Guest Dontooner Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Its obvious from whats been said Pardews strengths are more towards the defensive side of things. Defensively we've been brilliant this season. It sounds like Carver is in charge of our attacking player & that generally lacks of kind of flowing movement. Comparing the strengths of our side though, its potentially better we have a manager very capable at sorting our weakest area. Bar a Deflected goal, missed penalty & last minute failure we'd have taken 7 points from our last 3. Last season we let in 1.5 goals per game, this season we've let in 1.464 goals per game. Not bad considering we work on defence 80% of the time. Its not a balance approach to train 80% of the time on defensive duties, maybe what is more worrying to me if we have the right people in place to coach the attacking part of the game which seems to pass us by. We might need a better coach every friday of the week...seems like a pretty decent job working one day weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The system has almost certainly affected Cabaye (and others). I realise it often comes across as defending them because they're foreign and technical, but it is so true. He's playing an unfamiliar role in a team playing direct football to strikers incapable of playing to the direct system. He's just left buzzing around deep and waiting to anticipate balls. Obviously doesn't help with our lack of defensive technique and confidence to play it out, though. What are you talking about man? That is just based on what you think. Jayson has probably explained how this has nothing to do with our manager 20 pages ago. Lets try to comprehend what the word conviction means and how that could differ from person to person. I am probably more pro Pardew than many still, i am open to his flaws though. Some of you are completely blind to any strengths he holds atall, it becomes tedious. Jayson I can't help remembering your slaughtering of Coloccini in the early days and my difference of opinion with you then during a match thread. I don't think you see the bigger picture, you didn't back then and I don't see any sign that much has changed really. I didnt rate him much really yeah, thought most people were going over the top due to a few good performances that had been outweighed by that point with poor ones. Our midfield was garbage, but he had individual moments where he was just beaten to easily. But yeah hes adjusted brilliantly since. Thats one of many situations isnt it, everyone has been wrong. You included. Form is temporary. Class is permanent. When you look beyond the stats and use your eyes to judge a player all will prove true in the end. Unless you don't have a clue to start with. Irrelevant generic statements with little meaning finishing with a pointess dig yeah, class welldone Let me put it more more simply then. Either you can recognise a good player or you can't. It doesn't surprise me that you are a Pardew fan based on previous history though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Its obvious from whats been said Pardews strengths are more towards the defensive side of things. Defensively we've been brilliant this season. It sounds like Carver is in charge of our attacking player & that generally lacks of kind of flowing movement. Comparing the strengths of our side though, its potentially better we have a manager very capable at sorting our weakest area. Bar a Deflected goal, missed penalty & last minute failure we'd have taken 7 points from our last 3. Last season we let in 1.5 goals per game, this season we've let in 1.464 goals per game. Not bad considering we work on defence 80% of the time. It is more relevant to look at the number of games we've only needed to score more than once to win. So far theres been 7 of those from the 25 games with 2 fit CB's. Games vs Spurs twice, Man city, Lpool, Arsenal, Fulham & Wolves. Again of those take away pens/deflected goals & only 4 have managed it. Lpool, Fulham, Spurs & now arsenal in the last minute. In comparison to 17 games we conceded more than once last season. Im afraid Pardews actually made us very very hard to beat in open play. As yesterday showed again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The Premiership managers took part in a Barclays survey on various topics and Pardew wasn't even mentioned in the Manager of the Season category. Not saying that he should be, but I'm surprised other professionals felt that way too. The research — carried out by Barclays, title sponsor of the League Managers' Association — has Swansea's Brendan Rodgers and Norwich chief Paul Lambert way ahead of United's Alex Ferguson, City's Roberto Mancini and Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger as the best managers of the season. Judging by some of the results, I doubt it's been done recently though http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4192768/Prem-managers-love-Spurs-but-reckon-City-will-win-the-title.html (it lets you enlarge a picture to see all results) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Take away deflected goals? Take headers off too while you're at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thats your argument after reading that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Massively miniscule point to pick up on. But uh see with headers and deflections, one tends to involve a level of luck. It isnt as indicative of whether a defensive system has on the whole done enough to lessen a goalscoring chance, as a keepers is more easily beaten when the course of a ball is changed significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The system has almost certainly affected Cabaye (and others). I realise it often comes across as defending them because they're foreign and technical, but it is so true. He's playing an unfamiliar role in a team playing direct football to strikers incapable of playing to the direct system. He's just left buzzing around deep and waiting to anticipate balls. Obviously doesn't help with our lack of defensive technique and confidence to play it out, though. What are you talking about man? That is just based on what you think. Jayson has probably explained how this has nothing to do with our manager 20 pages ago. Lets try to comprehend what the word conviction means and how that could differ from person to person. I am probably more pro Pardew than many still, i am open to his flaws though. Some of you are completely blind to any strengths he holds atall, it becomes tedious. Jayson I can't help remembering your slaughtering of Coloccini in the early days and my difference of opinion with you then during a match thread. I don't think you see the bigger picture, you didn't back then and I don't see any sign that much has changed really. I didnt rate him much really yeah, thought most people were going over the top due to a few good performances that had been outweighed by that point with poor ones. Our midfield was garbage, but he had individual moments where he was just beaten to easily. But yeah hes adjusted brilliantly since. Thats one of many situations isnt it, everyone has been wrong. You included. Form is temporary. Class is permanent. When you look beyond the stats and use your eyes to judge a player all will prove true in the end. Unless you don't have a clue to start with. Irrelevant generic statements with little meaning finishing with a pointess dig yeah, class welldone Let me put it more more simply then. Either you can recognise a good player or you can't. It doesn't surprise me that you are a Pardew fan based on previous history though. One of your first posts on the forum involves you talking about Luques obvious class. All your future opinions are now discredited by your own argument. Clever as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Lies, damned lies and statistics. As for the bit about luck, there have been plenty of instances where we were lucky not to concede as well, so what's wrong with including deflected goals if you want an accurate measurement of our team's defensive performance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Massively miniscule point to pick up on. But uh see with headers and deflections, one tends to involve a level of luck. It isnt as indicative of whether a defensive system has on the whole done enough to lessen a goalscoring chance, as a keepers is more easily beaten when the course of a ball is changed significantly. then you need to start adding the number of times the opposition (and us) have hit the woodwork, number of penalties given/not given, why not count shots on target that deflected off target as means to prove we'd have scored/conceded more? and so on, it's too arbitrary a stat to use to prove anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Getting in the way of shots is just defending, largely doing that results in you not conceding. So its unluckier for me when it happens in such a way that of all the directons/angles, it specifically loops the one place your keeper has no chance. I dont see that as a sign of a defensive system failing. Pens is more towards individual error again for me, times theyve hit the woodwork you have a point on yeah. If i include the deflected goal though. Its still only 5 games from 25 with 2 fit Cb's we've conceded more than once in a game - pens. His defensive system has given us a 4/5 chance of winning games if we can score more than once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 suppose i meant erroneous or disputable penalties either way rather than just penalties Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Cabayes been crap. The reasons for explaining that depend on your bias for or against Pardew and little reasoning beyond that. All these things can easily be argued both ways, just like the way the Arsenal game went. No one has any idea what actually went down in terms of our play, its all a load of bollocks. I find it laughable that some* people think they can argue against our current manager with such a sense of conviction in what they post Worst post of the year, particularly 'no one has any idea what actually went on in terms of our play'. Congratulations, that's quite staggering. Blows my mind that people can watch football without actually watching it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Some of the excuses in here are simply breath taking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Cabayes been crap. The reasons for explaining that depend on your bias for or against Pardew and little reasoning beyond that. All these things can easily be argued both ways, just like the way the Arsenal game went. No one has any idea what actually went down in terms of our play, its all a load of bollocks. I find it laughable that some* people think they can argue against our current manager with such a sense of conviction in what they post Worst post of the year, particularly 'no one has any idea what actually went on in terms of our play'. Congratulations, that's quite staggering. Blows my mind that people can watch football without actually watching it. You've ignored the following discussion on that then yeah, brilliant. As i said before, its not obvious what is specifically down to Pards instructions vs a players individual reaction to a series of events. Many also said we played hoofball in the 2nd half vs Arsenal, rewatch the 2nd half and tell me how many times our defence kicks it long. See if it blows your mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Lads, we can talk all we like about deflected goals, headers and defensive stats etc but imo there's a more pressing issue. Are we creating enough chances to win games? Against teams like Wolves, Swansea etc, was there anything resembling a coherent game plan that resulted in us scoring enough goals to win? With the players we've got, should we be expecting to beat teams like those mentioned at home? (yes I know football doesn't always work like that). The fact that the Pardew thread has fallen into a debate about defensive stats speaks volumes! Ok so at times we've conceded goals you could deem as unlucky, that wouldn't be such a problem if the manager had spent any time working with the team on how to break the opposition down would it? Because we could potentially go back and have another go, with an idea about how to score again. While I agree with Madras that long ball hasn't been our main tactic this season, I think there has been one. 'dont concede and give it to Ba'. I've been saying this for months and the stuff from Carver sort of backs it up doesn't it, 80% on defensive training ffs. I'm still holding onto a bit of hope that he'll reasses our priorities next season when we've got better ball playing defenders but it's fading fast, some are in for a shock I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Cabayes been crap. The reasons for explaining that depend on your bias for or against Pardew and little reasoning beyond that. All these things can easily be argued both ways, just like the way the Arsenal game went. No one has any idea what actually went down in terms of our play, its all a load of bollocks. I find it laughable that some* people think they can argue against our current manager with such a sense of conviction in what they post Worst post of the year, particularly 'no one has any idea what actually went on in terms of our play'. Congratulations, that's quite staggering. Blows my mind that people can watch football without actually watching it. You've ignored the following discussion on that then yeah, brilliant. As i said before, its not obvious what is specifically down to Pards instructions vs a players individual reaction to a series of events. Many also said we played hoofball in the 2nd half vs Arsenal, rewatch the 2nd half and tell me how many times our defence kicks it long. See if it blows your mind. I read the following discussion after I quoted your post. Its obvious to me that a manager has a massive influence over the way his team plays and the entire performance against Arsenal (I thought we looked just as useless in the first half, we just had more of the ball in the middle and did nothing with it) is symptomatic of Pardews disregard for progressive attacking football that'll open up space. There's a bigger picture to be considered apart from the Arsenal performance and how much we do or don't play long ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Norwich really is a Pivitol game not only for us, but for him. If we dont get the 3 points he will probably be under the most pressure sine he got here imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 This "long ball 2nd half" is an absolute load of bs Im rewatching the 2nd half right now. 60 mins and our defence has kicked it long once. Krul plays a FK short to Colo, who passes to Perch, who takes to long & is pressured, leaves a short pass to Colo who is also pressured & he then boots it long. The only person booting it is Krul on goalkicks. We were literally just dominated by Arsenal from the start. No longball gameplan whatsoever. WOW, we passed it once instead of going long. Yeah that makes us Barcelona. Explain how did Krul do 36 long balls all game then..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Norwich really is a Pivitol game not only for us, but for him. If we dont get the 3 points he will probably be under the most pressure sine he got here imo. According to the table he is doing fantastic, I don`t think he would be under any pressure unless we went on a slide below what would consistute a a decent season. That means 15th`ish Imo. Pressure from fans, yes. Pressure from Mike an Derek, no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Every non-Newcastle fan I speak to is amazed that we're anything other than ecstatic TBH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Norwich really is a Pivitol game not only for us, but for him. If we dont get the 3 points he will probably be under the most pressure sine he got here imo. According to the table he is doing fantastic, I don`t think he would be under any pressure unless we went on a slide below what would consistute a a decent season. That means 15th`ish Imo. Pressure from fans, yes. Pressure from Mike an Derek, no. 15th ish is a decent season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Every non-Newcastle fan I speak to is amazed that we're anything other than ecstatic TBH. Yeah, and if i just looking on the table, i am ecstatic. Problem is that i have watched every match this year. I am very happy with our position, but have doubts where we are heading with our football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Every non-Newcastle fan I speak to is amazed that we're anything other than ecstatic TBH. Yeah, I've had this a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Every non-Newcastle fan I speak to is amazed that we're anything other than ecstatic TBH. I'm not surprised in the slightest, our league position is great, our performances are worrying though and have been for some time, simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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