Alan Pardew

[Mick]

 

Sorry... did I say it wouldn't buy any materials?  Did I say it would sack all its staff?  Oh wait a second... I didn't.

 

Clueless.

[JJ7]

The last 10 years? Sorry, but to maximise revenue and bring money in, we need to improve the team, grow interest and make bigger turnovers. This involves spending money to improve the team, grow the business and then we will make money. Cut cut cut and downsize won't do that. He is running a business first, a football team second, just praying everything falls into place. We sign players for sell on value rather to improve the team.

 

I would struggle to think of another football club who don't have the ambition to at least improve their team.

[Hughesy]

 

Sorry... did I say it wouldn't buy any materials?  Did I say it would sack all its staff?  Oh wait a second... I didn't.

 

Clueless.

 

Great reply.

[Ishmael]

Hughesy, please highlight the word if in your post.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right.  I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so.  Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing.

 

As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs.  Why wouldn't it?  If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could.  I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work.  My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it.

 

I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point.  It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it.  Arguably he has already done that and has had enough.

 

A manufacturing company would go bust if it didn't have materials or the staff to produce the goods it sells

 

correct, you'd look to cut costs in every area that did not affect the quality of the product you were making, only as a last resort should you/would you look to use inferior materials and thus potentially compromise your product reputation (assuming it had one)

 

my point about ashley is that the debts are owed to him for fucks sake, and as mick points out we're running close to even - 35m should and could have seen a little investment above the shrewd buys we've made to climb the table and claw more money in from table positions

 

another year ticks by and barton and smith leave the wage bill (loven & shola?), more cash becomes available within the wage budget and things progress...he chose the alternative

 

instead mike has played the greedy little director taking a chance...he's taken chances before and we were relegated, while i don't think that'll happen again he shouldn't be operating this way man

[Guest Antec]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

[Dave]

I would like to assume that the Crouch and Defoe rumors were purely media creations.

 

Notice how they didn't last particularly long, whereas other targets have stuck around.

 

Negative = untrue. Spot the hypocrisy.

 

Somehow there's this ongoing myth that we do all our dealings on the quiet and we keep things out of the media. If you step back and have a look at the destructive things that have happened since Ashley rolled up, nearly all of them have been rumoured in the media beforehand and dismissed by people on here as untrue. The Keegan affair, bust ups in the dressing room and behind the scenes, transfers, everything. Obviously not everything negative that is printed is true, but there's a theme that most people spotted quite some time ago.

[Wallace]

 

As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right.  I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so.  Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing.

 

As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs.  Why wouldn't it?  If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could.  I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work.  My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it.

 

I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point.  It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it.  Arguably he has already done that and has had enough.

 

A manufacturing company would go bust if it didn't have materials or the staff to produce the goods it sells

 

correct, you'd look to cut costs in every area that did not affect the quality of the product you were making, only as a last resort should you/would you look to use inferior materials and thus potentially compromise your product reputation (assuming it had one)

 

my point about ashley is that the debts are owed to him for f***s sake, and as mick points out we're running close to even - 35m should and could have seen a little investment above the shrewd buys we've made to climb the table and claw more money in from table positions

 

another year ticks by and barton and smith leave the wage bill (loven & shola?), more cash becomes available within the wage budget and things progress...he chose the alternative

 

instead mike has played the greedy little director taking a chance...he's taken chances before and we were relegated, while i don't think that'll happen again he shouldn't be operating this way man

 

I think Ashley takes gambles with his decision making.  Pre-relegation the gambles failed but post-relegation, they have all come off.  At some point, he is going to run out of luck.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Fair point, as I've said it's all about balance, and Ashley could be argued to have gone too far in his cutting of costs. The thing that helps me come to terms with it is that we still have managed to sign some exciting players and get some great results.

 

You don't seem to be at all bothered about what the management does to the club, the promises made to the fans or the players. 

 

When the manager of a club publicly announces that every penny of the Carroll money will be invested into the team, it's pretty common knowledge that it mean's any contract renewals, transfer and agent fees so to come out of this window with a smaller squad, and making a net gain is indefensible.  Why brazenly lie about it?  Why not explicitly tell the fans at the time it's intentions with the money instead of intentionally misleading? 

 

FWIW Ashley was loaning the club money interest fee, so has every intention of getting every penny back, so there is no point trying to make out he is Mr Charitable.

 

Of course I care about what happens to the club, but I don't think any major damage has been done. The relegation was horrible, but we managed it well and bounced back strongly. I don't expect us to be at any risk of relegation this season, but that's just my opinion. Obviously we won't get in the top 6 either though.

 

It was a mistake to promise that all of the money would be invested in the team. I don't know whether Pardew was told to say that knowing it was false, or he was led to believe it was true. I suspect the latter.

 

Either way, no money has gone out of the club. Ashley hasn't taken a penny out. I've never said he's Mr Charitable, but he's not an asset stripper either.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

[Mick]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

[Guest Antec]

 

As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right.  I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so.  Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing.

 

As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs.  Why wouldn't it?  If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could.  I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work.  My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it.

 

I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point.  It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it.  Arguably he has already done that and has had enough.

 

A manufacturing company would go bust if it didn't have materials or the staff to produce the goods it sells

 

correct, you'd look to cut costs in every area that did not affect the quality of the product you were making, only as a last resort should you/would you look to use inferior materials and thus potentially compromise your product reputation (assuming it had one)

 

my point about ashley is that the debts are owed to him for f***s sake, and as mick points out we're running close to even - 35m should and could have seen a little investment above the shrewd buys we've made to climb the table and claw more money in from table positions

 

another year ticks by and barton and smith leave the wage bill (loven & shola?), more cash becomes available within the wage budget and things progress...he chose the alternative

 

instead mike has played the greedy little director taking a chance...he's taken chances before and we were relegated, while i don't think that'll happen again he shouldn't be operating this way man

 

I think Ashley takes gambles with his decision making.  Pre-relegation the gambles failed but post-relegation, they have all come off.  At some point, he is going to run out of luck.

 

It looks like he might have a decent chunk of 35 million to partially cover his gamble this time

[Hughesy]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

Genuine question - when did he take money out?  I didn't think he had.

[Mick]

 

 

Genuine question - when did he take money out?  I didn't think he had.

 

I would have to go through the accounts and I don't really want to do that but we had a loan to him that was greater during the financial year then it was at the end of it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

[Guest Antec]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

 

[Guest Antec]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

 

 

Thought so. By the way have you got your season ticket yet?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

 

 

Thought so. By the way have you got your season ticket yet?

 

 

A wise man told me don't argue with fools,

Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

 

 

We're clearly getting nowhere here, I don't want to be one of "those people" on the internet that engage in this sort of pointless argument.

[Mick]

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

You get more money for each position you go up in the league and you could estimate that a higher position will mean greater income form other revenue such as sponsorships, advertising, gate receipts etc.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

You get more money for each position you go up in the league and you could estimate that a higher position will mean greater income form other revenue such as sponsorships, advertising, gate receipts etc.

 

True, the problem is that you could spend more and finish lower.

 

What I'm saying is that it's not as easy to guarantee a return as in conventional business, therefore someone like Ashley might decide to cut his losses and play it safe-ish, gambling that we can do just as well with reduced investment in players.

[timnufc22]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

[Guest Antec]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

 

 

Thought so. By the way have you got your season ticket yet?

 

 

A wise man told me don't argue with fools,

Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

 

 

We're clearly getting nowhere here, I don't want to be one of "those people" on the internet that engage in this sort of pointless argument.

 

I was trying to do you a favour in case you hadn't heard about Newcastle's brand new feeder club, Bottom Line Wanderers. They don't play any games as such but you do get a copy of the latest accounts through the post every month

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

And for the last 10 years? And our amount of debt?

 

From the horses mouth:

 

Mike Ashley has only ever put money into this football club. He has never taken a single penny out.

 

'And he won't take a single penny of this £35m either - all the money will go to the club and we are already working on identifying transfer targets for the summer.'

 

/ignored

 

If you're talking about me, I've responded every time this has been raised, in the best way I could. You're really not helping this thread.

 

Really? I must have missed it. Run that bollocks by me again, I could do with a laugh

 

 

Thought so. By the way have you got your season ticket yet?

 

 

A wise man told me don't argue with fools,

Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

 

 

We're clearly getting nowhere here, I don't want to be one of "those people" on the internet that engage in this sort of pointless argument.

 

I was trying to do you a favour in case you hadn't heard about Newcastle's brand new feeder club, Bottom Line Wanderers. They don't play any games as such but you do get a copy of the latest accounts through the post every month

 

See my previous post, let's stop it now.