John Carver

[Lotus]

  On 08/02/2015 at 20:27, Ian W said:

Bringing on Obertan is always going to get the manager stick, but the fact is he did alright when he came on and played a key part in the goal. One embarrassing situation when he was through on goal aside.

 

Leaving on Perez was also a positive move. I didn't like to see Cabella go off, but overall I thought the subs were absolutely fine.

 

I don't like Carver but he doesn't deserve much stick for the subs.

 

Don't agree personally. Gouffran or Riviere would and always will be better sub options than Obertan. There's never a reason to bring him as he can offer nothing constructive beyond what anyone else on the books could do.

[Collage]

  On 09/02/2015 at 09:26, samag said:

Just Alan Pardew with a Geordie Accent. no better at all

 

Nah, seems to be a difference in approach/playing style actually.

[nufc4eva]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:15, Collage said:

  Quote

Just Alan Pardew with a Geordie Accent. no better at all

 

Nah, seems to be a difference in approach/playing style actually.

 

Still utter garbage, although giving Cabella more of a role is nice to see and he has looked much better, pity Carver won't pick him ever again

[mrmojorisin75]

people were defending those subs yesterday aye? 

 

we look a bit more inclined to attack under this prick, and he's giving cabella and anita a chance so there's that but we look just as shit at attacking as we were under pardew....nothing has really changed, he's just got more attacking players in the right places so sometimes it's going to pay off (hull)

 

looks full of wrong decisions/indecision to me...genuinely fear for this horrific run we're about to embark on

[AyeDubbleYoo]

  On 09/02/2015 at 09:30, Lotus said:

  Quote

Bringing on Obertan is always going to get the manager stick, but the fact is he did alright when he came on and played a key part in the goal. One embarrassing situation when he was through on goal aside.

 

Leaving on Perez was also a positive move. I didn't like to see Cabella go off, but overall I thought the subs were absolutely fine.

 

I don't like Carver but he doesn't deserve much stick for the subs.

 

Don't agree personally. Gouffran or Riviere would and always will be better sub options than Obertan. There's never a reason to bring him as he can offer nothing constructive beyond what anyone else on the books could do.

 

I don't really care about this debate because I don't rate the three of them, but what can the other two offer? Gouffran, nothing, Riviere, nobody knows but he's not a midfielder. IMO there's little between them in terms of ability or potential to affect the game, just Obertan is more of a figure of ridicule.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Carver does seem to want to start out well by getting at teams, rather than feeling the game out, it's just his utter incompetence means he looks clueless as fuck when we run out of ideas and/or teams make changes to shut down some of our dangerous players.

[Collage]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:19, nufc4eva said:

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Just Alan Pardew with a Geordie Accent. no better at all

 

Nah, seems to be a difference in approach/playing style actually.

 

Still utter garbage, although giving Cabella more of a role is nice to see and he has looked much better, pity Carver won't pick him ever again

 

Agree it's still not looking good, just saying he seems more attacking minded. Cabella has enjoyed a revival as well as Haidara.

[mrmojorisin75]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:22, Ian W said:

  Quote

  Quote

Bringing on Obertan is always going to get the manager stick, but the fact is he did alright when he came on and played a key part in the goal. One embarrassing situation when he was through on goal aside.

 

Leaving on Perez was also a positive move. I didn't like to see Cabella go off, but overall I thought the subs were absolutely fine.

 

I don't like Carver but he doesn't deserve much stick for the subs.

 

Don't agree personally. Gouffran or Riviere would and always will be better sub options than Obertan. There's never a reason to bring him as he can offer nothing constructive beyond what anyone else on the books could do.

 

I don't really care about this debate because I don't rate the three of them, but what can the other two offer? Gouffran, nothing, Riviere, nobody knows but he's not a midfielder. IMO there's little between them in terms of ability or potential to affect the game, just Obertan is more of a figure of ridicule.

 

tactically subs should have been:

 

sammy off, cisse on (perez wide left forward, cisse middle, cabella right)

colback off, abeid on (straight swap)

 

the end

 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I agree, ideally.

[mozy]

Are people forgetting that Obertan did create our goal? Anyway, it clearly should have been Sammy to come off with Cabella sliding over.

[BlueStar]

  Quote

Carver does seem to want to start out well by getting at teams, rather than feeling the game out, it's just his utter incompetence means he looks clueless as fuck when we run out of ideas and/or teams make changes to shut down some of our dangerous players.

 

Well luckily for him, he only has to reach the rank of mediocre to be given the job.

[Guest John Carvery]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:38, ManDoon said:

 

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Bringing on Obertan is always going to get the manager stick, but the fact is he did alright when he came on and played a key part in the goal. One embarrassing situation when he was through on goal aside.

 

Leaving on Perez was also a positive move. I didn't like to see Cabella go off, but overall I thought the subs were absolutely fine.

 

I don't like Carver but he doesn't deserve much stick for the subs.

 

Don't agree personally. Gouffran or Riviere would and always will be better sub options than Obertan. There's never a reason to bring him as he can offer nothing constructive beyond what anyone else on the books could do.

 

I don't really care about this debate because I don't rate the three of them, but what can the other two offer? Gouffran, nothing, Riviere, nobody knows but he's not a midfielder. IMO there's little between them in terms of ability or potential to affect the game, just Obertan is more of a figure of ridicule.

 

tactically subs should have been:

 

sammy off, cisse on (perez wide left forward, cisse middle, cabella right)

colback off, abeid on (straight swap)

 

the end

 

Yup.  Feel sorry for Perez he's essentially feeding off scraps, created his only chance for himself which he blazed over.

Your forgetting the other one where he missed narrowly created by cabella iirc. Thought it was in all the way.

[TRon]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:20, mrmojorisin75 said:

people were defending those subs yesterday aye? 

 

we look a bit more inclined to attack under this prick, and he's giving cabella and anita a chance so there's that but we look just as shit at attacking as we were under pardew....nothing has really changed, he's just got more attacking players in the right places so sometimes it's going to pay off (hull)

 

looks full of wrong decisions/indecision to me...genuinely fear for this horrific run we're about to embark on

 

On the face of it he's picking a more attacking line up, but when you watch them the lack of direction and coaching becomes apparent. As with Pardew, we might get into good wide positions, but when the cross comes in there's rarely any players making runs into the box. That will probably change with De Jong coming back but that just highlights that it's down to the players to make a difference as the coaches are absolutely clueless.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Watching Perez is sad, like. Most of his service comes from him chasing things down. He and Cabella obviously have a bit of a connection but they're often too far apart to really hurt teams. That 1-2 in the box they played in the second half could've been good, it might also have helped if we'd have had someone else in the area to create a bit more space for them 

[mrmojorisin75]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:44, TRon said:

  Quote

people were defending those subs yesterday aye? 

 

we look a bit more inclined to attack under this prick, and he's giving cabella and anita a chance so there's that but we look just as shit at attacking as we were under pardew....nothing has really changed, he's just got more attacking players in the right places so sometimes it's going to pay off (hull)

 

looks full of wrong decisions/indecision to me...genuinely fear for this horrific run we're about to embark on

 

On the face of it he's picking a more attacking line up, but when you watch them the lack of direction and coaching becomes apparent. As with Pardew, we might get into good wide positions, but when the cross comes in there's rarely any players making runs into the box. That will probably change with De Jong coming back but that just highlights that it's down to the players to make a difference as the coaches are absolutely clueless.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:37, mozy said:

Are people forgetting that Obertan did create our goal? Anyway, it clearly should have been Sammy to come off with Cabella sliding over.

 

but that goal wasn't created as a result of some great tactical managerial masterstroke, it was right out of the pardew school of "throw bodies on and hope something will change", and as we've spent 4 years finding out it works sometimes but more often than not it will not work

 

the better solution would have been abeid in to control the midfield and stick with the formation and tactics we'd played the last few games instead of totally upsetting the tiny bit of rhythm they did have

[mozy]

  On 09/02/2015 at 10:49, mrmojorisin75 said:

  Quote

Are people forgetting that Obertan did create our goal? Anyway, it clearly should have been Sammy to come off with Cabella sliding over.

 

but that goal wasn't created as a result of some great tactical managerial masterstroke, it was right out of the pardew school of "throw bodies on and hope something will change", and as we've spent 4 years finding out it works sometimes but more often than not it will not work

 

the better solution would have been abeid in to control the midfield and stick with the formation and tactics we'd played the last few games instead of totally upsetting the tiny bit of rhythm they did have

 

Carver's never going to produce anything approacing intelligent, let alone a masterstroke (which he showed by taking off Cabella). But Obertan has useful qualities and I think it would have made sense to take off Sammy, switch Cabella and then have Obertan on the right. Different challenge for each of the tired fullbacks.

[mrmojorisin75]

  On 09/02/2015 at 11:07, mozy said:

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Are people forgetting that Obertan did create our goal? Anyway, it clearly should have been Sammy to come off with Cabella sliding over.

 

but that goal wasn't created as a result of some great tactical managerial masterstroke, it was right out of the pardew school of "throw bodies on and hope something will change", and as we've spent 4 years finding out it works sometimes but more often than not it will not work

 

the better solution would have been abeid in to control the midfield and stick with the formation and tactics we'd played the last few games instead of totally upsetting the tiny bit of rhythm they did have

 

Carver's never going to produce anything approacing intelligent, let alone a masterstroke (which he showed by taking off Cabella). But Obertan has useful qualities and I think it would have made sense to take off Sammy, switch Cabella and then have Obertan on the right. Different challenge for each of the tired fullbacks.

Cisse had to come on up front with Perez dropping deeper/wider. That should have happened at half time.

[TRon]

  On 09/02/2015 at 11:10, mrmojorisin75 said:

  Quote

  Quote

  Quote

Are people forgetting that Obertan did create our goal? Anyway, it clearly should have been Sammy to come off with Cabella sliding over.

 

but that goal wasn't created as a result of some great tactical managerial masterstroke, it was right out of the pardew school of "throw bodies on and hope something will change", and as we've spent 4 years finding out it works sometimes but more often than not it will not work

 

the better solution would have been abeid in to control the midfield and stick with the formation and tactics we'd played the last few games instead of totally upsetting the tiny bit of rhythm they did have

 

Carver's never going to produce anything approacing intelligent, let alone a masterstroke (which he showed by taking off Cabella). But Obertan has useful qualities and I think it would have made sense to take off Sammy, switch Cabella and then have Obertan on the right. Different challenge for each of the tired fullbacks.

Cisse had to come on up front with Perez dropping deeper/wider. That should have happened at half time.

 

Especially as Cisse is one of the few players who will attack the box when the ball comes in from wide.

[arnonel]

what really bugged me about the cabella sub is that not only is he a threat, but he has more tackles per min than any other player, and his pressing is brilliant, so i dont get any argument about brining on the big forehead.

 

Also, in 1 single game Perez played lone striker, number 10 and left wing due to the subs.

[Lush Vlad]

I'm not sure why I am surprised.  But I actually paid full attention for once yesterday, so clearly noticed it a lot more.  I really am shocked that a team like Stoke, can come to SJP and play us off the park for long periods.  They actually managed to string a lot of passes together and had good movement off the ball.  For long spells, we were chasing shadows in the middle of the park. 

 

We're so ragtag it's unreal.  Players are miles apart, we only look dangerous on the counter attack, due to the likes of Cabella and Perez, or Sissoko being used as a battering ram.  Sammy conjurs up the odd bit of magic or gets tangled up and skins someone what else do we have?  Apart from the long punt up to nobody?  Even when Janmaat and Haidara get forward.  There is never really an option for them.  We just whip in crosses and get a corner (which invariably comes to nothing) if we're lucky  The football is turgid and we have no clue what we're doing 9/10 when attacking. 

[mozy]

Stoke kept the ball like that because they never tried to actively take any kind of risk. Defensive posession football is the worst kind to watch. Swansea under Rodgers were the worst, constantly passing it around the defenders like you do to wind someone up on FIFA.

 

 

[Gallowgate Toon]

  On 09/02/2015 at 11:21, Nath said:

I'm not sure why I am surprised.  But I actually paid full attention for once yesterday, so clearly noticed it a lot more.  I really am shocked that a team like Stoke, can come to SJP and play us off the park for long periods.  They actually managed to string a lot of passes together and had good movement off the ball.  For long spells, we were chasing shadows in the middle of the park. 

 

We're so ragtag it's unreal.  Players are miles apart, we only look dangerous on the counter attack, due to the likes of Cabella and Perez, or Sissoko being used as a battering ram.  Sammy conjurs up the odd bit of magic or gets tangled up and skins someone what else do we have?  Apart from the long punt up to nobody?  Even when Janmaat and Haidara get forward.  There is never really an option for them.  We just whip in crosses and get a corner (which invariably comes to nothing) if we're lucky  The football is turgid and we have no clue what we're doing 9/10 when attacking. 

 

That second paragraph is just spot on. Our movement on the break is decent, but the majority of our players' instincts when we're trying to build moves is just terrible as too many just want the ball to feet. It gets worse when we get towards the box too, often slow to get there, no attempt to speed play up in key wide areas and a lack of bodies and movement when it comes to delivering. We spent large periods of yesterday going at Stoke with 2 or 3 players.

 

Starting Cisse, especially at home, would really help matters. It'd give Ayoze some more room to both play in and attack off the ball, whether he starts at AM or on the left.

[Nobody]

  On 09/02/2015 at 11:29, mozy said:

Stoke kept the ball like that because they never tried to actively take any kind of risk. Defensive posession football is the worst kind to watch. Swansea under Rodgers were the worst, constantly passing it around the defenders like you do to wind someone up on FIFA.

 

 

Said it in the match thread, but that Stoke possession stat was very misleading. Like you said, a lot of it was just passing it around not taking any risks whatsoever, and especially in the first half it felt like they took a minute or two for every fucking throw in, which I assume counts as possession for them.

It did annoy me that in the second half we didn't do more to break up their possession because I thought we looked like a threat when we had the ball, so bringing Abeid on to help control the midfield more would have been ideal.

[TRon]

  On 09/02/2015 at 11:21, Nath said:

I'm not sure why I am surprised.  But I actually paid full attention for once yesterday, so clearly noticed it a lot more.  I really am shocked that a team like Stoke, can come to SJP and play us off the park for long periods.  They actually managed to string a lot of passes together and had good movement off the ball.  For long spells, we were chasing shadows in the middle of the park. 

 

We're so ragtag it's unreal.  Players are miles apart, we only look dangerous on the counter attack, due to the likes of Cabella and Perez, or Sissoko being used as a battering ram.  Sammy conjurs up the odd bit of magic or gets tangled up and skins someone what else do we have?  Apart from the long punt up to nobody?  Even when Janmaat and Haidara get forward.  There is never really an option for them.  We just whip in crosses and get a corner (which invariably comes to nothing) if we're lucky  The football is turgid and we have no clue what we're doing 9/10 when attacking. 

 

Utter lack of coaching for the past 4 years has led to this, and anyone who thinks Geordie boy Charver is going to change that is in for a rude shock. With nothing between his ears, lambasting Cabella for lack of respect is probably the best he can come up with. Followed by a tribute to Bobby Robson and Gary Speed and a chip butty.