thomas Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well then they're both horrible, terrible men. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 And my bezzie chris should never have been sacked. Excuse me while I go on a 20 year whinge about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Aye...dont care where we finish..this season tbh, just as long as its not below the Mackems but looking through the fixture list ..its going to be a close call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Do we really only have 19 from 17 played? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Do we really only have 19 from 17 played? Yeap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Deary me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I knew our recent form wasn't good, but 19 points from 17 isn't great! Need to beat Norwich on Sunday, otherwise questions will start being asked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I started asking them long ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Do we really only have 19 from 17 played? Yh we are lucky as hell that we had such a good start and Liverpool have only been able to obtain 5 points since Jan 1st Why cant we just play how we did up until christmas? i cant be that hard surely Pards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Liverpool have only been able to obtain 5 points since Jan 1st woah! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The thing is yesterday's defeat while it was hard to take wasn't that bad compared to a lot of games we've played this season. My problem is with the remaining fixtures. We haven't developed any style or method all season, instead chopping and changing in reaction to our last game. Now we are coming into the final lap I'm just not confident that Pardew has instilled enough of the right disciplines to keep the likes of Everton and Sunderland off our tails. He'll probably think we lost because Ryan Taylor was out ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep. Spot on. Raylor will be brought back into the team on a golden chair. Now obviously he can't drop Ben Arfa after he's been one of our best players for the last two games (it may not say that much, but at least he's been one of the few players making a difference in attacking play), with Pardew backing him with promising quotes on both occasions. In other words Raylor will return to the good old left back, either pushing Santon into oblivion or right back (never gonna drop Simpson I'm afraid). I can't get over how much Pardew rates Ryan Taylor and Simpson. And Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedudeabides Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. except arguably hughes,o'brien,dabizas,griffin was worse but got us into the champs league ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 All we need is another world class manager to links to the area then eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The difference between that team and this one was that this team deliberately invites pressure by giving the ball away with long balls, that team preferred to keep possession so that the other team couldn't get at the defence so easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. Dont rate Pardew, too negative in my view, things can quickly change when things aint going well. Still prefer football that could grant results by scoring and not focusing all on defending. When you go through a goal drought, there is no way you can win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Dabizas, Hughes and Griffin were all fairly decent defenders tbh. Better than Simpson, Williamson and Santon anyhow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Dabizas, Hughes and Griffin were all fairly decent defenders tbh. Better than Simpson, Williamson and Santon anyhow. none as good as colo or saylor though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The difference between that team and this one was that this team deliberately invites pressure by giving the ball away with long balls, that team preferred to keep possession so that the other team couldn't get at the defence so easily. exactly, that team had a midfield that both attacked and defended and had clever players who knew how to read a good game, cover for each other when they moved. now we have 2 midfielders incapable of doing other than what they are (tiote and jonas), 1 looking fucked and a bit lost (cabaye) and take your pick on the right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedudeabides Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. except arguably hughes,o'brien,dabizas,griffin was worse but got us into the champs league ? With the exception of Colo, they were all better defenders than our current crop. And the rest of that team pisses all over this one. Apart from that, it's a good comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. except arguably hughes,o'brien,dabizas,griffin was worse but got us into the champs league ? With the exception of Colo, they were all better defenders than our current crop. And the rest of that team pisses all over this one. Apart from that, it's a good comparison. i'd take saylor over dabizas,o'brien and titus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Disagree with most of the bolded tbh. Few (if any?) have suggested HBA as some cure-all. His inclusion is integral to our progression as a team, I would concede that. His defensive work has never been feeble nor does it cause us major problems. What causes us problems is being unable to take the ball out of defence and keep possession (in fact only Jonas can do it, so far). What causes us problems is that by having omitted HBA from the side, we have more readily given the ball back to the opposition, and given them a chance to repeatedly prod, probe and scrutinise a defence you deem to be the worst we've ever had in Premiership history. HBA doesn't need fixing, tbh. His contribution going forwards, and for players around him so far outweighs any defensive foibles he has that that any argument to the contrary isn't really worth entertaining... yet here we are. Pardew has been completely wrong about his use of HBA IMO. His defensive contribution and application is no better now than it was in November - but Pardew is now full of praise for the same performances "his side couldn't afford" earlier in the season. It's horseshit 101. He's just reached desperation point - and that has prompted HBA's latest run. Incidentally, HBA's attitude as a three-quarter player was to play football on the deck and destroy teams (as his quotes from earlier in the season attest to). That seems more befitting of a top four side who hopes to stay there for the long-term, than a team hanging on for dear life 2-0 up at home against an out-of-sorts Everton. Defensive performances and grit have their place in grinding out reults, but to characterise HBA's attitude as the antithesis of what would have kept us in the top four is asinine. I think the squad is capable of doing much better, and I think you've been very, very kind to Pardew saying that this is the most this squad is capable of. Our defensive personnel is weak, but our midfield personnel IMO is among the very best in the Premiership. Given that we have had the power to take initiative of games and protect our defence from scrutiny by controlling the tempo. Instead we've mis-used our midfield personnel to focus the attention of games on our defence - whilst relying on Ba's superhuman form to keep us picking up points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedudeabides Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At the start of the season I thought a defence of Simpson, Perch, RTaylor, STaylor, Coloccini, Williamson, Ferguson, and no one except later Santon was at least as bad as what got us promoted and possibly the worst I had ever seen us have in the Premiership. I think Pardew would like to play more attacking football but I can see why he wants to focus on protecting the back 4 and agree with the approach. We have seen them completely collapse on several occasions, to have the best defence in the league after 10 games with that lot was a remarkable achievement. We haven't got good enough wide players to compensate for constantly leaking two or three goals a game, and while we could get more from Cabaye in the final third, Tiote will never offer much in this area. We were fortunate (and Pardew deserves credit) that at the start of the season that Ryan Taylor (at leftback, unbelievably) and Jonas were in the the form of their lives. Obertan just isn't good enough, we took a gamble on the cheap option with a poor injury record in Marveaux and it didn't work. The result, inevitably, is the ball ends up in the air a lot. With that midfield and Williamson and Simpson at the back it would be the same regardless of who the manager is. Its a shame because in Ba and Cisse we could potentially have a very good strikeforce, but they need the ball on the deck. The solution everyone wants is to just play BenArfa on the wing and go for it. I'd obviously like to see more from him and couldn't understand what Pardew was doing with him but his defensive play really is feeble and does cause us problems. He represents the complete opposite of the attitude that had us in the top 4. In simple terms the squad isn't good enough for us to do any better. We were a very direct team last year, Pardew wanted us to be more entertaining this year. He didn't get enough backing to make the full transition and now we are stuck half way between the two, with a manager who is correctly inclined to err towards defence. If we do manage to finish 6th or 7th it will be because of Pardew's ability to extract passable and sometimes decent performances from RTaylor, Best, Guthrie, Williamson, Simpson, Shola, and even James Perch on a regular basis. I reckon Souness could get that lot relegated and thats why Pardew's a decent manager regardless of what formation he plays. Cracking post. except arguably hughes,o'brien,dabizas,griffin was worse but got us into the champs league ? With the exception of Colo, they were all better defenders than our current crop. And the rest of that team pisses all over this one. Apart from that, it's a good comparison. i'd take saylor over dabizas,o'brien and titus. I'd take anyone of them alongside Woodgate over Colo and Taylor any day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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