Alan Pardew

[Mick]

Most of those wins for Roeder and Souness would include the Europa League.

 

They were still wins, 2 of the defeats for Pardew were against Stevenage and Brighton.

[BottledDog]

Eh?

 

Some managers having a better win percentage than others means a sum total of toss is what I meant.

 

Different times, different squads, different expectations.

[Guest neesy111]

Most of those wins for Roeder and Souness would include the Europa League.

 

They were still wins, 2 of the defeats for Pardew were against Stevenage and Brighton.

 

Another reason to have a dig at Pardew.

 

Lets see the league records.

[David28]

Pardew will soon have overtaken them if we continue current season's work.

[Dave]

Eh?

 

Some managers having a better win percentage than others means a sum total of toss is what I meant.

 

Different times, different squads, different expectations.

 

Ray Wilkins took charge of two games eight years apart. What a daft comparison.

 

Anyway, I never said anything about win percentage. I was merely comparing the records of our last three managers to take charge of 50+ games with the club in the top flight.

[Dave]

PS: depressing, isn't it.

[Mick]

50 games in charge for Pardew now.

W19 D15 L16 38.00% wins

 

FWIW, Souness (83 games):

W36 D18 L29 43.37% wins

 

Roeder (72 games):

W33 D24 L15 45.83% wins

 

 

If you work those records out a 3 points for a win and a point for a draw, regardless of the competition. Pardew has the worst record, Roeder would be on 1.7 points per game, Souness would be on 1.52 points per game and Pardew would be on 1.44 points per game.

[Mick]

 

 

Another reason to have a dig at Pardew.

 

Lets see the league records.

 

You were the one who was hinting at the standard of the opposition, does that only work against certain managers?

[Stu]

Eh?

 

Some managers having a better win percentage than others means a sum total of toss is what I meant.

 

Different times, different squads, different expectations.

 

Ray Wilkins took charge of two games eight years apart. What a daft comparison.

 

Anyway, I never said anything about win percentage. I was merely comparing the records of our last three managers to take charge of 50+ games with the club in the top flight.

 

What are the league %s?

[NEEJ]

50 games in charge for Pardew now.

W19 D15 L16 38.00% wins

 

FWIW, Souness (83 games):

W36 D18 L29 43.37% wins

 

Roeder (72 games):

W33 D24 L15 45.83% wins

 

And what does it look like without cup matches?

[Ketsbaia]

Putting it in perspective, Souness inherited a top 5 squad and Roeder got us 7th which felt normal at the time but thats where we're aiming for now. It's not like we're miles better than those days.

[Dave]

50 games in charge for Pardew now.

W19 D15 L16 38.00% wins

 

FWIW, Souness (83 games):

W36 D18 L29 43.37% wins

 

Roeder (72 games):

W33 D24 L15 45.83% wins

 

And what does it look like without cup matches?

 

Dunno, haven't got the split. Don't cup matches count?

[Guest H09]

If you remove the UEFA Cup and Inter Toto Cup it is :

 

Souness 67 24 17 26 = 35%

Roeder 60 21 22 14 = 35%

 

 

[Mick]

 

 

Dunno, haven't got the split. Don't cup matches count?

 

Press reports before going out of the cup were hinting that we would rest players in league matches so that they would play better in the FA Cup.  It was starting to look like our league position was going to take 2nd preference to doing well in the cup.

[Dave]

If you remove the UEFA Cup and Inter Toto Cup it is :

 

Souness 67 24 17 26 = 35%

Roeder 60 21 22 14 = 35%

 

 

 

Pretty comparable then.

 

Btw taking Pardew's cup matches out puts him at W16 D15 L13 36.36%.

[Guest H09]

If you remove the UEFA Cup and Inter Toto Cup it is :

 

Souness 67 24 17 26 = 35%

Roeder 60 21 22 14 = 35%

 

 

 

Taking Pardew's cup matches out which puts him at W16 D15 L13 36.36%.

 

I didn't take Roeder and Souness' domestic cup matches out.

 

Renewed one would be :

Souness  56 16 17 23 = 28%

Roeder 50 18 21 11 = 36%

 

[Guest neesy111]

We would have got relegated under Souness.

[Dave]

If you remove the UEFA Cup and Inter Toto Cup it is :

 

Souness 67 24 17 26 = 35%

Roeder 60 21 22 14 = 35%

 

 

 

Taking Pardew's cup matches out which puts him at W16 D15 L13 36.36%.

 

I didn't take Roeder and Souness' domestic cup matches out.

 

Renewed one would be :

Souness  56 16 17 23 = 28%

Roeder 50 18 21 11 = 36%

 

 

Cheers.

 

Souness.

[Dave]

Roeder's run in 05/06: WWWDWWLLLLWWWWWDW. Only lost to Man U (a), Liverpool (h), Chelsea (away in the FA Cup) and Charlton (a). Went from 15th to 7th in the league. Forgot just how impressive that turnaround was.

[Parky]

Roeder's run in 05/06: WWWDWWLLLLWWWWWDW. Only lost to Man U (a), Liverpool (h), Chelsea (away in the FA Cup) and Charlton (a). Went from 15th to 7th in the league. Forgot just how impressive that turnaround was.

 

That was impressive stuff. Remember waiting for the spell to wear off and it never really did. Roeder did well in a difficult period.

[Guest H09]

I seem to remember Ameobi playing well Didn't he have a 1 in 2 ratio in that run in under Roeder

[Sifu]

Roeder's run in 05/06: WWWDWWLLLLWWWWWDW. Only lost to Man U (a), Liverpool (h), Chelsea (away in the FA Cup) and Charlton (a). Went from 15th to 7th in the league. Forgot just how impressive that turnaround was.

 

Very impressive indeed. All credit to Roeder for that.

 

Shame about the following season though.

[Sifu]

I'm counting the days until Pardew is sacked. Sometimes the first impression is the right one and mine was formed when Pardew pandered to the East End rags and dropped Mascherano and Tevez because he just didn't know how to use them. His best results have come when he's reverted to the long ball because that's where his heart lies, but our buying policy is light years ahead and he's struggling to incorporate modern day footballers into his '80s mindset. I don't know why he took the players to Tenerife tbh, he should have took them to Butlins.

 

while i think this is way ott i have the same gut feeling, in the same way i felt that hughton had took us as far as he was going around the time he was bagged

 

a better manager could get more out of what we've got imo, but that's a blindingly simplistic way to look at things - for a start how many "better managers" could work under MA and DL?

 

Mojo, TRon is being ridiculous in his comments, way OTT as per.

 

Yes, it is overwhelmingly likely that (at the moment) Pardew is not an 'elite' manager who can guide his team past the 'big boys' on a consistent basis - he also seems to suffer from the team 'underperforming' as a group when the expectations are for them to win the match (it could be said that previous wins from this position have been down to individual brilliance rather than an overall good team performance).

 

However, to say that you're counting the days down until he's sacked [TRon] Pardew fits our club in the current system and where we're at. We've not had a top half finish in the Premiership for 5 years, one of those years spent in the Championship. We've not won a trophy for 19223123years and not contested a major final since the 1970s*.

 

This is not to say that we can't win trophies or challenge for titles, or that we don't deserve to, but it's a bit rich to expect us to be hiring world-class managers and signing world-class players - ask yourself [with your b&w specs off]: why would they want to come?

 

We need to re-establish ourselves as a genuine Premiership team, 3+ seasons of consecutive top 6 finishes and we become a regular European team. This means we not only earn more money through TV + prize money, but we become a more attractive prospect for those players with the quality of Ben Arfa (but without the alleged dodgy temperament/baggage).

 

When we get to this stage, we may well find that Pardew hasn't evolved or adapted and we've surpassed his ceiling. In that case, in the same way Hughton was sent packing when it became clear he wasn't going to kick on, it'll be time to wave goodbye to Pards - but we have to get there first.

 

Pards has shown some interesting ideas and some new ways of working which have seemingly benefitted the club this season (we're over-performing everyone's initial expectations for this season), so there's definitely a lot of good things for him to work with and expand upon over the second half of the season. Now that we've achieved Premiership safety (or at least 4 points from it), there's now a cushion for him to try installing his own way of playing (pass + move, fluid football) in a competitive environment with the players he's been working with for over a year. He can introduce some of the youngsters that have impressed him and try other players in slightly different positions to give them a chance. We've also got the rest of the season to help Cisse bed into the club, with no immediate pressure for him to score.

 

He's not perfect and he has some points which look to have cost us wins this season; however, we have to give managers the chance to evolve and learn from their mistakes before we start praying for their departure. Only if we were dragged into the bottom three, with a team looking bereft of leadership or ideas, would I consider sacking a manager 18months into his tenure.

 

Yesterday's performance and result were both disappointing, a cup run would look to be our best shot of success but it wasn't to be this season as we've underperformed in both cups, despite playing reasonably strong teams in the games that we've been knocked out - similar to last season. If Pardew is genuine with his comments about wanting to go on another cup run (a la WHU) then he needs to work out how to get his players on the same wavelength, because they're playing in the cups like they'd rather be at home .

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I don't count two no-shows at the old Wembley in 98 + 99

 

 

Bang on the money there Stu (well for me anyway)

[JH]

Roeder's run in 05/06: WWWDWWLLLLWWWWWDW. Only lost to Man U (a), Liverpool (h), Chelsea (away in the FA Cup) and Charlton (a). Went from 15th to 7th in the league. Forgot just how impressive that turnaround was.

 

Absolutely loved that period.

 

We just looked so free of the shackles of Souness.

[Guest BooBoo]

How much money did Souness have to spend compared to Pardew?