until his hand was forced before changing anything. Even last night he was looking lost on the touchline and only brought on Ben Arfa when the crowd started chanting his name and by doing so having a go at Pardew. In theory I suppose you're right, ideally he would have acted earlier. But at the same time we had three almost impossible games and then lost most of our defence for the next couple, it's been a tough time for other reasons than Pardew's errors. Hopefuly he'll now realise that the likes of Santon and Ben Arfa must be fixtures in the team, and that he needs to find a way to stop us playing such direct passes all the time. Cabaye's return should help with that too. one of the things has to be movement from the wide players. there is no reason why they can't look for space inside, or alongside or dare i say it, beyond the forward(s). even if they don't get the ball they drag the oppo creating gaps elsewhere. what we currently have is 2 wide players who's lack of movement constricts our game. Everything in our game seems to be about prioritizing our shape while defending, which means that these wide players can't really drift when we attack because they won't be able to get back into their positions quickly enough if we lose the ball. We need players to cover for each other and to show more experience in defence, and inventiveness and creativity in attack. And we need Pardew to not be so conservative in his game plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We did benefit from our solid shape at the beginning of the season, but tough games combined with losing important players has made us lose faith in it a bit. Still not sure whether we actually should change it, or just stick with it and grind ourselves back into form. Interesting one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We did benefit from our solid shape at the beginning of the season, but tough games combined with losing important players has made us lose faith in it a bit. Still not sure whether we actually should change it, or just stick with it and grind ourselves back into form. Interesting one. we weren't as rigid as we have become. jonas played further forward, best had some movement, cabaye looked to hit the edge of the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We did benefit from our solid shape at the beginning of the season, but tough games combined with losing important players has made us lose faith in it a bit. Still not sure whether we actually should change it, or just stick with it and grind ourselves back into form. Interesting one. The biggest issue is with the midfield currently which isn't do it's job defensively or offensively. So I think we need to try 4-5-1 at Bolton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 In theory I suppose you're right, ideally he would have acted earlier. But at the same time we had three almost impossible games and then lost most of our defence for the next couple, it's been a tough time for other reasons than Pardew's errors. Hopefuly he'll now realise that the likes of Santon and Ben Arfa must be fixtures in the team, and that he needs to find a way to stop us playing such direct passes all the time. Cabaye's return should help with that too. I thought that the two games away in Manchester were good games and I took more positives then negatives out of them. Chelsea at home should have seen Santon in defence to go up against Sturridge because he was always going to take Taylor apart, which in my view is inexcusable. We've always had injuries and always will have them, he had no excuse for playing 4 full-backs against norwich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 In theory I suppose you're right, ideally he would have acted earlier. But at the same time we had three almost impossible games and then lost most of our defence for the next couple, it's been a tough time for other reasons than Pardew's errors. Hopefuly he'll now realise that the likes of Santon and Ben Arfa must be fixtures in the team, and that he needs to find a way to stop us playing such direct passes all the time. Cabaye's return should help with that too. I thought that the two games away in Manchester were good games and I took more positives then negatives out of them. Chelsea at home should have seen Santon in defence to go up against Sturridge because he was always going to take Taylor apart, which in my view is inexcusable. We've always had injuries and always will have them, he had no excuse for playing 4 full-backs against norwich. So what CB's was he going to magically create from thin-air then..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I would have played Kadar as well TBH, but I don't know the reasons he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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