Gallowgate Toon Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Even the best players in the world can be made to look s*** playing under managers who don't know what do with them or play them in tactics/positions that completely misuse them. Aye, see Inter since Mourinho left. Confidence shouldn't be underestimated either, Cabaye's lost a bit in my opinion, snatching at passes far too much at the minute. As for what kind of midfielder he is, a deep lying playmaker is certainly something he isn't. He's a 'Scholes', an attack minded central midfielder with an engine but has rarely, if ever, been used as one this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't think Cabaye has ever played all that well this season, even earlier in the season. He had a couple of very good one-off performances mixed in with fairly average or even anonymous games earlier on, but now the latter is all he has. He did enough in small bursts to suggest he has talent and can be a success if he adjust to the league, but his development has gone in the opposite direction. buy him as a sports car, use him as a tractor. I'm with you on this one Johnny, I must admit I couldn't really understand the wankfest over him when I watched him earlier this season, even when we were winning, but there's some things in his game which make you realise he'd be a very effective player in the right set up. He does have a lot of vision, he can hit a good pass and he gets stuck in. What he doesn't have is much pace or legs to get up and down the pitch quickly. He'd be great in a technically accomplished defensive team set up to counter quickly in a 4-5-1 team I reckon. He's not a bad player but there's no way he can look good when we are whacking the ball long to Ba as our primary tactic to get the ball forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The system has almost certainly affected Cabaye (and others). I realise it often comes across as defending them because they're foreign and technical, but it is so true. He's playing an unfamiliar role in a team playing direct football to strikers incapable of playing to the direct system. He's just left buzzing around deep and waiting to anticipate balls. Obviously doesn't help with our lack of defensive technique and confidence to play it out, though. What are you talking about man? That is just based on what you think. Jayson has probably explained how this has nothing to do with our manager 20 pages ago. Lets try to comprehend what the word conviction means and how that could differ from person to person. I am probably more pro Pardew than many still, i am open to his flaws though. Some of you are completely blind to any strengths he holds atall, it becomes tedious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't think Cabaye has ever played all that well this season, even earlier in the season. He had a couple of very good one-off performances mixed in with fairly average or even anonymous games earlier on, but now the latter is all he has. He did enough in small bursts to suggest he has talent and can be a success if he adjust to the league, but his development has gone in the opposite direction. buy him as a sports car, use him as a tractor. I'm with you on this one Johnny, I must admit I couldn't really understand the wankfest over him when I watched him earlier this season, even when we were winning, but there's some things in his game which make you realise he'd be a very effective player in the right set up. He does have a lot of vision, he can hit a good pass and he gets stuck in. He's not a bad player but there's no way he can look good when we are whacking the ball long to Ba as our primary tactic to get the ball forward. I agree with all of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Pardews tactics were spot on yesterday. One bad decision in the last minute has cost the team. Pardew can do fuck all about that Cabaye is a decent player no more no less. He is not the world beater he was made out to be. Everyone was caught up in the furore of our start and attributed a lot of it to him and Ba as the new players, when in fact it was whole team improvement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Lets try to comprehend what the word conviction means and how that could differ from person to person. I am probably more pro Pardew than many still, i am open to his flaws though. Some of you are completely blind to any strengths he holds atall, it becomes tedious. List his strenghts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 "World beater" Has anyone ever actually said that about any player in history? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't understand what the point of coming on the forum is if all you're going to do is "we're 6th, stop moaning" or that "player A is simply playing crap, no other explanation". The whole point of the football section is for discussion, analysis, criticisms, praise... and people making criticisms based on what they're watching with their own eyes are always going to be relevant. Actually I can sort of understand why people do bury their heads in the sand considering where we are relative to the last 5 years, but it's still daft. I've argued quite passionately in favour of the job Pardew is doing for large spells of the season, even while having criticisms for certain things that he's done. At the moment though, I'm beginning to get completely exasperated with him doing the same things and making the same mistakes. It's worrying and depressing at the same time, even if we do hold the fort and stumble into the Europa League this season I'm struggling to feel positive of what impact we can make in that competition while we're playing this football and I'm struggling to get excited about what new players we'll have when he's misusing all our best ones anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sewelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Pardews tactics were spot on yesterday. One bad decision in the last minute has cost the team. Pardew can do f*** all about that Cabaye is a decent player no more no less. He is not the world beater he was made out to be. Everyone was caught up in the furore of our start and attributed a lot of it to him and Ba as the new players, when in fact it was whole team improvement Pardews tactics weren't spot on, first half I can have no complaints but we changed it 2nd half and suffered because of it. Did the players decide that they were changing it 2nd half or did Pardew say something at half time? Not everybody was caught up in anything earlier in the season other than the ones who thought that we were better than we actually are. Even then, I think some people wanted us to be better than we are rather than thought it and I don't blame anybody for that because we all want to be better than we are, or at least we should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't understand what the point of coming on the forum is if all you're going to do is "we're 6th, stop moaning" or that "player A is simply playing crap, no other explanation". The whole point of the football section is for discussion, analysis, criticisms, praise... and people making criticisms based on what they're watching with their own eyes are always going to be relevant. Actually I can sort of understand why people do bury their heads in the sand considering where we are relative to the last 5 years, but it's still daft. I've argued quite passionately in favour of the job Pardew is doing for large spells of the season, even while having criticisms for certain things that he's done. At the moment though, I'm beginning to get completely exasperated with him doing the same things and making the same mistakes. It's worrying and depressing at the same time, even if we do hold the fort and stumble into the Europa League this season I'm struggling to feel positive of what impact we can make in that competition while we're playing this football and I'm struggling to get excited about what new players we'll have when he's misusing all our best ones anyway. Summarises my feelings since Wolves, Mackems and Arsenal. Although i'd only call one of those a bad result, each had the characteristics of a total disaster. Whether it's giving too much respect to the opposition or conceding an injury time goal, they were all a bit of a nightmare. We're at our worst at the moment. Massive test for Pardew this weekend, both in the context of this season and the long-term fan feeling towards Pardew. If Norwich win, he'll be under huge pressure, in spite of the fact we'd still be in the European race. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't understand what the point of coming on the forum is if all you're going to do is "we're 6th, stop moaning" or that "player A is simply playing crap, no other explanation". The whole point of the football section is for discussion, analysis, criticisms, praise... and people making criticisms based on what they're watching with their own eyes are always going to be relevant. Actually I can sort of understand why people do bury their heads in the sand considering where we are relative to the last 5 years, but it's still daft. I've argued quite passionately in favour of the job Pardew is doing for large spells of the season, even while having criticisms for certain things that he's done. At the moment though, I'm beginning to get completely exasperated with him doing the same things and making the same mistakes. It's worrying and depressing at the same time, even if we do hold the fort and stumble into the Europa League this season I'm struggling to feel positive of what impact we can make in that competition while we're playing this football and I'm struggling to get excited about what new players we'll have when he's misusing all our best ones anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Pardews tactics were spot on yesterday. One bad decision in the last minute has cost the team. Pardew can do f*** all about that Cabaye is a decent player no more no less. He is not the world beater he was made out to be. Everyone was caught up in the furore of our start and attributed a lot of it to him and Ba as the new players, when in fact it was whole team improvement The formation was correct yes but if you think having 30% possession second half and basically being attacked again and again,hoping for arsenal to miss one of their twenty chances is spot on then I disagree.spot on would have been instructing the players to move it around,keep it down,work it about and maintain some kind of presence in the game instead of just giving it away,getting into a defensive position then letting them attack again.we had no attacking game plan in the second half,none whatsoever,we were just inviting their goal all half.that's not spot on man,not at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What can be attributed towards Pardew is entirely the debate though. What you believe about that is determined moreso by bias than much else. Arsenal for example, there are alternative explanations as to why our side didnt keep the ball down in a similar way in the 2nd half against a side who recently thrashed spurs 5-2 via dominating the 2nd half. There is more to football than simply the instructions the manager gives, players do have their own brains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Pardews tactics were spot on yesterday. One bad decision in the last minute has cost the team. Pardew can do fuck all about that Cabaye is a decent player no more no less. He is not the world beater he was made out to be. Everyone was caught up in the furore of our start and attributed a lot of it to him and Ba as the new players, when in fact it was whole team improvement Even if we'd escaped with the point firmly in our swag bag the tactics were not spot on, they were aimless and cowardly. At no point did we try to make a genuine match of it and a number of our players were taking liberties with regards to time wasting as early as the first fucking half. A completely inexplicable attitude when we're playing a side that according to the manager we were chasing a result against. There's nowt wrong with being conservative, keeping it tight and playing to a gameplan but we were clueless for the entirety of the second half. Lumping long balls forward and it coming straight back at us time and time again, only for them to miss chances and waste great positions time and time again is not a good gameplan. Pardew's spiel all week was how we wanted to have a go and win the game, because he felt we had an outside chance of the Champions League. Another case of him talking the good talk but doing something completely different in terms of his actions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 "World beater" Has anyone ever actually said that about any player in history? But it wasn't just Shearer's goal-scoring ability that caught the eye. He knew how to back into defenders, his first touch was always spot on and an awareness of those around him belied his years. After the match I remarked to my Arsenal team-mates that this lad was heading for the very top. They agreed he had talent but were not altogether convinced that he would become the world beater I predicted. Alan Smith - Daily Telegraph 1997 I really believe Stewart Downing has it in him to be a world-beater. Alan Hansen - BBC Alan Pardew had him looking like a world beater at Newcastle where the team tailored their style of play to allow the big Geordie to thrive. The Media powerhouse that is the Mid Ulster Mail on AC9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What can be attributed towards Pardew is entirely the debate though. What you believe about that is determined moreso by bias than much else. Arsenal for example, there are alternative explanations as to why our side didnt keep the ball down in a similar way in the 2nd half against a side who recently thrashed spurs 5-2 via dominating the 2nd half. There is more to football than simply the instructions the manager gives, players do have their own brains. Players do have their own brains but if they are told to do something as a collective then it's going to be a struggle for any individual to change that. Are you suggesting that the manager said something and the players came out and changed how he wanted us to play between leaving the dressing room and kick off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I agree with some of that Jayson,some players just don't respond to coaching,obertan being one but when we have played this style of football most of the season against all types of opposition,Brighton included,it makes me conclude that Pardew is setting them up that way,with Keegan we'd be playing dominant,possession based football and pushing the other team about not lumping it and hoping Ba would save our asses because that's what happened a lot early season.watch back some of those early performances and we played like this a lot of the time.the difference was,we could say the team was gelling,we're getting points.thugs have changed andog term success is bred on good football,simple as that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What can be attributed towards Pardew is entirely the debate though. What you believe about that is determined moreso by bias than much else. Arsenal for example, there are alternative explanations as to why our side didnt keep the ball down in a similar way in the 2nd half against a side who recently thrashed spurs 5-2 via dominating the 2nd half. There is more to football than simply the instructions the manager gives, players do have their own brains. Players do have their own brains but if they are told to do something as a collective then it's going to be a struggle for any individual to change that. Are you suggesting that the manager said something and the players came out and changed how he wanted us to play between leaving the dressing room and kick off? I think that you could equally explain it by saying some of our defenders simply make the wrong choices on the ball after sustaining strong periods of pressure. It takes a calmness & level of belief to get battered for a period and come out of that wanting to keep the ball at your feet as a defender and pass it around slowly. Especially to think you can do that against Arsenal. Player mentality could also simply be the reason we resort to this stuff, its not an obvious thing either way atall. People blame Pardew for Wolves. But we instantly sat back after our second goal as a team, we stopped pushing fowards as much & started accepting the pressure long before half time. Just as Milan did against Arsenal recently, its a common thing that happens often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think that you could equally explain it by saying some of our defenders simply make the wrong choices on the ball after sustaining strong periods of pressure. It takes a calmness & level of belief to get battered for a period and come out of that wanting to keep the ball at your feet as a defender and pass it around slowly. Especially to think you can do that against Arsenal. Player mentality could also simply be the reason we resort to this stuff, its not an obvious thing either way atall. People blame Pardew for Wolves. But we instantly sat back after our second goal as a team, we stopped pushing fowards as much & started accepting the pressure long before half time. Just as Milan did against Arsenal recently, its a common thing that happens often. We weren't battered in the first half and changed our game the minute they kicked the 2nd half off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not sure we changed system or style of play at all in the second-half, more a case of Arsenal coming out playing much better to me and putting us under more pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 They didn't exactly have to do much to put us under more pressure. We just fucking sat there, lumping long balls up to Ba, apparently for Obertan to chase, even though he was yards behind Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree with some of that Jayson,some players just don't respond to coaching,obertan being one but when we have played this style of football most of the season against all types of opposition,Brighton included,it makes me conclude that Pardew is setting them up that way,with Keegan we'd be playing dominant,possession based football and pushing the other team about not lumping it and hoping Ba would save our asses because that's what happened a lot early season.watch back some of those early performances and we played like this a lot of the time.the difference was,we could say the team was gelling,we're getting points.thugs have changed andog term success is bred on good football,simple as that TBH. we have been playing Hoofing and crossing as the primary tactic all season, its just whether you see it or you don't. Recently when the percentage football isnt working as much, more has came to see the type of football we play and can clearly see its demerits. I am sure many will hop back on the Pardew's Wagon when we start winning and finish high up the table irregardless of how we play. Well in reality the world has too many Muppets, so its not surprising. Just for the sake of analyzing Pardews Tactics and why its not working as well as earlier in the season. He is missing Leon best, his formation and tactics works better with two strong,aggressive,robust and hardworking outlets looking for a cross or a hoof to shield the ball to play it back to midfield so it could push up. I dont rate Best as a long term striker in this team, but the honest answer is he suits this play much better than most of the players we have. Forcefully fitting the players into this set up probably would not work too well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree with some of that Jayson,some players just don't respond to coaching,obertan being one but when we have played this style of football most of the season against all types of opposition,Brighton included,it makes me conclude that Pardew is setting them up that way,with Keegan we'd be playing dominant,possession based football and pushing the other team about not lumping it and hoping Ba would save our asses because that's what happened a lot early season.watch back some of those early performances and we played like this a lot of the time.the difference was,we could say the team was gelling,we're getting points.thugs have changed andog term success is bred on good football,simple as that TBH. we have been playing Hoofing and crossing as the primary tactic all season, its just whether you see it or you don't. Recently when the percentage football isnt working as much, more has came to see the type of football we play and can clearly see its demerits. I am sure many will hop back on the Pardew's Wagon when we start winning and finish high up the table irregardless of how we play. Well in reality the world has too many Muppets, so its not surprising. Just for the sake of analyzing Pardews Tactics and why its not working as well as earlier in the season. He is missing Leon best, his formation and tactics works better with two strong,aggressive,robust and hardworking outlets looking for a cross or a hoof to shield the ball to play it back to midfield so it could push up. I dont rate Best as a long term striker in this team, but the honest answer is he suits this play much better than most of the players we have. Forcefully fitting the players into this set up probably would not work too well. some see what isn't there though. 'primary tactic all season', what crap! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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