Alan Pardew

[James]

Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it.

 

i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant

 

It is.

 

1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training.

2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet.

3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites.

4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be.

 

... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point

 

Fair enough.

 

Coloccini has an equal amount of technical ability to Ben Arfa - people just disregard it more because he isn't the goal-scorer he's the goal saver. Tackling is a technical ability as well which people sometimes forget.

 

I think technique is generally understand to mean ability with the ball at your feet though and Ben Arfa is better then Colo in that respect.

 

Otherwise, last season you could have said Carroll was the most technically gifted player in the league based on his heading ability.

 

Tackling requires technique, as does heading. Therefore the best 'technical footballer' has the best ability across most of the areas.

 

And ability is not just about technique for me, it is also about other things like being in the right position to intercept a pass, or spotting a good pass, out running an opponent for 70 yards and still having a bit left in the tank.

 

And even then that does not include mental attributes like determination which Jonas and Taylor have in abundance, making up for a marginal lack of ability.

[Frazzle]

Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it.

 

i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant

 

It is.

 

1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training.

2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet.

3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites.

4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be.

 

... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point

 

Fair enough.

 

Coloccini has an equal amount of technical ability to Ben Arfa - people just disregard it more because he isn't the goal-scorer he's the goal saver. Tackling is a technical ability as well which people sometimes forget.

 

I think technique is generally understand to mean ability with the ball at your feet though and Ben Arfa is better then Colo in that respect.

 

Otherwise, last season you could have said Carroll was the most technically gifted player in the league based on his heading ability.

 

Tackling requires technique, as does heading. Therefore the best 'technical footballer' has the best ability across most of the areas.

 

As I said though, I don't think people generally interpret in that way.  Ask anyone who's got the best technique in the league and 99% of people will say Silva, ignoring all defenders and keepers.

 

You're right. I used to play CB so I may be biased like...but goal-scorers are very widely regarded more worthwhile or more important than goal-savers. They're sold for more and grab more headlines and really it's a load of bollocks.

 

It is a good point, you rarely see defenders or keepers winning the Ballon D'Or.  Still think Ben Arfa is our best technical player regardless. 

[Dave]

After Man United there are four eminently winnable matches coming up. We'll know after those just how good Pardew is, because aside from 10-15mins against Bolton we're in absolutely awful form. Losing Ba and Tiote won't make things easier.

[Dr Venkman]

After Man United there are four eminently winnable matches coming up. We'll know after those just how good Pardew is, because aside from 10-15mins against Bolton we're in absolutely awful form. Losing Ba and Tiote won't make things easier.

 

good post Dave, i've been livid with the style of play since Norwich (considering we've shown we can knock it around a bit this season when we try). I don't care how we play if we get good results in those 4 games but we're looking pretty hopeless at the minute

[Hanshithispantz]

Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it.

 

i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant

 

It is.

 

1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training.

2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet.

3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites.

4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be.

 

... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point

 

Fair enough.

 

Coloccini has an equal amount of technical ability to Ben Arfa - people just disregard it more because he isn't the goal-scorer he's the goal saver. Tackling is a technical ability as well which people sometimes forget.

 

I think technique is generally understand to mean ability with the ball at your feet though and Ben Arfa is better then Colo in that respect.

 

Otherwise, last season you could have said Carroll was the most technically gifted player in the league based on his heading ability.

 

Tackling requires technique, as does heading. Therefore the best 'technical footballer' has the best ability across most of the areas.

And ability is not just about technique for me, it is also about other things like being in the right position to intercept a pass, or spotting a good pass, out running an opponent for 70 yards and still having a bit left in the tank.

 

And even then that does not include mental attributes like determination which Jonas and Taylor have in abundance, making up for a marginal lack of ability.

Groundbreaking discovery there James

[ohmelads]

I think Pardew is taking some very unfair criticism from some fans. You look at the investment we had in the summer and the budget signings who came in. Ba and Marveaux were bosman signings who other clubs probably didn't want to gamble on. It was said at the time that Stoke and Liverpool looked at both but decided against it. Obertan was another budget signing, as was Abeid.

 

Really he wasn't backed in the transfer window to replace the major losses of Carroll, Enrique, Barton, Nolan. We lose 4 of our best players, 4 established first teamers. You look at the money he was given to make do and he has us 7th in the New Year.

 

I thought we rode our luck early on in the season and over time our lack of squad depth has been found out. It isn't really Pardew's fault the squad is weak, I'm sure he'd have wanted to drop proper money on a more proven right winger, another defender and another quality forward rather than taking a punt on Obertan and making do elsewhere but the money wasn't given. We grinded out games with limited resources and players giving their all and you have to give the manager credit there. He quickly forged a strong team spirit with players who were new to the team, they gelled impressively quickly and that's down to management.

 

Having said that he has made some errors in recent games and it's now up to him to look back, accept his mistakes and make the necessary changes. It's incredible that Ben Arfa has never had a run of games at the club. To drop him for Vuckic makes little sense, an inexperienced player not known for his hard work either, and just a few days after Ben Arfa came off the bench to score a vital goal at Bolton. And in the circumstances, we know Ashley won't fund a striker so Pardew must find a Ba replacement from within the club. Ba has scored half of our goals and you look at players like Ameobi, Lovenkrands and Best, all have had their chance here and all have proven themselves as limited footballers. We need a matchwinner in Ba's absence and the one player who you would want to give a run isn't getting games. It is starting to remind me of Pardew's attitude with Tevez and Mascherano. There are similar question marks over Santon's absence. The sooner we get these 2 players into the side the better because it's clear that we're lacking quality on the ball to beat teams like Swansea, Norwich and West Brom.

[Dr Venkman]

you've started by saying the criticism is unfair and gone on to underline exactly why he's being criticised...he doesn't put his best players on the pitch, that would be fair criticism imo

[Guest BooBoo]

Very fair assessment ohmelads.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

Scrap it out ffs

[Guest BooBoo]

you've started by saying the criticism is unfair and gone on to underline exactly why he's being criticised...he doesn't put his best players on the pitch

 

It's fair to criticise him for selection issues. It's not fair though to criticise him for the lack of squad depth, an issue that has little to do with him. It's no surprise that since injuries have bitten, our form has tailed off given the dismal lack of investment last summer which will no doubt be repeated this month.

[Heron]

So, by this logic, we could sign Leo Messi, leave him on the bench every week and he wouldn't be the 'star player' of the club? OK.

 

Big names don't equal star players. By your logic Michael Owen was our star player during the relegation season.

 

Come off it. Messi is a 'big name' but he's one of the best two players in the world at the moment, that's just blatant widespread opinion.

 

..and Ben Arfa isn't one of the best two players in the world at the moment.

[Beren]

None of the criticism levelled at Pardew has anything to do with the personnel available to him. It's to do with his abject decision-making, the style of football he's got good footballers playing and his management since the Brittania

 

Edit: Actually before the Stoke game. The results just elucidated this after that game.

[ohmelads]

you've started by saying the criticism is unfair and gone on to underline exactly why he's being criticised...he doesn't put his best players on the pitch

 

You're right, I was trying to give a balanced assessment but posted in a hurry. Overall I think he's done a good job and I could understand his reluctance early on to change a winning team. I think he deserves criticism for what's happened in recent weeks and needs to make changes before we drop more points. But overall I think some people are being harsh by going back to our early season wins and laying into the manager, we are still in a good position and some of what has happened in recent weeks was affected by the Taylor injury - again I don't think it's necessarily Pardew's fault we began the season with just 3 centre backs.

 

Perhaps the injury to Obertan will force him to make necessary changes. We just have to hope Ben Arfa can come in and hit the ground running, I think that's one situation he has handled poorly because there'll be a lot of pressure on him to do so with Tiote and Ba out of the picture.

[Guest ykmkmdd]

Still think he's doing OK - recent games haven't been brilliant but we always knew this would be a really tough run - if you look at the run of games after Man Utd, 6 out of 7 are matches we should be looking to win so this is set to be the real defining period of the season IMO.

 

Shame we have to do most of it without Tiote and Ba, need some of the fringe lads, and hopefully Ben Arfa to step forward. Couple of signings would be very handy but it's not really Pardew's fault if they're not forthcoming.

[Heron]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

[Wullie]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

 

It's stuff like this that does your argument no favours at all.

[Heron]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

 

It's stuff like this that does your argument no favours at all.

 

Why? Because it's a true statement?

[Hanshithispantz]

You've completely missed the point of the 'star player' (apostrophes were there for a reason) on about 6 seperate occasions now like heza. I'll let you off like and pretend you're still on a come down from the new year.

[Heron]

You've completely missed the point of the 'star player' (apostrophes were there for a reason) on about 6 seperate occasions now like heza. I'll let you off like and pretend you're still on a come down from the new year.

 

That's nice if you. Thanks.

 

Please will you elaborate so I fully understand?

 

It seems to me that I just don't go with popular verdict...

[Wullie]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

 

It's stuff like this that does your argument no favours at all.

 

Why? Because it's a true statement?

 

What, that I think he's a saviour just because I think he should be in the team? I doubt it takes a saviour to offer more than Best or Obertan.

 

I think Santon should be in the team too, that must make him a saviour too. In fact, there must be 11 saviours a week.

[Guest BooBoo]

I think it's fair to say that HBA becomes a better player with each game he doesnt play.

 

I think he's a talent but can see why any manager would quickly become infuriated with him.

[Hanshithispantz]

You've completely missed the point of the 'star player' (apostrophes were there for a reason) on about 6 seperate occasions now like heza. I'll let you off like and pretend you're still on a come down from the new year.

 

That's nice if you. Thanks.

 

Please will you elaborate so I fully understand?

 

It seems to me that I just don't go with popular verdict...

It isn't too dificult like.

 

I made the original point that he's our 'star man', the biggest name player we have, the one who gets people off their seats, singing his name before he's even on the pitch etc. If he fulfills the hype or not is yet to be seen.

 

For some reason though you and James took it as an opportunity to make a point about him not been our most influential player.

[Heron]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

 

It's stuff like this that does your argument no favours at all.

 

Why? Because it's a true statement?

 

What, that I think he's a saviour just because I think he should be in the team? I doubt it takes a saviour to offer more than Best or Obertan.

 

I think Santon should be in the team too, that must make him a saviour too. In fact, there must be 11 saviours a week.

 

It wasn't a personal thing against you Wiliie, sorry.

 

I was simply exaggerating the inflated views of a player who deserves his chance but is already widely regarded as our best player despite doing very little for us in Black and White compared to certain others.

[Wullie]

I for one struggle to criticize Pardew - I think he is doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Ben Arfa should get the game time in Ba's absence then our world class, star player will show us the savior that many fans seem to think he already is. 

 

I don't dislike Ben Arfa. I just hate the scapegoating of other less talented footballers when people like him are still yet to fulfill their ability in a Black and White shirt.

 

It's stuff like this that does your argument no favours at all.

 

Why? Because it's a true statement?

 

What, that I think he's a saviour just because I think he should be in the team? I doubt it takes a saviour to offer more than Best or Obertan.

 

I think Santon should be in the team too, that must make him a saviour too. In fact, there must be 11 saviours a week.

 

It wasn't a personal thing against you Wiliie, sorry.

 

I was simply exaggerating the inflated views of a player who deserves his chance but is already widely regarded as our best player despite doing very little for us in Black and White compared to certain others.

 

He's hardly played though.

 

David Silva's done nothing in black and white either, I reckon he'd sneak into our team though. I assume you're happy to see Santon continue to sit on the bench too behind Simpson and Taylor on the basis that they've "done more in black and white"? Why was Cabaye brought in and put in the team ahead of Guthrie, who'd done more in black and white?

 

How do you quantify that? You'd have a hard time arguing that Demba Ba's done more in black and white than Shola has, for example.

[Parky]

The only thing I can think about the ridiculous Santon scenario is that his knee isn't upto stating every week. There is literally no reason he should be behind either fullback.