John Carver

[Guest Gino14]

People simply don't understand management at all.  It's no miracle that a club is doing terribly and then with a change of manager the same players look ten times better.  The same people blaming our players and putting it all on them will be lining up to praise Tim Sherwood at Villa.  Look how bad they were and the change of the man at the top has made them twice the side they were.  The same goes for people now praising Pardew for the job he did here and saying we shouldn't have gotten rid of him.  How can they say stuff like that and then put it all on the players?  It's total nonsense, from people so thick I wouldn't trust them to tie their own shoes.

 

We got rid of Souness and the feel good factor was so strong we won the next game 3-0.  That's the problem with Carver, he's now a dark cloud hanging over the club and it has been that way for a long time now.  If he stays we go down, if he goes and we appointed no one, we'd still have a better chance of staying up.  Even no tactical plan is better than 'boot it to Willo'.

 

Carver will be lucky to ever have a job after this one and I'm sick of this 'local lad' and 'good football man' stuff that gets trotted out.  It's the rubbish that keeps all these crap failures circling the drain of management for decades longer than they should.  It gets quoted as experience, when in reality you'd be better off trusting unproven ability than proven failure, just because of 'experience.'

 

There's just too many fools involved in Football and none of them seem to properly understand psychology, human nature, or strategy and game theory of any kind.  Sadly there seems to be more in Britain than anywhere else, where all these myths about management and 'good football men' are perpetuated on our TV's every week.  It's holding Newcastle's football back massively and it's the same thing that keeps holding England's football back too.

[BlueStar]

Newcastle remain two points above the relegation zone with what on paper appears an easier run-in compared to their rivals.

 

This is it, completely in our hands and should be piss easy to stay up even with the limited resources available. But we can't even do that and we know it.

 

 

[Kasper]

People simply don't understand management at all.  It's no miracle that a club is doing terribly and then with a change of manager the same players look ten times better.  The same people blaming our players and putting it all on them will be lining up to praise Tim Sherwood at Villa.  Look how bad they were and the change of the man at the top has made them twice the side they were.  The same goes for people now praising Pardew for the job he did here and saying we shouldn't have gotten rid of him.  How can they say stuff like that and then put it all on the players?  It's total nonsense, from people so thick I wouldn't trust them to tie their own shoes.

 

We got rid of Souness and the feel good factor was so strong we won the next game 3-0.  That's the problem with Carver, he's now a dark cloud hanging over the club and it has been that way for a long time now.  If he stays we go down, if he goes and we appointed no one, we'd still have a better chance of staying up.  Even no tactical plan is better than 'boot it to Willo'.

 

Carver will be lucky to ever have a job after this one and I'm sick of this 'local lad' and 'good football man' stuff that gets trotted out.  It's the rubbish that keeps all these crap failures circling the drain of management for decades longer than they should.  It gets quoted as experience, when in reality you'd be better off trusting unproven ability than proven failure, just because of 'experience.'

 

There's just too many fools involved in Football and none of them seem to properly understand psychology, human nature, or strategy and game theory of any kind.  Sadly there seems to be more in Britain than anywhere else, where all these myths about management and 'good football men' are perpetuated on our TV's every week.  It's holding Newcastle's football back massively and it's the same thing that keeps holding England's football back too.

 

Great post. It continues to amaze me how simple the football discussion in England is. It's always so general and just scratching the surface. Seems like most people think that the managers job is to pick a formation, pick the team, "motivate" them and make subsitutions. You rarely see managers talking about anything concrete. It's always "we lacked a bit of urgency" or "we couldnt deal with this or that" or other nonsence.

 

Where's the discussion about actual models of play? And I'm not talking about "playing posession football", "parking the buss" or "lumping it forward". About models that the team has drilled over and over again in practice and that guide everything they do on the pitch. Where they move or look for a pass in a certain situation. Are the players receiving the ball in a body position that is positive and open towards the play? Or are they constantly receiving it in a negative position? (in Newcastle it's the latter)

 

Just for an example my own team (that I support I mean, not play for hah) plays in the 3rd highest division in Finland and this is basicly what the manager said in the match report after winning 1-0 today (free translation).

 

"Worst game we've played since I came here. We didnt work collectively and it was very hard to find any of the models in the game that we've been practicing and succesfully implemented in previous games. Build up was too static and slow. In the build up phase our positions we're constantly negative and impractical. The movements the forwards made were poor. Anticipation, timing and reactions to play in defence were also poor."

 

Jesus. How refreshing it would be to some day hear a Newcastle manager talk about football like this instead of the same old phrases. Someone who actually had an idea of how he wants his team to play football and the knowledge to coach them in a way that they could implement his ideas on the pitch.

 

Maybe the managers are just serving up what the public wants but I would seriously be intrigued to visit the training in Newcastle to see what actually happens there and what kind of things are discussed.

 

 

edit: and to be clear I'm not saying this is typical Finnish football discussion. No way. But considering the level of English football you'd think the talk around it would be a little bit more in depth.

[Guest Gino14]

People simply don't understand management at all.  It's no miracle that a club is doing terribly and then with a change of manager the same players look ten times better.  The same people blaming our players and putting it all on them will be lining up to praise Tim Sherwood at Villa.  Look how bad they were and the change of the man at the top has made them twice the side they were.  The same goes for people now praising Pardew for the job he did here and saying we shouldn't have gotten rid of him.  How can they say stuff like that and then put it all on the players?  It's total nonsense, from people so thick I wouldn't trust them to tie their own shoes.

 

We got rid of Souness and the feel good factor was so strong we won the next game 3-0.  That's the problem with Carver, he's now a dark cloud hanging over the club and it has been that way for a long time now.  If he stays we go down, if he goes and we appointed no one, we'd still have a better chance of staying up.  Even no tactical plan is better than 'boot it to Willo'.

 

Carver will be lucky to ever have a job after this one and I'm sick of this 'local lad' and 'good football man' stuff that gets trotted out.  It's the rubbish that keeps all these crap failures circling the drain of management for decades longer than they should.  It gets quoted as experience, when in reality you'd be better off trusting unproven ability than proven failure, just because of 'experience.'

 

There's just too many fools involved in Football and none of them seem to properly understand psychology, human nature, or strategy and game theory of any kind.  Sadly there seems to be more in Britain than anywhere else, where all these myths about management and 'good football men' are perpetuated on our TV's every week.  It's holding Newcastle's football back massively and it's the same thing that keeps holding England's football back too.

 

Great post. It continues to amaze me how simple the football discussion in England is. It's always so general and just scratching the surface. Seems like most people think that the managers job is to pick a formation, pick the team, "motivate" them and make subsitutions. You rarely see managers talking about anything concrete. It's always "we lacked a bit of urgency" or "we couldnt deal with this or that" or other nonsence.

 

Where's the discussion about actual models of play? And I'm not talking about "playing posession football", "parking the buss" or "lumping it forward". About models that the team has drilled over and over again in practice and that guide everything they do on the pitch. Where they move or look for a pass in a certain situation. Are the players receiving the ball in a body position that is positive and open towards the play? Or are they constantly receiving it in a negative position? (in Newcastle it's the latter)

 

Just for an example my own team plays in the 3rd highest division in Finland and this is basicly what the manager said after winning 1-0 today (free translation).

 

"Worst game we've played since I came here. We didnt work collectively and it was very hard to find any of the models in the game that we've been practicing and succesfully implemented in previous games. Build up was too static and slow. In the build up phase our positions we're constantly negative and impractical. The movements the forwards made were poor. Anticipation, timing and reactions to play in defence were also poor."

 

Jesus. How refreshing it would be to some day hear a Newcastle manager talk about football like this instead of the same old phrases. Someone who actually had an idea of how he wants his team to play football and the knowledge to coach them in a way that they could implement his ideas on the pitch.

 

Maybe the managers are just serving up what the public wants but I would seriously be intrigued to visit the training in Newcastle to see what actually happens there and what kind of things are discussed.

 

 

You see it with Mourinho and the way his teams work.  Every single angle is covered and drilled.  He will tell each player what to do when they have the ball and what to do when they don't have it.  Each player knows where to be on the pitch, when to track a particular man or when to let him go.  You can that this attention to detail, combined with his man management is what's winning titles.  Look at Hazard, he has all the ability in the world, but under Mourinho, he still tracks back, still tackles hard and always know what his defensive duties are.

 

I'm not saying that way is the only way and Mourinho is obviously quite defensive, but managers like Guardiola focus on just as many details while also managing to be more attacking.  Every player knows not just to "keep possession" but also what they're supposed to do with that possession, where and when to spread the play, when to move forward.  They learn and drill these things so they become second nature.

 

At the moment we're a team without a plan.  There's no details, because Carver simply has no capacity to learn and teach them.  The players know this, they know they're heading into games badly prepared and so they have no faith in him.  So then the unprepared nature of things also results in an unprepared and unmotivated team once all faith has drained away.

 

Carver is also so stupid, he's going for the insult to motivate method of management.  These are highly paid and well respected adults, who won't be pushed around.  You can be hard on players, but you can't insult them.  That is management consigned to the scrap heap decades ago, both in Football and all business management.  These players we have are simply on work to rule and have no intention of following Carver.  The problem is that he's slime like everyone at the club and he'll cling on by his finger nails until someone breaks his grip and sends him tumbling away.

[Guest zicomartin]

Tuchel would have said/ thought that.

 

Maybe even Klopp or Garde.

 

But those 3 are/were all free.

 

 

We would rather have McClaren.

 

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Some excellent posts Gino14 and Kasper. Ref Kasper's point, you often get that sort of in depth tactical discussion from Dutch managers too. You can watch a Frank de Boer post match interview and you honestly couldn't say if they had won or lost. It's always as for him the execution of a game plan is more important than the eventualities (refereeing decisions, individual mistakes, opponents' flashes of brilliance, etc.) that happened in the particular game, and I think this is what ultimately decides how seasons pan it. FdB is a bit extreme in this regard as he seems practically unable to express satisfaction, but I think it's how managers over here approach the game more often than not.

[Guest zicomartin]

If only a foreign manager could just come in and magically win the premier league title within one or two years, like a Pellegrini or a Mourinho, then this stupid myth about British managers wouldn't persist.

 

No wait. 

[Ronaldo]

Which myth about British managers?

[JB]

Transcript from HT revealed in The Sun:

 

"You, you little cunt (Perez), when I tell you to do something, and you, you fucking big cunt (Williamson), when I tell you to do something, do it. And if you come back at me, we'll have a fucking right sort-out in here. All right? And you can pair up if you like, and you can fucking pick someone else to help you, and you can bring your fucking paella. 'Cos by the time I've finished with you, you'll fucking need it."

 

 

The scary thing is it's probably on that level.

[Wullie]

It all stems from the same place that sees England/Britain fail to produce technical players ahead of 'graft' and 'passion', there's just a lousy attitude to the game in general imo. Despite the game's popularity, the public in England, by and large, HATE footballers, really hate them. They don't really want to hear about tactics and footballers being told what to do ("the bloody money they're on, they shouldn't need telling!"). They'd rather hear about how hard the lads are working. Coaching is a bit of a dirty word here, a ridiculous idea that footballers need telling how to kick a bloody ball round a field, the lazy overpaid bastards. Carver's assertions the other day that he can't affect what happens on the field aren't far from the level of discourse generally. As a country, we fail to produce sufficient players, managers or fans who are really intelligent about the game.

 

I avoid football chat altogether outside of a couple of mates who I can trust not to talk absolute drivel.

[Superior Acuña]

What encapsulates the level of football discourse for me is some training sessions for my boys club consisting of the manager keeper-kicking the ball out of his hand to the halfway line and us having to head it nowhere in particular, just to prove we weren't fannies really.

[sempuki]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3067888/John-Carver-loses-plot-Newcastle-revolt-team-lock-boss-crisis-talks-offers-stand-aside-Steve-McClaren.html

John Carver offered to fall on his sword during a meeting with Newcastle managing director Lee Charnley after an amazing 48 hours at St James' Park.

 

Sportsmail can reveal the full disturbing picture of a club in turmoil following a series of meetings between players, management and executives since the shameful 3-0 loss at Leicester on Saturday.

 

In an attempt to save Newcastle from relegation, Carver told owner Mike Ashley he would stand aside if the club could find a replacement.Incredibly, Newcastle approached Derby manager Steve McClaren to take the last three games of the season, in a desperate attempt to find the points they need to stay in the Barclays Premier League.

 

McClaren turned down the chance to move to the North East and appears determined to lead another Derby assault on promotion from the Championship next season.

 

The failure to recruit McClaren, who has failed to get Derby into the play-offs this campaign, forced Newcastle to release a statement backing Carver. But the current boss' power has been eroded over the past few weeks by the betrayal of senior players.

 

On Monday, the squad attended the club's Darsley Park training centre for a meeting on their own as they look for the win that could keep Newcastle in the top flight.

 

Coaching staff were excluded from the summit, which was attended by first-team players ahead of a warm-down session and massages for those who played on Saturday.

 

This is not the first time the players have held a meeting during Newcastle's depressing run, but the slump has continued. A Newcastle source told Sportsmail: 'It's just meetings about meetings.'

 

Carver has been attempting to develop a siege mentality at the club following a run of results that has left Newcastle two points above the relegation zone.

 

At half-time at Leicester, it has emerged that the players were deliberately provoked by coaching staff in an attempt to get a reaction after the break.

 

By then they were 2-0 down following a first-minute goal by Leonardo Ulloa and a 17th-minute effort by Leicester defender Wes Morgan.

 

Amid fiery exchanges, the players were told they were so bad they would be practising kick-offs in training this week because they had surrendered possession so easily. Just three minutes after the restart, they conceded a third goal when Ulloa scored again, this time from the penalty spot.

 

Carver fears the worst after his side's run of league defeats was extended to eight. The manager wanted a response from his players in the dressing room, but he fears they lack the necessary leadership and character going into the final three games.

 

There have been a number of attempts by the Newcastle boss to provoke the players on the training field, but there is now an air of resignation among the squad. Managing director Charnley, who has been hugely supportive of Carver since he replaced Alan Pardew in January, also met with the coaching staff yesterday.

 

And it has emerged that an administrative decision means young central defender Jamaal Lascelles, who has been on loan at Nottingham Forest for the season, will not be available to face West Bromwich Albion this Saturday.

 

Newcastle agreed to let Lascelles' contract at the City Ground run until the end of May in case Forest made the Championship play-offs. In the event, Dougie Freedman's side finished 19 points behind sixth-placed Ipswich. On top of that, Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa, the 25-year-old defender signed from Montpellier in 2013, is on loan at Roma for the season.

 

Newcastle will be without Mike Williamson, sent off in disgrace at Leicester, for the clash with Tony Pulis's side at St James' Park.

 

Carver could play Ryan Taylor alongside Fabricio Coloccini at centre half.

 

Vernon Anita is expected to play at right back against West Brom, with Jonas Gutierrez at left back if Newcastle survive the week without any more injuries.

 

Although Newcastle's future hinges on the next three games, Ashley was warned about the potential problems at the club by his then manager Pardew last summer.

 

During Newcastle's tour to New Zealand, Pardew expressed reservations about the squad and warned the executive they would face a relegation battle.

 

Pardew, now in charge at Crystal Palace, has been proved right after a run of defeats that began when Newcastle lost 1-0 at home to Manchester United on March 4.

 

Newcastle have not won a game since the 1-0 win over Aston Villa at St James' Park on February 28 and they now face a massive battle for survival.

 

After Saturday's clash with West Bromwich, the team travel to relegation-threatened Queens Park Rangers before their final game of the season, at home to West Ham on May 24.

 

There is an outside chance striker Papiss Cisse, who is recovering from a knee injury, could return for the final two games, but he remains upset about Newcastle's attempts to sell him in January.

 

Cisse, who has scored 11 times for Newcastle this season, has not played since Newcastle's home defeat by Manchester United, after which he was hit with a seven-match ban for spitting at defender Jonny Evans.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/Mlo5LdB.gif

Penfold clearly has no idea of planning ahead. Staggering incompetence which will cost 10s of millions.

[r0cafella]

The way the media portrays Pardew to be the best thing since slice bread is sickening

[sempuki]

Can't believe he offered to resign and they turned him down. "No John - we want you to relegate us"...

[Guest Gino14]

It all stems from the same place that sees England/Britain fail to produce technical players ahead of 'graft' and 'passion', there's just a lousy attitude to the game in general imo. Despite the game's popularity, the public in England, by and large, HATE footballers, really hate them. They don't really want to hear about tactics and footballers being told what to do ("the bloody money they're on, they shouldn't need telling!"). They'd rather hear about how hard the lads are working. Coaching is a bit of a dirty word here, a ridiculous idea that footballers need telling how to kick a bloody ball round a field, the lazy overpaid b******s. Carver's assertions the other day that he can't affect what happens on the field aren't far from the level of discourse generally. As a country, we fail to produce sufficient players, managers or fans who are really intelligent about the game.

 

I avoid football chat altogether outside of a couple of mates who I can trust not to talk absolute drivel.

 

That's so spot on in every way.  The general attitude to Football is that it's such a simple game that anyone could do it if they were just a good enough athlete.  People don't understand the skills, the tactics from good managers and everything else that goes into actually winning at the highest level.  It's all lost on the average person on the street.  You have to be really into football it seems, to even care to study what actually goes into it.  That's why most people just turn up to our ground every match and don't understand the need for protest.  It's just a casual distraction for them and they're not interested in the inner workings.  Yet for all that, they'll still value their opinion above that of an obsessed Football fan that's actually taken the time to try and understand everything.

[Collage]

Great posts Gino14, Kasper and Wullie. My view is that football in Britain is anti-intellectual (generally, of course there are exceptions). Reminds of this in "Mike Bassett - manager", at 0:22.

 

[worthy]

Well even Norwegian media is going on about how shit Carver is and that protests are still ongoing. Well at least more media outside the Uk is actually picking shit up

[BlueStar]

Wonder if Carver thinks he's got more chance of getting the job if we're in the Championship.

[steve_69]

This whole debacle would be a little easier to stomach if he'd just have a fucking go at the opposition. If we started the next game with a front 3 of Cabella, De Jong & Perez with Ryan Taylor nowhere near the starting line up and we still lose, fair enough.  But starting games with Jonas & R Taylor and our creative players consigned to the bench is suicide.  It hasn't worked and it never will. Change something you fat cretin!

 

 

[The College Dropout]

IMO you can go a long way with srong fundamentals in any sport, especially football. We can't take kick-offs, can't defend set-pieces, lose concentration in defence all the time. Just awful. You can get a very long way with motivation, belief, confidence and solid organisation. We don't have that.

[Ste]

Ryder has tweeted saying Carver didn't offer to resign and the club didn't ask him to. Probably more covering up from the club to make everything seem hunky dory.

[TaylorJ_01]

This whole debacle would be a little easier to stomach if he'd just have a f***ing go at the opposition. If we started the next game with a front 3 of Cabella, De Jong & Perez with Ryan Taylor nowhere near the starting line up and we still lose, fair enough.  But starting games with Jonas & R Taylor and our creative players consigned to the bench is suicide.  It hasn't worked and it never will. Change something you fat cretin!

 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's incredible that a manager can lose every game, slag off his players in public, openly state that they aren't listening to him and just carry on in the job. Or it would be if we were a normal club.

[TaylorJ_01]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/05/0f4b4e096938c66ca158ba88b83c4183.jpg

 

From the man himself

 

 

jesus christ almighty

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Jesus.