Stephen Ireland

[Ronaldo]

Overweight and unfit? When did this happen?

[Optimistic Nut]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

It was only 2 years ago where he was being named Manchester City Player of the Year, and from what I remember he was in a midfield three with Kompany & Elano with Robinho & SWP behind the front man.

[colinmk]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

Perfectly said really

[Ronaldo]

Quite disappointing that one poster mentions 2 years, and 3 posters jump on the bandwagon without a hint of real insight.

[fredbob]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

 

Honest opinion is that I rate Ireland very very highly and feel he would regain his form in a 451/433, rather than playing him as a cm like they did at villa. We look to be playing that formation so I don't see the problem, providing he's economically viable.

[Optimistic Nut]

Replace

 

-------------------------Kompany-------------------------

 

--------------Elano----------------------Ireland----------

 

SWP-----------------------------------------------Robinho

 

-------------------------Striker------------------------------

 

with

 

----------------------------Tiote------------------------------

 

--------------Cabaye-------------------Ireland-------------

 

N'Zogbia----------------------------------------------HBA---

(Jonas, Marveaux)

 

----------------------------Ba-----------------------------------

 

 

and could people not see it working?

[ponsaelius]

No because they never played that line-up.

[fredbob]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

Aye, said this earlier, though I think Ben arfa will start as a left forward and drift in. Might get in each others way, might not. It's pardew call to make.

 

 

[Dave]

I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

 

To be honest Dave, I'm only on my phone and haven't got time to address everything I feel is wrong with that post, would we be having this debate had sounds made a success of that team? No.

 

What that era did highlight though was how important it is to enforce accountability and some form of sensible transfer plan.

 

If you're mainly bothered about the quality of football that's played surely you should only be interested in the quality of player we sign rather than how much we spend on them? Do marveuax/ba/cabaye and Ben arfa not indicate an intention to buy quality players?

 

Remember, players that cost a lot now were good players before they became well known.

 

Id say if you're not interested in the finances, then why comment on them so frequently?

 

No idea why it always comes back to apparently advocating Souness, Shepherd and some of the fucking ludicrous deals we did in the past. I guess I must want to see the club go out of existence!

 

I comment on the finances because I want to see Andy Carroll adequately replaced. I was always against his sale at any price for the same reasons as above - I saw a very good player going out and nothing coming in. The excuse for selling him was that the money would go straight back into the first team, but then it became 'the squad' instead, and now it's 'the club'. As I see it we've not replaced him, and unless there's a dead cheap Andy Carroll equivalent we can find (that Liverpool and Spurs etc apparently can't) then we'll have to spend money, or we're weaker - or at least not pushing upwards.

 

Aside from Nolan going I'm happy with our business so far because the players that have come in look to have talent, and that's what I want to see. If we want to move up the table though we'll have to spend money to at the very least replace the goals Carroll and Nolan scored last season, which was 40% of our total.

[Dave]

Quite disappointing that one poster mentions 2 years, and 3 posters jump on the bandwagon without a hint of real insight.

 

:lol:

[Optimistic Nut]

No because they never played that line-up.

 

Without copy & pasting every single matchday squad...

 

Sept 08 v Pompey

 

J. Hart, P. Zabaleta, M. Richards, R. Dunne, J. Garrido, V. Kompany, S. Wright-Phillips, S. Ireland (G. Fernandes, 77), Elano, Robinho (D. Sturridge, 85), Jo (C. Evans, 71)

 

Oct 08 v Liverpool

 

J. Hart, P. Zabaleta  (s/o 67), R. Dunne , M. Richards, J. Garrido, S. Wright-Phillips, S. Ireland, V. Kompany, Elano (M. Petrov, 85), Robinho (C. Evans, 80), Jo (G. Fernandes, 70)

 

Oct 08 v Stoke

 

J. Hart, M. Richards, R. Dunne (G. Fernandes, 76), T. Ben-Haim, J. Garrido (N. Onuoha, 70), S. Wright-Phillips, S. Ireland, V. Kompany , Elano, Robinho, C. Evans (D. Sturridge, 42

 

[johnnypd]

6 games started last season. 16 the season before. shit in both of those seasons. You're talking about one or two decent games across that entire 2 year period for any sort of bright spark. any real sustained good form and it is going back beyond 2 years. even in 2008-09 all but 2 of his league goals that season came in 2008.

 

so we've heard the numerous arguments against Ireland, what's the argument for? Errr, "Barton out for £4m Ireland in for £2m is a good deal". Bit of a joke really.

[Optimistic Nut]

6 games started last season. 16 the season before. s*** in both of those seasons. You're talking about one or two decent games across that entire 2 year period for any sort of bright spark. any real sustained good form and it is going back beyond 2 years. even in 2008-09 all but 2 of his league goals that season came in 2008.

 

so we've heard the numerous arguments against Ireland, what's the argument for? Errr, "Barton out for £4m Ireland in for £2m is a good deal". Bit of a joke really.

 

Last season he was shit granted, the season before that City had just spent £30m plus on De Jong & Barry to play in that midfield three so were hardly going to not play them.

[Sifu]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

He's definitely not a winger that's for sure. It would be retarded to stick him there.

[ponsaelius]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

He's definitely not a winger that's for sure. It would be retarded to stick him there.

 

He can't play CM for shit either.

[Ronaldo]

6 games started last season. 16 the season before. s*** in both of those seasons. You're talking about one or two decent games across that entire 2 year period for any sort of bright spark. any real sustained good form and it is going back beyond 2 years. even in 2008-09 all but 2 of his league goals that season came in 2008.

 

so we've heard the numerous arguments against Ireland, what's the argument for? Errr, "Barton out for £4m Ireland in for £2m is a good deal". Bit of a joke really.

 

And when was he overweight? You obviously have something against the lad.

[Optimistic Nut]

6 games started last season. 16 the season before. s*** in both of those seasons. You're talking about one or two decent games across that entire 2 year period for any sort of bright spark. any real sustained good form and it is going back beyond 2 years. even in 2008-09 all but 2 of his league goals that season came in 2008.

 

so we've heard the numerous arguments against Ireland, what's the argument for? Errr, "Barton out for £4m Ireland in for £2m is a good deal". Bit of a joke really.

 

Not too dissimilar to Nolan last year then.

[Ronaldo]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

He's definitely not a winger that's for sure. It would be retarded to stick him there.

 

He can't play CM for s*** either.

 

He's a better CM than Kevin Nolan, that's for sure.

[Optimistic Nut]

If he didn't play CM where did he play then.

 

Was always one striker with SWP, Robinho, etc. behind him and Ireland was alongside Elano & Kompany or similar.

[johnnypd]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

 

Honest opinion is that I rate Ireland very very highly and feel he would regain his form in a 451/433, rather than playing him as a cm like they did at villa. We look to be playing that formation so I don't see the problem, providing he's economically viable.

 

Isn't HBA slated for that position? My main problem is that i'd rather we looked elsewhere - we have £39m burning a hole in our pockets, and a scouting system that is supposed to be rather good. I think we could bring in better, imo, and players who are less of a risk, and more suited to playing a squad role than Ireland.

 

It may sound like i'm dead against him - i'm not, and i think my opinion is shared by Pardew, Carr etc, in that i'd only go anywhere near him in late august in the unfortunate situation that we've missed out on better targets. I think he can come in and do well but only if everything is set up right for him, i dont think he'll get that here and even then, i don't think he has the sort of potential that some of our other players do.

[ponsaelius]

FFS, we signed him in January because we were skint and it was worth the minimal risk. He comes in, spends the time injured..then gets injured immediately on return and fucks off back. I thought that would be the end of the whole pointless debacle.

 

Quite simply we should be in a better position now to buy better, more reliable players. Not gamble on somebody like Ireland who, even at his absolute top form with the team built around him is at most probably a Waffa cup player. I'm not writing off the idea that he could come straight in, stay fit, gel into a line-up and play well - but frankly there should be endless better options out there.

[Optimistic Nut]

FFS, we signed him in January because we were skint and it was worth the minimal risk. He comes in, spends the time injured..then gets injured immediately on return and f***s off back. I thought that would be the end of the whole pointless debacle.

 

Quite simply we should be in a better position now to buy better, more reliable players. Not gamble on somebody like Ireland who, even at his absolute top form with the team built around him is at most probably a Waffa cup player. I'm not writing off the idea that he could come straight in, stay fit, gel into a line-up and play well - but frankly there should be endless better options out there.

 

Where do you see us in the next 2-3 years, because I'd be fucking delighted with that tbh.

[ponsaelius]

Maybe but I'd rather not be pinning our hopes on Stephen Ireland regaining his absolute peak form to get us there.

[Sifu]

In an ideal world, I'd bring Ireland in as backup tbh. But that is never going to happen.

[Dokko]

So players peak at 22 now?