Alan Pardew

[Guest Deadmau5]

 

 

Nobody is, but we're saying it is effective, in effect arguing that we are content to let substance supersede style as long as we continue to pick up points.

 

Has it got to be one or the other?

 

Yes, its either this or Wigan/Blackpool with relegation attached, take your pick

[Guest]

Course not, but there's no guarantee changing style at this point would continue to get points. I'm more than happy to get to the summer like this, then continue signing players we have the last two windows, and play better stuff more consistently next season.

[Guest Deadmau5]

Course not, but there's no guarantee changing style at this point would continue to get points. I'm more than happy to get to the summer like this, then continue signing players we have the last two windows, and play better stuff more consistently next season.

 

Two big assumptions there.

 

1. Trying to play fotball will probably fail.

2. We will start playing champagne fotball over the summer.

 

Is there any historical evidence with Pardew that point 2. will happen, based on his previous track record?

At some point we will have to start playing proper fotball again, won't we?

 

 

Won't we guys?...

 

 

[Benwell Lad]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

So true.

So many people on here when our fans got/get derided in the media for "demanding an attacking brand of football"/"the Geordies would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" claimed that to be the media ganging up on us/not knowing their arse from their elbow/talking s*** etc. Now we have a manager under whom for the majority of the season we have ground out scrappy, 1-0 wins with good team defending, as well as good football and some great goals in part, and so many people on here are complaining about it.

Yeah, take your point, the football isn't particularly inspiring and with out first XI there's room for improvement and it's frustrating to see that denied us, but at the end of the day you're living up to the stereotypes that David Craig, Louise Taylor et al set for us having bashed them as inaccurate in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pardew can have us playing a formation of 10-0-0 for all I care as long as keep winning, because as a fan of Newcastle United I love it when we win. I'm a fan of Newcastle United first, and tasty football involving Newcastle United second.

 

 

Great post.

Somehow the ridiculous 4-3 myth still prevails to some extent but probably only in the minds of the same people who don't call the stadium SJP. i.e. no one who watches Newcastle regularly or really matters.

In reality the football we are playing, even now, is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be by some on here. We are playing decent stuff in patches but to play it out of defence all the time you need confident defenders. Right now we have one of those.

[Parky]

Football is simple. If the MF are too deep there is nobody to pass to BUT the forwards.

 

It's that simple it's what's been going on. And when they do venture forward too much Pards sends Shola on to TELL THEM OFF. Seen it a few times now, Shola pointing at Tiote and telling him to stay back.

 

Our wingers spend most of the game (not all) as def wingers. Again Pards isn't confident that if we pushed up the park the def could handle the counter. These are the nuts and bolts of what's going on. That little ball Guti played to Cisse the other day reminded me that he is a full Argentinian international. I'd rather see more of that.

 

You can see when Hatem casually starts causing havoc in the opp half he rarely has more than one pass on as the bulk of the side are sitting back.

[Theregulars]

 

 

Nobody is, but we're saying it is effective, in effect arguing that we are content to let substance supersede style as long as we continue to pick up points.

 

Has it got to be one or the other?

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

[Mick]

Course not, but there's no guarantee changing style at this point would continue to get points. I'm more than happy to get to the summer like this, then continue signing players we have the last two windows, and play better stuff more consistently next season.

 

Is there any guarantee that we'll continue to pick up points if we carry on playing the same way?

[Guest Deadmau5]

 

 

Nobody is, but we're saying it is effective, in effect arguing that we are content to let substance supersede style as long as we continue to pick up points.

 

Has it got to be one or the other?

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Pretty stark perception of reality really. Personally I think we have a squad capable of both serving up decent fotball and picking up points while doing it too. Clearly you disagree.

[Spudil]

Well Jayson I answered your question. Now, did you have a point or was I wasting my time?

 

[Theregulars]

Football is simple. If the MF are too deep there is nobody to pass to BUT the forwards.

 

It's that simple it's what's been going on. And when they do venture forward too much Pards sends Shola on to TELL THEM OFF. Seen it a few times now, Shola pointing at Tiote and telling him to stay back.

 

Our winger spend most of the game (not all) as def wingers. Again Pards isn't confident that if we pushed up the park the def could handle the counter. These are the nuts and bolts of what's going on. That little ball Guti played to Cisse the other day reminded me that he is a full Argentinian international. I'd rather see more of that.

 

I'd rather see more of that too, but not at the expense of winning. If Pardew, who probably knows more about tactics and football in general than most people on here, who also sees these players every day in training, thinks that we are vulnerable on the counter-attack, then that's his prerogative and his decision to take as the manager of our football club and, with our league position, he's entirely justified. I personally would not like to see a counter-attack by any left winger against Danny Simpson. It will be interesting to see whether this philosophy changes if Pardew is granted a better right-back, for instance.

Also, while as above I'd like to see more lovely football like Jonas' cross to Cisse, there were a few examples of that (Cabaye's ball to Demba for Ruddy's save). Pardew's philosophy, I think, is that the quality in the team means that moments like that will happen a few times in the game, and, with signing Ba and Cisse, we have finishers of sufficient quality to execute the chances to grab us at least 1-2 goals most games, and then a defence/team defending philosophy to see it out. Like it or not, it's working well.

[Mick]

 

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Not a single person is suggesting that winning isn't better than entertaining, some of us thinks we can play better without negatively affecting our results.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I for one iam very happy with what Pardew and his coaching staff have done this season, yes i would like to see much better football while winning games because i believe we are well capable of it.

 

The negative play since the new year is Pardew realising that we could get europe so taking as little chances as possible at risk of falling outside of the european places.

 

Do i agree with it? no not at all but i understand why one could take that approach when under pressure.

 

Next season hopefully with a bigger squad and the experience of going through the run-in we will see better standard of football combined with results.

 

 

[SEMTEX]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

 

And the 8 matches before that? Very selective statistics there.

 

since the turn of the year

 

 

 

Great post by Deadmau5 like.

[Theregulars]

 

 

Nobody is, but we're saying it is effective, in effect arguing that we are content to let substance supersede style as long as we continue to pick up points.

 

Has it got to be one or the other?

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Pretty stark perception of reality really. Personally I think we have a squad capable of both serving up decent fotball and picking up points while doing it too. Clearly you disagree.

 

I don't think it's a stark perception at all. My point clearly states that my preference is for both winning and entertaining football, but if one isn't apparent, i'd rather it be entertainment. I think we have the players to play some decent football - if you read my posting history you will pick this up - but my point was that, if the manager does not make that happen, as long as we are winning then I'm inclined to sacrifice the entertainment side. I would dearly love for your ideal to come true and for our time to play blindingly and spank teams off the park regularly. But most teams in the league are pretty decent too, and not that far off us (in the way we're not far off 4th/5th), so caution isn't something to be roundly criticised.

[durhamunigeordie]

 

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Not a single person is suggesting that winning isn't better than entertaining, some of us thinks we can play better without negatively affecting our results.

 

Exactly. Krul time wasting was embarrassing yesterday. We looked quite good for about the first half hour, but then just tried to shut up shop and win the game 1-0. Against teams who we are at least the equals of footballing wise, we should be trying to go on and kill the game.

[Theregulars]

 

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Not a single person is suggesting that winning isn't better than entertaining, some of us thinks we can play better without negatively affecting our results.

 

A good point. Perhaps Pardew is going for the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' approach. I don't think it's a given that we wouldn't suffer if we played better football, and to be fair to the manager there is evidence to back it up. We got spanked by Fulham trying to pass it around, and Chelsea picked us apart on the counter. However, there are also examples where we likely would have got more points if we played more daring and attractive football, so the point is a circular one.

I also never said people were suggesting entertaining was better than winning, but people who bemoaned the lack of entertainment did not set sufficient stock in the fact that we are winning.

[Theregulars]

 

 

I have never said that and I don't think anybody else is. The point is that, while winning AND entertaining football is the ideal, the reality is we are not getting both, and for me/others winning>entertaining.

 

Not a single person is suggesting that winning isn't better than entertaining, some of us thinks we can play better without negatively affecting our results.

 

Exactly. Krul time wasting was embarrassing yesterday. We looked quite good for about the first half hour, but then just tried to shut up shop and win the game 1-0. Against teams who we are at least the equals of footballing wise, we should be trying to go on and kill the game.

 

Shutting up shop is a method of killing the game which can be just as effective as going for the jugular.

[Guest Deadmau5]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

 

And the 8 matches before that? Very selective statistics there.

 

since the turn of the year

 

 

 

Great post by Deadmau5 like.

 

 

It was in response to the "65 points a year"  while ignoring the fact that we had just come off an 8-game streak returning 5 points, hence the selective statistics comment.

[Guest BooBoo]

For me, Pardew doesn't trust the defence enough (with good cause!) and has instructed the engine room to stay deep resulting in his having minimal threat from midfield and isolating our strikers.

 

Next year, if we have a decent pair of fullbacks and Saylor back with Colo, then I would expect a marked improvement.

[alpal78]

August - DWW - 7 points out of 9

September - DDW - 5 points out of 9

October - WDWW - 10 points out of 12

November - WLD - 4 points out of 9

December - LLDLWL - 4 points out of 18

January - WWL - 6 points out of 9

February - WWLD - 7 points out of 12

March (so far) - DLW - 4 points out of 9

 

Felt like putting the results for the season in one place.

 

Let me just put this up here instead of the usual battle for 7th thread. This uses the formula that Pip provided in the OP of that read where the suggestion is that to get top 7 (58 points), we need to i) beat all teams at home except for the top 6, ii) draw with those 6 teams at home and iii) draw with all teams away except the top 6. The last time we got less points then 'we should' was December. At other times, we have either got the points we should or exceeded it. Our cumulative difference (i.e. between what is expected and what is obtained throughout the season is also at an all time low). Anyone who can't see that our form in Feb & March has taken a dive is rather blind.

 

URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/footballmarch.jpg/]http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6654/footballmarch.jpg[/url]

 

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[Parky]

It's like how graphite rackets destroyed tennis. Most PL football is all about running about now and intensity and fitness and hot zones and all that crap. It's fukin boring. Might as well not use a ball, just 11 v 11 long distance running.

[Guest Deadmau5]

For me, Pardew doesn't trust the defence enough (with good cause!) and has instructed the engine room to stay deep resulting in his having minimal threat from midfield and isolating our strikers.

 

Next year, if we have a decent pair of fullbacks and Saylor back with Colo, then I would expect a marked improvement.

 

The point about simpson, ryan taylor and Williamson causing us to have to go turtlemode for 80 minutes every game is somewhat acceptable

 

 

 

 

 

 

had it not beenfor the small fact that

 

 

 

 

 

 

we are handing out new contracts to the very players dragging the entire team down?

[Mick]

 

 

A good point. Perhaps Pardew is going for the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' approach. I don't think it's a given that we wouldn't suffer if we played better football, and to be fair to the manager there is evidence to back it up. We got spanked by Fulham trying to pass it around, and Chelsea picked us apart on the counter. However, there are also examples where we likely would have got more points if we played more daring and attractive football, so the point is a circular one.

I also never said people were suggesting entertaining was better than winning, but people who bemoaned the lack of entertainment did not set sufficient stock in the fact that we are winning.

 

We were all over Fulham and we were 1-0 at half time, 2nd half we didn't play well and got slaughtered and weren't trying to pass it around in that half.

[SUPERTOON]

The most positive thing for me from yesterday was Pardew's post match interview. For the first time he actually said we are not playing well, and not creating enough for the strikers. Just glad that he admitted it, now i can see him trying to do something about it, wheras before, it seemed he just couldn't see how bad we where.

[Ronaldo]

For me, Pardew doesn't trust the defence enough (with good cause!) and has instructed the engine room to stay deep resulting in his having minimal threat from midfield and isolating our strikers.

 

Next year, if we have a decent pair of fullbacks and Saylor back with Colo, then I would expect a marked improvement.

 

The point about simpson, ryan taylor and Williamson causing us to have to go turtlemode for 80 minutes every game is somewhat acceptable

 

 

 

 

 

 

had it not beenfor the small fact that

 

 

 

 

 

 

we are handing out new contracts to the very players dragging the entire team down?

 

What the hell are you talking about?