Alan Pardew

[TooonDoom]

I said up there!!  f*** it, back in a bit.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/stokoe/1315381734.jpg

 

Courtesy of Happy Face. Doesn't include the Forest win.

 

Statistics, lies and damned lies.

 

[Ryan]

Surprised at how high Souness is 

[Ronaldo]

Surprised at how high Souness is 

 

Slovakian farmers.

[ponsaelius]

Surprised at how high Souness is 

 

Slovakian farmers.

 

Same goes for Roeder.

[AlanSkÃrare]

Surprised at how high Souness is 

 

Inherited a superb squad. Bound to win games in the beginning.

[Guest BooBoo]

Zulte Waregem FFS.

[Interpolic]

Surprised at how high Souness is 

 

Slovakian farmers.

 

Same goes for Roeder.

 

Dunno like, that run we had under Roeder when he was caretaker was immense results-wise, and we played some decent stuff too.

[quayside]

Disagree, unsurprisingly.

 

Ossie got the boot because we were second bottom and on our way to sliding down a division. KK may well have been spoken to before Ossie was officially given his marching orders though, you are correct. I do differentiate the two situations because of the following:

 

Hughton was given the boot when we were 9th having taken a relegated side up from the Championship. The true reasons for his dismissal we can speculate about all day - from my perspective "getting someone in with more experience" isn't a real or valid reason. People without experience in all kinds of professions can flourish spectacularly. Furthermore, there was no reason to believe, from the evidence available, that Hughton wouldn't continue to do a fantastic job, or continue to grow and do better - or that Pardew was even capable of being anything other than a midtable/lower half manager.

 

And Hughton was doing doing a fantastic job - fans who had been disenchanted with the club had fallen in love with the players and the manager all over again and all was well on that side of things. To displace someone in that situation essentially by virtue of being chummy with the owner is akin to nepotism in my book.  Also, Pardew wasn't scouted/spoken to because they thought he could do a better job, he was scouted because he would kowtow to Ashley, sell players assets, and take gambles on their replacements. That we've done well since is by the by (and largely down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best!).

 

Also, to voluntarily get in bed with characters such as Ashley/Llambias (irrespective of the golden opportunity Newcastle United presented to his career) in my book makes him a morally dubious and complicit arsehole. If Gaddafi offered you a position on his cabinet, would you take it? You'd be running (whatever it is you happen to do) at a national level on an international stage afterall.

 

Now that he's here, fine. The team are doing well - very well actually. Since the real problems are above him, campaigning against him to leave the club is silly/pointless. I'm still not obliged to either like or trust the guy though. He's as much a part of the regime as the new Sports Direct lettering IMO.

 

The timing of your post is good though, Otter. Would've like to see the reception it got if you posted it after the transfer window closed without a new striker, or after we sold Enrique, instead of after our unbeaten start.

 

I liked and respected Hughton, he did a really good job in what, to start with, must have been an incredibly difficult situation. His achievement was to  got us promoted with the best and most expensive squad the Championship has ever seen.  A manager and a side that comes first in its division is easy to fall in love with.

 

Had much more to do with his demeanour, dignity and respect he engendered amongst the place IMO. He had a good squad, but plenty of Premiership squads have sunk without a trace. A pejorative take on things^

 

Ashley is a business man and I defy you to produce any evidence that he's not running this club as a business.

 

No s*** I don't know why you say that with such pride, tbh. I made a lengthy post somewhere on why that's not something to be proud of, so I won't go into it again.

 

Your take on the Hughton sacking is that Pardew would "kowtow" to Ashley and Llambias and let them sell who they like. Utter crap imo - this means that you think Hughton was some sort of iron character who would stand up to Ashley and stop him selling Carroll and Enrique? Or maybe you think that Hughton's sheer charisma would have persuaded them to stay? Hughton is a far less outspoken character than Pardew, when did Hughton ever say anything of any consequence in an interview? I thought everyone knew that managers don't have the final say on decisions like the Carroll and Enrique sales anyway.

 

You seem to be conflating the issues of a manager having decision-making powers (which I didn't mention in my post) and a manager accepting a regime he did not agree with. Hughton would obviously not have been able to stop the sales of any of our players, and I suspect the real reason he isn't here - and the reason Pardew is - is because Hughton wasn't willing to participate fully with Ashley's cost-cutting pissing-in-the-faces-of-fans regime.

 

Ashley appointed Pardew because he thought he would do a better job of protecting his asset, that's why businessmen make decisions like that.

 

Again no arguments from me, but again - not sure why you're proud of this. As long as we're both in agreement it wasn't for footballing reasons in the conventional sense of the phrase.

 

Love the point about our success to date being mainly down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best    Apart from the complete dismissal of other players who have played a part (and let's not forget Kinnear's signing Ryan Taylor btw) this the same Leon Best who couldn't hit a barn from the inside until Pardew took over.

 

Fair point, you've got me there (although I would stress my point was somewhat tongue in cheek). A lot of players contributed very well to the second half of our season, but with the exception of Jonas and Colo, none was more invaluable than Best after Carroll's sale (even though Carroll was injured for the rest of it)

 

Hey it's early days, the fixture list so far has helped us get a start and I'm not carried away with what's happened so far But Pardew is one of the things I like about our set up right now. I certainly would rather he was here than plenty of the other managers in the Premiership (as well as the high profile, big ego managers in the Championship).

 

I'll not say much about the stuff you agree with other than to say I'm certainly not proud of any of my observations and don't know why you think I would be.

 

Picking up on your comments:

 

"Had much more to do with his demeanour, dignity and respect he engendered amongst the place IMO. He had a good squad, but plenty of Premiership squads have sunk without a trace. A pejorative take on things"

 

He had more than a good squad, it was light years better than anything else in that division. And whilst I agree with you about his demeanour, dignity and respect my take on it is that the players themselves were largely running the show and Hughton (wisely) gave them the empowerment to do so.

 

"You seem to be conflating the issues of a manager having decision-making powers (which I didn't mention in my post) and a manager accepting a regime he did not agree with. Hughton would obviously not have been able to stop the sales of any of our players, and I suspect the real reason he isn't here - and the reason Pardew is - is because Hughton wasn't willing to participate fully with Ashley's cost-cutting pissing-in-the-faces-of-fans regime."

 

No conflation here. I happen to think Hughton wouldn't have stood in the way of anything Ashley tried to do, he was even more of a puppet than some suggest Pardew is. And you did refer to the transfer window and the selling of Enrique - and you did link them with Pardew btw.

 

 

"As long as we're both in agreement it wasn't for footballing reasons in the conventional sense of the phrase."

 

Any manager we have isn't going to control the money side of it. I think Ashley thought Pardew would get more out of the squad than Hughton and would therefore get a better return for his asset.

 

[Ronaldo]

Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too.

 

Unfortunately, he signed a contract and instantly - in his own mind - became some sort of Jose Mourinho - Barry White hybrid, and it all went massively wong.

[Guest BooBoo]

Roeder flopping as permanent boss was one of the most dreadfully predictable episodes in our recent years.

[Mr. Snrub]

Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too.

 

All Shearer's work.

[Beren]

Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes.

 

Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones.

 

I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here.

 

Edit: Regarding Ashley running the club as a business - your views came across on the forum as being tinged with more than a touch of pride - "I defy you to find..." seems like a proud statement to me! I find it relevant as I see Pardew's initial acceptance of the job as being tantamount to, and evidence of complicity/condoning how Ashley runs the club.

[Ronaldo]

Shearer's 'work' wasn't in action till 3 years later.

[Sifu]

Roeder deserves massive credit for moving us 8 or 9 places up the league with 3 months of the season remaining. The football was nice to watch too.

 

 

Roeder flopping as permanent boss was one of the most dreadfully predictable episodes in our recent years.

 

[Interpolic]

A lot of what you're saying is entirely baseless imo like, quayside. 

 

The stuff about Hughton potentially being more of a pushover than Pardew when it comes to transfers when we have clear examples of Pardew being a total pushover (and more to the point a liar or at the very least a naive prat) when it comes to transfers, and no such examples for Hughton.  Then in the same breath suggesting Hughton wouldn't have got as much out of that squad as Pardew when there's nothing to suggest that this is the case.

 

You're presuming the most negative scenario for Hughton and looking at Pardew from some perspective I don't understand.  Just because it's working out alright in September doesn't mean we were right to pluck this guy from League 1 when we were going fine as it was.  As usual I hope Pardew proves me wrong and the team get my full support despite what I think, but I definitely still have my reservations about this guy and think we played better stuff under Hughton.

[Ronaldo]

Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes.

 

Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones.

 

I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here.

 

Eh?

[Beren]

Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes.

 

Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones.

 

I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here.

 

Eh?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9268294.stm

 

Not gonna get into it with you again about Pardew being in charge for this one. Believe the post-match interview from people within the club more than the BBC report or what the teamsheet said the manager was.

[Ronaldo]

Hughton would've pissed away 2 points like he did 2 weeks earlier against Chelsea.

[Interpolic]

It doesn't really matter if we were 8th or 12th, we were well clear of trouble with some great results/performances under our belt and Hughton deserved the chance to see his work through.  Was a fucking rank decision to get rid of him and I still stand by that, a whole list of fairly mediocre results since then won't change my mind about that.

[Beren]

Hughton would've pissed away 2 points like he did 2 weeks earlier against Chelsea.

 

Yeah, imagine throwing away a one goal lead to a Champions' League club.

 

Or worse, a three goal lead against West Brom at home.

[Interpolic]

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what people think are Pardew's best performances/results so far btw, I'm really trying to understand this.

 

Under Hughton we were a very inconsistent side in our first season back up, but we had a few games where we dominated the opposition which suggested we were becoming a side that could beat anyone on our day.  In that instance, consistency is the next step.  When have we dominated a game under Pardew?  I can't think of many examples.  West Ham at home springs to mind.

[Beren]

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what people think are Pardew's best performances/results so far btw, I'm really trying to understand this.

 

Under Hughton we were a very inconsistent side in our first season back up, but we had a few games where we dominated the opposition which suggested we were becoming a side that could beat anyone on our day.  In that instance, consistency is the next step.  When have we dominated a game under Pardew?  I can't think of many examples.  West Ham at home springs to mind.

 

I was really, really impressed by our last game against Villa tbh.

 

It was Villa though. They showed all the frailty and lack of bite in midfield they showed last season (when we knocked six past them). Hope it continues. That aside, I'm struggling.

[colinmk]

A lot of what you're saying is entirely baseless imo like, quayside. 

 

The stuff about Hughton potentially being more of a pushover than Pardew when it comes to transfers when we have clear examples of Pardew being a total pushover (and more to the point a liar or at the very least a naive prat) when it comes to transfers, and no such examples for Hughton.  Then in the same breath suggesting Hughton wouldn't have got as much out of that squad as Pardew when there's nothing to suggest that this is the case.

 

You're presuming the most negative scenario for Hughton and looking at Pardew from some perspective I don't understand.  Just because it's working out alright in September doesn't mean we were right to pluck this guy from League 1 when we were going fine as it was.  As usual I hope Pardew proves me wrong and the team get my full support despite what I think, but I definitely still have my reservations about this guy and think we played better stuff under Hughton.

 

Good post, spot on.

[Mr. Snrub]

We look more organised under Pardew.

 

We looked more dangerous under Hughton.

[Tiresias]

I'm still undecided about Pardew, it's very easy to excuse all the bad things of his reign on Ashley, but that's also not that unreasonable. He seems reasonably competant, got our defence working pretty well, but he hasn't had to rebuild that.

 

I like he wants pace, we were in danger of becoming fatally sluggish last season, and we'd have got slower this season if we hadn't had this influx of youth. I like that he has struck a fair chord between not rushing tactical changes so as to leave players not knowing what they're doing, rather than switching formation every week, and also making the changes, we do seem to be shifting to a much more midfield orientated team.

 

I also don't know if he's the kind of manager who will when down at halftime make a bold change to take the game back. Has he really had to make any bold decisions since he came in? His half time team talk at arsenal last season must have been good to be fair to him. There is a worrying slickness though, he always seems to say the right things, he's competent but yet to prove himself someone who will drag us long way up the table. However of course getting rid of him would only do damage, and definately no cause, but the long term contract may be a mistake. I wonder if he's going to prove a great manager to rebuild the team over the next few seasons, but then we may want someone to then get us to achieve better things. I also don't know yet what he's like when things are really bad. If we pick up some injuries and start on a bad run, he needs to be able to turn us around...before he gets sacked only making things worse...