alpal78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Had a good debate with Wullie in the Enrique thread, would be interesting to know what others think? Although the discussion was centered on Carroll, the idea can be extrapolated to a more general question. Do teams need local players (defined as born in the locality or players who come from the youth setup) to be successful? My position is that although local players give the club a sense of identity and give the fans a sense of belonging, they are not prerequisites for success (I voted no). What are needed for success are quality players regardless of their origins. Wullie gave some interesting examples of successful clubs who all have local players Barcelona (Xavi, Iniesta, Messi...etc), Chelsea (Terry & Lampard), Liverpool (Gerrard & Carragher)...etc as proof that you need local players to be successful. My counter argument is that those clubs are/were successful because all those players mentioned are good quality players, not because of where they were born or which youth academy they came from. Replace those players with other players from other parts of the country or even foreign players of the same quality and the clubs would be just as successful. I also gave the example of Inter Milan who to my knowledge did not have a key local player. Don't just vote, provide your arguments too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-nufc Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 in an ideal world it would be wonderful to have a team of local lads but in reality it doesnt make much difference in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's not needed, but it is nice. Also, players can care about the club enough to put that bit extra effort in even if they aren't local. Scott Parker ran himself into the ground for us week after week. Don't forget we still have Shola! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Inter's team last season. /thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Inter's team last season. /thread Sorry I have no idea what you mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Having some local lads gives a team character, but is not essential to success. The only thing essential to success these days is money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Inter's team last season. /thread Sorry I have no idea what you mean? Didn't read your post. Seems you used them as a counterexample anyway. Basically they had XI foreigners and won a treble. It means next to nothing to have local players, but in a romantic way it is quite nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Arsenal have been pretty good under Wenger for a while with no local players - although if "local" covers players brought in from your youth set up I guess this point's pretty much a nullity! It's an interesting point though - when we were awesome under Keegan, we did have quite a few Geordies in the side with Shearer, Beardsley, Clark, Howey... probably others I'm forgetting. I still think it's tenuous to say you need them though - when Chelsea won the league twice the only real local was Terry - don't forget that Lamps is from the East End and grew up a Hammer. Their team was based almost exclusively on expensive investment (Lamps included). I think Terry was the only local to come through for that team, although doubtless he was pretty important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Having some local lads gives a team character, but is not essential to success. The only thing essential to success these days is money. We have a winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I was about to post about Arsenal, do all the youngsters they shipped in from abroad when they were embryos count as local? I would say they pretty much do, I would be attached to anyone who had come up from the age of 13 or 14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Can be useful, but not a necessity. They have to really want to be there though as that's what it's about more than just being local. Joey Barton has been one of our most passionate players this season and shown how much the club means to him, and has arguably been our best player this season, so that shows it's more the passion rather than just being local that's most helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Inter's team last season. /thread Sorry I have no idea what you mean? Didn't read your post. Seems you used them as a counterexample anyway. Basically they had XI foreigners and won a treble. It means next to nothing to have local players, but in a romantic way it is quite nice. This. Even if there is some sort of research which suggests a correlation between more local players and relative success, I doubt there's much causation.[/uniwork] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Even John Terry is from Barking, east London, and was only poached by Chelsea at age 14 (from West Ham). [/wikipedia] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Need a local manager/messiah aswell to be successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think Alex Ferguson would disagree with all of you, and 'local' slightly misrepresents my point, which is as much about produced players as anything. Inter are a perfect example to back up my point too, as i said. A year later they're struggling because there was no foundations there beyond the manager. My point was about building consistent progress around certain players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Can those who voted yes give their reasons? I fully accept the emotional value and romanticism that local players bring, but I can't see how they improve team performance by being local. The closest I can think of is that they push themselves harder because they 'love' the club more? But as said players like Parker, Barton, Roy Keane gave their all to the club despite not being a local and then you have players like Shola who half the time looks like he couldn't care less so again I don't see a causation between being local and giving your all to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It helps, but it's not necessary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think Alex Ferguson would disagree with all of you, and 'local' slightly misrepresents my point, which is as much about produced players as anything. Inter are a perfect example to back up my point too, as i said. A year later they're struggling because there was no foundations there beyond the manager. My point was about building consistent progress around certain players. Yeah, I agree with this. It's more about building a consistent foundation by having players that (a) come through regularly enough to provide enough players and (b) have enough attachment to the club to stick around and care about how the club performs. Man Utd a brilliant example as you say, and Inter (and possibly Chelsea) an example of how success that is only built through mercenaries can be fleeting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think Alex Ferguson would disagree with all of you, and 'local' slightly misrepresents my point, which is as much about produced players as anything. Inter are a perfect example to back up my point too, as i said. A year later they're struggling because there was no foundations there beyond the manager. My point was about building consistent progress around certain players. To be fair to Inter, Jose is really one of the best and I don't really rate Rafa. Besides, they're not doing too poorly...3rd in the league, just 5 points behind Milan and still in the CL. To say that they are "struggling" to back up your point is disingenuous imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's just another positive attribute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think Alex Ferguson would disagree with all of you, and 'local' slightly misrepresents my point, which is as much about produced players as anything. Inter are a perfect example to back up my point too, as i said. A year later they're struggling because there was no foundations there beyond the manager. My point was about building consistent progress around certain players. Eh? 5 straight league titles under 2 different managers. They're successful because they've got good players, it has nothing to do with where they come from or how consistent the team has been. Infact not freshening the side over the summer like they had done in previous years probably contributed towards things stagnating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 We need Local Hero. It sends shivers down my spine every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 As a fan, seeing local boys bringing home the trophies makes me feel prouder of the team. If the teams are meant to represent their communities (and for me Barça does represent Barcelona/Catalonia), you need local lads on them otherwise you might as well be supporting a team 1000 km from where you live. But I agree it's not a necessity to achieve success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Interestingly looking at the locations of the people who have posted in this thread the vast majority are currently not Newcastle based. Local is very hard in this day of global scouting but there should be a core of players that have come through the ranks at club at all times. SAF could replace O'Shea or Brown in a heartbeat but he doesn't because he knows you have to core of players that are club men these players don't need to be DM who give 100% but players with spot on attitude & certain amount of ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Exactly Ian. Honestly don't think it's coincidence that as Terry and Lampard start to age and wane, so do Chelsea because the foundations beyond them don't exist. Lampard is an interesting exception because he wasn't theirs and they paid a lot for him but i've always thought of him as a local who the success since RA has been built around. I'm not trying to lay down hard and fast rules here but it's the same principle as the Liverpool boot room which brought them massive success across 20 years and 4 different managers. Buying players will only get you so far without a soul to the squad, a few who will always be there, no matter who comes and goes in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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