Short termism and NUFC fans.

[Dave]

I think this topic would go a lot better if the OP was worded slightly differently.

 

I agree with some of what was said in the OP and it has to be said that there are some horrific 'Knee Jerkers' on here who would sell 7-8 if the clubs players because of one bad performance. Good to use jonas as an example here then one good game and he should be given a chance rto show what he can really do.

 

Dave asked for evidence - Just look on the boards.

 

It was also menioned  that 50,00+ fans and 80 years of winning nothing makes people impatient, That maybe so but people still support teams who have NEVER won anything but they will still support them for the love of the club which they have.

 

I think that people can just get a bit emotional at times.

 

Re: the big bit; I agree. Not what he said though is it?

 

You've misread my point about the crowds too.

[Dave]

Dave asked for evidence - Just look on the boards.

 

Go on then, provide links where people:

 

1. Are on about replacing 7-8 of our starting XI.

2. Claim any of the current team are the next Shearer (PS: we recently sold our best bet).

3. Claim someone should have their contract cancelled for misplacing a pass.

4. Suggest replacing our young players - like Simpson and Krul - without good reason.

5. Have forgotten why we went down in 2009.

6. Want to tear apart/decimate our team.

7. Want to buy another generation of Owens, Duffs, Martins and Bassongs.

8. Want to financially cripple the club.

 

Considering the 'majority of NUFC fans are incapable of seeing past the next ten seconds' I'll expect an absolute shitload of examples, rather than one or two. Note that people admitting they were wrong, changing their mind about a player, policy or transfer and providing a decent point of debate doesn't count, despite some seemingly believing that doing so is not allowed.

 

It's laughable hyperbole, the type of clichéd bollocks the mackems and gutter press come out with time and time again.

[Kaizero]

Dave.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Wish it was possible to have a thread without people distorting other peoples' views and then arguing against a polarised version of what they actually meant.

[Wullie]

Didn't spot the mention of Bassong!

 

Bought for peanuts, paid peanuts, was one of the only reasons we came anywhere near survival and was sold on to an ambitious club for nearly 10 million! He is the original Tiote, the perfect Ashley signing.

 

But you don't want his type and you don't want expensive players either... who do you want?

[Punk77]

Didn't spot the mention of Bassong!

 

Bought for peanuts, paid peanuts, was one of the only reasons we came anywhere near survival and was sold on to an ambitious club for nearly 10 million! He is the original Tiote, the perfect Ashley signing.

 

But you don't want his type and you don't want expensive players either... who do you want?

 

Bassong had some good games, but it's just as likely that we would have stayed up without him. He was the direct cause of us loosing the game a couple of times, due to his idiotic box challenges (penalty), jersey pulling and red cards. Eg the game home against Everton, where we ripped them apart, but Bassong as last man managed to be expelled due to jersey pulling. Totally avoidable. We subsequently lost that match.

[Guest Pie]

Most people who attend matchs at SJP probably don't know this board exists. At least 10% of them have never heard of the Internet if the area I inhabit at SJP is representative. Nor do the majority ring 606 etc. You might well find those with the largest gobs on national radio are the not very well informed at all. i.e. don't attend games.

 

Not too keen on someone asking if I am knee jerking when I've had a season ticket longer than he has probably been alive.

 

Fair few assumptions in what I have said.

 

However, why would we be any less realistic than fans of other clubs?

 

I heard a bindipping tramp on radio commenting that their shit crowds of late were due to the expensive seats. Not content with having a shite accent, he went on to use it to tell lies.

 

It was also galling to see Chelsea called 'one of the old guard' in a newspaper complaining about those with new found wealth.

 

I've had a season ticket since the 70s and seen us win fuck all. Seen us relegated 3 times which isnt bad really compared to our unwashed neighbours.

 

Seen us sell the talented players we have developed all too regularly - some of whom became world class and provided superb entertainment. I like seeing players who entertain, from Mac to Peter Beardsley and Chrissy Waddle to those with enough natural ability and/or athleticism to make you stand and admire - Tommy Craig, Irving Nattrass, woodgate etc come into that bracket.

 

Not sure I, or others who part with their cash appreciate what MA is doing but as much as I say I won't go again, I will. Might moan for a day or two but which fucker says I can't?

[Wullie]

So we don't want the likes of him because, what, he makes mistakes like getting himself sent off? Wish we'd never bought Tiote in that case.

[Guest Pie]

So we don't want the likes of him because, what, he makes mistakes like getting himself sent off? Wish we'd never bought Tiote in that case.

Accept the point. Personally think Tiote is in an altogether different league to Bassong though. That's not me inflating Tiote's ability just never got the whole Bassong love in really. Wouldn't give Tottenham their money back on him.

[Thespence]

The club statement May 2010:

The Board have set a five year plan to promote core values of credibility, viability and sustainability both on and off the field of play at Newcastle United.

 

The Board have therefore structured a five year plan in which the ultimate goal will be to ensure that the club is run at a "break even" manner by the year 2015/2016

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Del in Feb 2009"In five years' time I would hope we would be challenging for everything," Newcastle managing director Derek Llambias said. "We hope to be like an Aston Villa. But you need to have solid grounding under your feet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The club are operating on a few long term plans no need to worry, me I will take it week by week, game by game & transfer deal by transfer deal & at some point I should meet the Fiveyears.

[Punk77]

So we don't want the likes of him because, what, he makes mistakes like getting himself sent off? Wish we'd never bought Tiote in that case.

 

Bassong came of course at a bad time. Our attackers blasted so many chances each game. Had they done their job, Bassong's error wouldn't have mattered. Bassong could blame on inexperience, unlike Owen (cunt), Oba, Viduca and Duff. But I generally do not like players who have to use all the dirty tricks in the book to cope: Vidic, Terry and Bassong. The latter still pulls jerseys in Tham.

 

But in principle, you're right..

[NG32]

I always thought Boomsong was able to cope with the likes of Arsenal players, who play the game on the deck.  What he couldn't cope with was the likes of Bolton under Allerdyce putting him under pressure from every set piece in the air.

 

 

[RupertCommunicator]

Right, before I become some sort of board antichrist, I want to clear a few things up:

 

1.  I'm not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if everyone was in staunch agreement, this board would be very boring indeed!

 

2.  What I have said is a generalisation, I'm not giving exact examples, as no too people will completely agree on all topics.

 

3.  What I said in the OP is aimed only at SOME people.  Clearly there are many people who have long termist views, as there are some who don't.  I was just getting a bit wound up at some of the panic negativity that was coming out in some threads.

 

4.  Nothing is black and white.  People tend to only take views that are either extreme right or extreme left of arc.  Sometimes we need to sit in the middle.  Certainly, I can see the thirst for immediate success, but I just want to temper this with a bit of common sense.

 

5.  Clearly some of this will seem like tired hyperbole/cliché, but only to those who are well informed enough to have trodden this path before.  Do not get a hump on if this applies to you, as clearly, not everyone has been around the block two dozen times.

 

And most importantly - it's only a chat forum FFS!  In real life you may see me down the pub before a match and we'd only be having the same debate over a pint or five, but we'd still be mates afterwards!  I'm not some Geordie hating knobhead, otherwise I wouldn't support the club and go to matches!

[Ishmael]

The thing about this season is uncertainty.

 

We had runs of games that have given the impression that we were capable of pushing for Europe.  We have had runs of games were we have looked like relegation fodder. 

 

[RupertCommunicator]

The thing about this season is uncertainty.

 

We had runs of games that have given the impression that we were capable of pushing for Europe.  We have had runs of games were we have looked like relegation fodder. 

 

 

Who hasn't this season!  I don't think we'll ever see another season like it!

[Benwell Lad]

Right, before I become some sort of board antichrist, I want to clear a few things up:

 

1.  I'm not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if everyone was in staunch agreement, this board would be very boring indeed!

 

2.  What I have said is a generalisation, I'm not giving exact examples, as no too people will completely agree on all topics.

 

3.  What I said in the OP is aimed only at SOME people.  Clearly there are many people who have long termist views, as there are some who don't.  I was just getting a bit wound up at some of the panic negativity that was coming out in some threads.

 

4.  Nothing is black and white.  People tend to only take views that are either extreme right or extreme left of arc.  Sometimes we need to sit in the middle.  Certainly, I can see the thirst for immediate success, but I just want to temper this with a bit of common sense.

 

5.  Clearly some of this will seem like tired hyperbole/cliché, but only to those who are well informed enough to have trodden this path before.  Do not get a hump on if this applies to you, as clearly, not everyone has been around the block two dozen times.

 

And most importantly - it's only a chat forum FFS!  In real life you may see me down the pub before a match and we'd only be having the same debate over a pint or five, but we'd still be mates afterwards!  I'm not some Geordie hating knobhead, otherwise I wouldn't support the club and go to matches!

 

Don't think many have had a go although one or two have been unkind in their replies and taken it a bit too literally.

I think it's a good OP posing an interesting question and yes I think we have a lot of short termism in the form of knee jerk and bi-polar reactions to the club, team and individual players.

I said earlier I find opinions at the match and in the boozer different to on here and certainly more level headed, maybe you do too ?

[RupertCommunicator]

Right, before I become some sort of board antichrist, I want to clear a few things up:

 

1.  I'm not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if everyone was in staunch agreement, this board would be very boring indeed!

 

2.  What I have said is a generalisation, I'm not giving exact examples, as no too people will completely agree on all topics.

 

3.  What I said in the OP is aimed only at SOME people.  Clearly there are many people who have long termist views, as there are some who don't.  I was just getting a bit wound up at some of the panic negativity that was coming out in some threads.

 

4.  Nothing is black and white.  People tend to only take views that are either extreme right or extreme left of arc.  Sometimes we need to sit in the middle.  Certainly, I can see the thirst for immediate success, but I just want to temper this with a bit of common sense.

 

5.  Clearly some of this will seem like tired hyperbole/cliché, but only to those who are well informed enough to have trodden this path before.  Do not get a hump on if this applies to you, as clearly, not everyone has been around the block two dozen times.

 

And most importantly - it's only a chat forum FFS!  In real life you may see me down the pub before a match and we'd only be having the same debate over a pint or five, but we'd still be mates afterwards!  I'm not some Geordie hating knobhead, otherwise I wouldn't support the club and go to matches!

 

Don't think many have had a go although one or two have been unkind in their replies and taken it a bit too literally.

I think it's a good OP posing an interesting question and yes I think we have a lot of short termism in the form of knee jerk and bi-polar reactions to the club, team and individual players.

I said earlier I find opinions at the match and in the boozer different to on here and certainly more level headed, maybe you do too ?

 

I don't think it's the varying opinions down the boozer, more the reactions to said opinions.  If we had a disagreement down the pub, we'd just continue to debate, any disagreement on here and a minority (not all!) will just try to smash people down.  Again, this is not a N-O phenomenon, more a hiding behind your keyboard phenomenon.  Again, not a problem, as if you're offended by what someone types on t'interweb, then maybe you shouldn't be up past your bedtime!

[Rob W]

Short termism?

 

We've waited  84 years for a League win

 

56 years for Cup win and

 

42 years to win owt other than the Inter Toto

 

 

[Mick]

Short termism?

 

We've waited  84 years for a League win

 

56 years for Cup win and

 

42 years to win owt other than the Inter Toto

 

 

 

Knee-jerk, we also won that trophy at Deportivo.

[RupertCommunicator]

Short termism?

 

We've waited  84 years for a League win

 

56 years for Cup win and

 

42 years to win owt other than the Inter Toto

 

 

 

And the Terresa Herresa trophy!  And the First Division.  And the Championship.

 

[Benwell Lad]

Short termism?

 

We've waited  84 years for a League win

 

56 years for Cup win and

 

42 years to win owt other than the Inter Toto

 

 

 

Was that really 42 years ago......just seems like yesterday

[merlin]

50,000+ crowds despite not winning the league in over 80 years = impatient.

 

I think you are wasting your time making this point Dave - plenty on here have accepted mediocrity and seem happy with it....mainly because they know that its all they are going to get and nobody likes to admit to settling for mediocrity. They will always have an excuse why the club kicks them in the nuts - even if it means running down a club legend like KK who dragged the club from - wait for it - mediocrity and walked because he could see that it was heading there again.....

[James]

I think it is fair to say that there definitely has been a lot of short termism, not just with the fans but with the management and the ownership.

 

However I think the relegation and this season has made many realise the complexity of the game and made people take a better approach. For example I think we learnt from our error of writing off Carroll.

 

Examples of short-termism would be fans wanting Nolan taken out of the team to accomodate Ben Arfa/Ireland, fans expecting Krul to be perfect when he got his spell in goal, and fans wanting youngsters to be brought into the team with the expectation that they'll be better than the current lot.

 

I think the problem is endemic at all top level clubs. The fans have FIFA, Football Manager, watch every live game including La Liga, Serie A, even the Dutch League and they expect their own clubs to do things instantly, failing to grasp concepts such as team spirit, team blending, player development, confidence and the whole psychology of the game.

[Punk77]

I think it is fair to say that there definitely has been a lot of short termism, not just with the fans but with the management and the ownership.

 

However I think the relegation and this season has made many realise the complexity of the game and made people take a better approach. For example I think we learnt from our error of writing off Carroll.

 

Examples of short-termism would be fans wanting Nolan taken out of the team to accomodate Ben Arfa/Ireland, fans expecting Krul to be perfect when he got his spell in goal, and fans wanting youngsters to be brought into the team with the expectation that they'll be better than the current lot.

 

I think the problem is endemic at all top level clubs. The fans have FIFA, Football Manager, watch every live game including La Liga, Serie A, even the Dutch League and they expect their own clubs to do things instantly, failing to grasp concepts such as team spirit, team blending, player development, confidence and the whole psychology of the game.

 

 

As you mention, it's important to acknowledge that the short-terminism goes both way. It's been persistent with us,  but  inside the club especially.

[quayside]

Right, before I become some sort of board antichrist, I want to clear a few things up:

 

1.  I'm not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if everyone was in staunch agreement, this board would be very boring indeed!

 

2.  What I have said is a generalisation, I'm not giving exact examples, as no too people will completely agree on all topics.

 

3.  What I said in the OP is aimed only at SOME people.  Clearly there are many people who have long termist views, as there are some who don't.  I was just getting a bit wound up at some of the panic negativity that was coming out in some threads.

 

4.  Nothing is black and white.  People tend to only take views that are either extreme right or extreme left of arc.  Sometimes we need to sit in the middle.  Certainly, I can see the thirst for immediate success, but I just want to temper this with a bit of common sense.

 

5.  Clearly some of this will seem like tired hyperbole/cliché, but only to those who are well informed enough to have trodden this path before.  Do not get a hump on if this applies to you, as clearly, not everyone has been around the block two dozen times.

 

And most importantly - it's only a chat forum FFS!  In real life you may see me down the pub before a match and we'd only be having the same debate over a pint or five, but we'd still be mates afterwards!  I'm not some Geordie hating knobhead, otherwise I wouldn't support the club and go to matches!

 

Don't think many have had a go although one or two have been unkind in their replies and taken it a bit too literally.

I think it's a good OP posing an interesting question and yes I think we have a lot of short termism in the form of knee jerk and bi-polar reactions to the club, team and individual players.

I said earlier I find opinions at the match and in the boozer different to on here and certainly more level headed, maybe you do too ?

 

I don't think it's the varying opinions down the boozer, more the reactions to said opinions.  If we had a disagreement down the pub, we'd just continue to debate, any disagreement on here and a minority (not all!) will just try to smash people down.  Again, this is not a N-O phenomenon, more a hiding behind your keyboard phenomenon.  Again, not a problem, as if you're offended by what someone types on t'interweb, then maybe you shouldn't be up past your bedtime!

 

Apart from the afore mentioned knee jerk reactions it is also one of the features of internet forums that some posters take up a particular view or position on an issue and then entrench themselves. No matter what may happen to suggest that they might reconsider their view they will not do so because their previously expressed opinions are recorded on the forum and they don't want to be seen to lose face. Pub discussions will usually be more give and take as they are face to face.

 

I have to say though this is a very good forum and it is very informative. There are some excellent posters on here, both from "debating a point" and entertainment perspectives.