AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The immediate decisions by Ashley before relegation were bad, no doubt, but relegation was more a cumulation of errors that had been going on for a long time before he arrived as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The immediate decisions by Ashley before relegation were bad, no doubt, but relegation was more a cumulation of errors that had been going on for a long time before he arrived as well. hmmmmmmmmmmmm not sure we were heading down that season.. even under Sam. Okay its thought we were doomed under Freddy but still Ashley was a wrecking ball in no time at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The immediate decisions by Ashley before relegation were bad, no doubt, but relegation was more a cumulation of errors that had been going on for a long time before he arrived as well. hmmmmmmmmmmmm not sure we were heading down that season.. even under Sam. Okay its thought we were doomed under Freddy but still Ashley was a wrecking ball in no time at all. Well I don't know obviously, but I was never as terrified of relegation as I was under Allardyce. Anyway, moot point, it's obvious Ashley has made a load of errors and has pissed everyone off. All I'm saying is that the situation he arrived into was dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 How much does this save us in wages? and lets face it those going in the summer will not really weaken us any.. replace them with players we can actually use. OUT Smith Campbell Routledge Xisco Carroll (already) Smith: 65k a week. Campbell: 25k a week. Carroll: 30-35k a week. Xisco: 40k a week. Quite a bit of $$$$$ to save there Who's going to take on Smith? Even if they do, we may have to contribute to his wages until next summer anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The lads on Toontastic have a thread showing a net spend of nearly 50M now under Ashley, so don't hold onto your hats. To put that into perspective though, 50M is probably what we spent on Luque and Owen alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The lads on Toontastic have a thread showing a net spend of nearly 50M now under Ashley, so don't hold onto your hats. To put that into perspective though, 50M is probably what we spent on Luque and Owen alone. To be honest, I'd be happy with them not spending all £35m just on transfer fees, as long as the players we brought in (be them bargain fees or freebies) were still decent players. Just because we have (arguably) more money to spend than we did, we still shouldn't be held to ransom, or pay stupid money for players. If we could still get a number of decent players for nominal fees, rather than one or two for much higher fees, then I'd (probably) be just as happy. £6m + huge wages for Smith or £3.5m + lower wages for Tiote? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The lads on Toontastic have a thread showing a net spend of nearly 50M now under Ashley, so don't hold onto your hats. To put that into perspective though, 50M is probably what we spent on Luque and Owen alone. What is the spend/profit when sales are considered? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I mean, it's a fact that some of any money we bring in does have to go on wages as well as fees. It's the same point again and again about 'net spend' and 'Ashley making a profit on transfers' and all that bollocks. All the money comes into and out of the club accounts, there's not a separate bank account for transfer spending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It wont be easy finding good players that have the impact we want in the prem. Enrique & Colo both took a decent period of time to get going. Ben Arfa's situation was pretty unusual in terms of his ability & how much it was being used. Tiote is the only real normal signing who has come in and done the business straight away. Even then again at prev club he was often used as a sub. Its not simple. Especially trying to find a class striker that will do the business and want to come here over others. Easiest way is players already doing the biz in the prem & their prices will be inflated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magorific Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Points I'd make: 1: We ARE seriously in debt - to Ashley. It's just a different kind of debt in that it won't need to be paid off - or even serviced - until he sells up. 2: While that sounds okay (no crippling monthly interest charges etc), it will mean he watches every penny day to day and we are unlikely to compete for top players in wage terms. So the idea that "anyone within reason" is available to us is hugely optimistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What is the spend/profit when sales are considered? Anyone? Dunno, but this is an interesting read from December... http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/newcastle-uniteds-finances-in-black-and.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It wont be easy finding good players that have the impact we want in the prem. Enrique & Colo both took a decent period of time to get going. Ben Arfa's situation was pretty unusual in terms of his ability & how much it was being used. Tiote is the only real normal signing who has come in and done the business straight away. Even then again at prev club he was often used as a sub. Its not simple. Especially trying to find a class striker that will do the business and want to come here over others. Easiest way is players already doing the biz in the prem & their prices will be inflated. I agree with you, but I think new players now have a much better chance of doing well than ones that joined at the time of Colo and Enrqiue. The dressing room and club in general were falling apart then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 More Tiotes like N'Zogbia? That would have been the vast majority of the money gone btw, on a player they themselves sold for a third of his true value. Carroll out - £35m plus £35k wages (£44.1m) Zog in - £12m plus £50k wages (£25m) Just over half the cash not including any addons to the Carroll deal or the fact that we've shipped out Xisco and Routledges wages (which will have an impact). Also how was it a third of his value?, we sold him for between £6-8m, nobody seems to know exactly, neither is a third of £12m though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We won't get a realistic replacement for Carroll, but we will get replacements for other players in the team, and our team will be better off after the next two or three transfer windows. That I'm pretty confident of. You've changed your viewpoint a little haven't you after monday? Not at all. It seems that you're so eager to conflate every issue together so that people will not notice how little sense you make and how incoherent your arguments are. Tell me how my statement above contradicts what I said on Monday. I said £35m was a good price. I said that it was a price that I would be happy to accept. In fact, I got a fuckload of shit from people on here when I suggested that I wouldn't mind selling him for an exhorbitant fee, like £30m+. I even got shit from you for suggesting that being a local player is irrelevant (a view I still hold, by the way). I have always maintained that selling him in this window was a short-sighted move because it ignores the fact that we aren't safe yet. It's a gamble to sell him, but if this was done in the summer I would have no qualms about saying that selling him for £35m is a good move. So tell me how I have changed my tune. And that £100 thing is still on, if you're up for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We won't get a realistic replacement for Carroll, but we will get replacements for other players in the team, and our team will be better off after the next two or three transfer windows. That I'm pretty confident of. You've changed your viewpoint a little haven't you after monday? Not at all. It seems that you're so eager to conflate every issue together so that people will not notice how little sense you make and how incoherent your arguments are. Tell me how my statement above contradicts what I said on Monday. I said £35m was a good price. I said that it was a price that I would be happy to accept. In fact, I got a fuckload of shit from people on here when I suggested that I wouldn't mind selling him for an exhorbitant fee, like £30m+. I even got shit from you for suggesting that being a local player is irrelevant (a view I still hold, by the way). I have always maintained that selling him in this window was a short-sighted move because it ignores the fact that we aren't safe yet. It's a gamble to sell him, but if this was done in the summer I would have no qualms about saying that selling him for £35m is a good move. So tell me how I have changed my tune. And that £100 thing is still on, if you're up for it. What like the fact ashley has taken money from the club. You get the proof first that he has taken money out the club. Fact is he's invested over £250M since he took over the club and at least he's put some of his own money into the club to compensate for the mistakes. Unlike Shepherd who would still award himself a salary, bonus and dividends despite spending money which wasn't there. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/newcastle-uniteds-finances-in-black-and.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 How much does this save us in wages? and lets face it those going in the summer will not really weaken us any.. replace them with players we can actually use. OUT Smith Campbell Routledge Xisco Carroll (already) Smith: 65k a week. Campbell: 25k a week. Carroll: 30-35k a week. Xisco: 40k a week. Quite a bit of $$$$$ to save there Who's going to take on Smith? Even if they do, we may have to contribute to his wages until next summer anyway. Possibly not this summer, but I can see him moving into coaching sooner rather than later if he can't shake these injuries he keeps picking up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We lost the best part of half a million a week off the wage bill when we got relegated and they still have always claimed it was too high, even after promotion, despite the fact he sanctioned nearly every player in the squad. Please don't kid yourselves that getting anyone off it will open up funds elsewhere because it won't. Compiled a quick list: Harper - Signed new contract Coloccini - Signed for club Enrique - Signed for club Nolan - Signed for club Campbell - Signed for club Williamson - Signed for club Barton - Guthrie - Signed for club Routledge - Signed for club Lovenkrands - Signed for club Simpson - Signed for club Perch - Signed for club Gosling - Signed for club Taylor - Signed for club Smith - Signed for club Gutierrez - Signed for club Xisco - Signed for club Best - Signed for club Forster - Signed new contract Ameobi - Signed new contract Tiote - Signed for club Krul - Signed new contract Taylor - Signed new contract Ben Arfa - Signed for club Ireland - Signed for club Joey Barton is the only member of the first team squad that Ashley hasn't bought or given a contract to (although Barton arrived around the same time that Ashley bought Shepherd's shares so even that is touch and go). The wage budget is as high as it is, because of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We lost the best part of half a million a week off the wage bill when we got relegated and they still have always claimed it was too high, even after promotion, despite the fact he sanctioned nearly every player in the squad. Please don't kid yourselves that getting anyone off it will open up funds elsewhere because it won't. Compiled a quick list: Harper - Signed new contract Coloccini - Signed for club Enrique - Signed for club Nolan - Signed for club Campbell - Signed for club Williamson - Signed for club Barton - Guthrie - Signed for club Routledge - Signed for club Lovenkrands - Signed for club Simpson - Signed for club Perch - Signed for club Gosling - Signed for club Taylor - Signed for club Smith - Signed for club Gutierrez - Signed for club Xisco - Signed for club Best - Signed for club Forster - Signed new contract Ameobi - Signed new contract Tiote - Signed for club Krul - Signed new contract Taylor - Signed new contract Ben Arfa - Signed for club Ireland - Signed for club Joey Barton is the only member of the first team squad that Ashley hasn't bought or given a contract to (although Barton arrived around the same time that Ashley bought Shepherd's shares so even that is touch and go). The wage budget is as high as it is, because of him. Ashley did offer big wages in the 1st year of him joining the club. He stupidly trusted Allardyce for his signings and then wise. Since we signed Coloccini though in 2008 we haven't put a single player on above 50k IIRC until Ben Arfa has signed. Once players are on big wages it's impossible to get them off their contracts unless we somehow sell them. Our wage bill this season will be decent imo to put the club on a good financial footing going forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 How much does this save us in wages? and lets face it those going in the summer will not really weaken us any.. replace them with players we can actually use. OUT Smith Campbell Routledge Xisco Carroll (already) Smith: 65k a week. Campbell: 25k a week. Carroll: 30-35k a week. Xisco: 40k a week. Quite a bit of $$$$$ to save there Who's going to take on Smith? Even if they do, we may have to contribute to his wages until next summer anyway. Possibly not this summer, but I can see him moving into coaching sooner rather than later if he can't shake these injuries he keeps picking up. [/quote Instead of pocketing £60,000 a week. Yeah right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Who's going to take on Smith? Even if they do, we may have to contribute to his wages until next summer anyway. Possibly not this summer, but I can see him moving into coaching sooner rather than later if he can't shake these injuries he keeps picking up. By the summer he'll have under a year left on his contract and he'll be nearly 31. Nobody's going to take him on at 32 so he really only has two choices. Stay here for one more year on 60k a week, sit on the bench all season and then retire. Or leave in the summer to a club where he'll get a game on a two year contract for £30-£35k. The second option is better financially, and for his career so hopefully he'll take it if a club willing to take him for free can be found (IMO there would be). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Just a point, if we are going to have any ambition of getting back into Europe we need to get own finances right in the 1st place. 6 years of straight losses is not good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 How much does this save us in wages? and lets face it those going in the summer will not really weaken us any.. replace them with players we can actually use. OUT Smith Campbell Routledge Xisco Carroll (already) Smith: 65k a week. Campbell: 25k a week. Carroll: 30-35k a week. Xisco: 40k a week. Quite a bit of $$$$$ to save there Who's going to take on Smith? Even if they do, we may have to contribute to his wages until next summer anyway. Possibly not this summer, but I can see him moving into coaching sooner rather than later if he can't shake these injuries he keeps picking up. Instead of pocketing £60,000 a week. Yeah right. Whey, if he has to retire cause his legs are buggered he won't have much of a choice. I presume he'll be insured though. /not hoping for it for the lads sake, but looks like that may be the best outcome for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What is the spend/profit when sales are considered? Anyone? Dunno, but this is an interesting read from December... http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/newcastle-uniteds-finances-in-black-and.html Just reading through it again (the link above): The Halls (John and Douglas) took out of the club a total of £95 million over the years, while the Shepherds (Freddy and Bruce) took out £55 million. That's £140 million gone. Ashley's investment in the club (by 2010's accounts) was £132 million to buy the club, £70 million to repay loans, £66 million working capital. That's £268 million in. Some of the cost in being relegated, and the fall in revenue from tickets, drinks, shirts etc should be Ashley's to carry because it was his doing. (And the £5m we had to pay KK rather than the £2m he would have had to pay the club for resigning that was written into his contract, if the Ashley gang hadn't been proven in court to have constructively dismissed him and be lying bastards to boot). And the guy treats us like sh*t. But there's no denying that we're costing him money, whereas the Halls and Shepherds were feasting on our blood. (They did sign the best Geordie striker in the country for a British record rather than selling him. And they are entitled to say they left the team and the stadium a lot better than when they took over, but a lot of that was down to KK - Hall didn't spend anything to save us from the third division when we really needed the help, then KK made us world beaters on a shoestring. THEN Hall's oppotunistic eyes blinked pound signs and saw us as a good investment, hence Rob Lee, Andy Cole etc etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We lost the best part of half a million a week off the wage bill when we got relegated and they still have always claimed it was too high, even after promotion, despite the fact he sanctioned nearly every player in the squad. Please don't kid yourselves that getting anyone off it will open up funds elsewhere because it won't. Compiled a quick list: Harper - Signed new contract Coloccini - Signed for club Enrique - Signed for club Nolan - Signed for club Campbell - Signed for club Williamson - Signed for club Barton - Guthrie - Signed for club Routledge - Signed for club Lovenkrands - Signed for club Simpson - Signed for club Perch - Signed for club Gosling - Signed for club Taylor - Signed for club Smith - Signed for club Gutierrez - Signed for club Xisco - Signed for club Best - Signed for club Forster - Signed new contract Ameobi - Signed new contract Tiote - Signed for club Krul - Signed new contract Taylor - Signed new contract Ben Arfa - Signed for club Ireland - Signed for club Joey Barton is the only member of the first team squad that Ashley hasn't bought or given a contract to (although Barton arrived around the same time that Ashley bought Shepherd's shares so even that is touch and go). The wage budget is as high as it is, because of him. Ashley did offer big wages in the 1st year of him joining the club. He stupidly trusted Allardyce for his signings and then wise. Since we signed Coloccini though in 2008 we haven't put a single player on above 50k IIRC until Ben Arfa has signed. Once players are on big wages it's impossible to get them off their contracts unless we somehow sell them. Our wage bill this season will be decent imo to put the club on a good financial footing going forward. I think people tend to gloss over the fact that Ashley did dole out big wage contracts for the first year but most of the big time charlies didn't deliver. Owen? Viduka? Martins? Smith? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We lost the best part of half a million a week off the wage bill when we got relegated and they still have always claimed it was too high, even after promotion, despite the fact he sanctioned nearly every player in the squad. Please don't kid yourselves that getting anyone off it will open up funds elsewhere because it won't. Compiled a quick list: Harper - Signed new contract Coloccini - Signed for club Enrique - Signed for club Nolan - Signed for club Campbell - Signed for club Williamson - Signed for club Barton - Guthrie - Signed for club Routledge - Signed for club Lovenkrands - Signed for club Simpson - Signed for club Perch - Signed for club Gosling - Signed for club Taylor - Signed for club Smith - Signed for club Gutierrez - Signed for club Xisco - Signed for club Best - Signed for club Forster - Signed new contract Ameobi - Signed new contract Tiote - Signed for club Krul - Signed new contract Taylor - Signed new contract Ben Arfa - Signed for club Ireland - Signed for club Joey Barton is the only member of the first team squad that Ashley hasn't bought or given a contract to (although Barton arrived around the same time that Ashley bought Shepherd's shares so even that is touch and go). The wage budget is as high as it is, because of him. Ashley did offer big wages in the 1st year of him joining the club. He stupidly trusted Allardyce for his signings and then wise. Since we signed Coloccini though in 2008 we haven't put a single player on above 50k IIRC until Ben Arfa has signed. Once players are on big wages it's impossible to get them off their contracts unless we somehow sell them. Our wage bill this season will be decent imo to put the club on a good financial footing going forward. I think people tend to gloss over the fact that Ashley did dole out big wage contracts for the first year but most of the big time charlies didn't deliver. Owen? Viduka? Martins? Smith? I think of the dross which Allardyce bought, he's been tainted by that experience. Hence why Wise and that were brought in to stop it. Right Idea just executed the whole thing awfully wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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