KK - "Pardew Won't See A Penny Of It"

[Guest magpie99]

Reading through some of the replies, it is just clear evidence that some of you are either (1) stuck in the dark ages still dreaming about 5-0 victories over Man Utd (b) unable to keep yourselves up to date with current events © total negativity of our current situation. If you are negative now, you must have been positively suicidal in May 2009.

 

Thwere has not been one admission from the KK supporters admitting that CURRENTLY, Ashley seems to be getting things right. We all know he has made errors, big errors in the past, one of the biggest being appointing Keegan, but it is clear tome that the club is being run oin a much better financial and business like footing than at any stage since as far back as I can reemember.

 

Once again, I am not an Ashley apologist and you can dig as many holes in the discussion regarding youth being reared properly but the records and the facts state the bleeding obvious. Keegan had no record of bringing youngsters through. The current NUFC policy has. We are even sending out some of our better kids in the reserves to reasonable standard first choices for regular first team football. Others are being given first team opportunities. Lets be honest here, how many kids got opportunities under Keegan. When things were not going to plan, his solution was to go out and buy players, eg. Batty, Asprilla etc.

 

As for the Arsenal model, yes, Wenger has been there over 10 years and we have just signed up oiur manager on a 5,5 year contract. Good young players at the club are now being offered longer contracts and whilst many of you would say they are not worth the paper they are written on, a player on a longer contract has a higher value than a player on a short contract. That is why we got 35 million for Carroll and why Enrique will probably be sold for less than his true value. So, IMO, trhe club making serious attempts to right previous wrongs whilst ensuring the financial stability of the club.

 

Is that too hard for some of you to understand or are you still all suffering from a blind hatred of the owner? Remember, Rome wasnt built in a day.

[cp40]

Reading through some of the replies, it is just clear evidence that some of you are either (1) stuck in the dark ages still dreaming about 5-0 victories over Man Utd (b) unable to keep yourselves up to date with current events © total negativity of our current situation. If you are negative now, you must have been positively suicidal in May 2009.

 

Thwere has not been one admission from the KK supporters admitting that CURRENTLY, Ashley seems to be getting things right. We all know he has made errors, big errors in the past, one of the biggest being appointing Keegan, but it is clear tome that the club is being run oin a much better financial and business like footing than at any stage since as far back as I can reemember.

 

Once again, I am not an Ashley apologist and you can dig as many holes in the discussion regarding youth being reared properly but the records and the facts state the bleeding obvious. Keegan had no record of bringing youngsters through. The current NUFC policy has. We are even sending out some of our better kids in the reserves to reasonable standard first choices for regular first team football. Others are being given first team opportunities. Lets be honest here, how many kids got opportunities under Keegan. When things were not going to plan, his solution was to go out and buy players, eg. Batty, Asprilla etc.

 

As for the Arsenal model, yes, Wenger has been there over 10 years and we have just signed up oiur manager on a 5,5 year contract. Good young players at the club are now being offered longer contracts and whilst many of you would say they are not worth the paper they are written on, a player on a longer contract has a higher value than a player on a short contract. That is why we got 35 million for Carroll and why Enrique will probably be sold for less than his true value. So, IMO, trhe club making serious attempts to right previous wrongs whilst ensuring the financial stability of the club.

 

Is that too hard for some of you to understand or are you still all suffering from a blind hatred of the owner? Remember, Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

 

you havent convinced me Relegation is better than finishing second.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

you havent convinced me Relegation is better than finishing second.

 

Unsurprised to see posts like this, but they're still annoying.

[ToonTastic]

Reading through some of the replies, it is just clear evidence that some of you are either (1) stuck in the dark ages still dreaming about 5-0 victories over Man Utd (b) unable to keep yourselves up to date with current events © total negativity of our current situation. If you are negative now, you must have been positively suicidal in May 2009.

 

Thwere has not been one admission from the KK supporters admitting that CURRENTLY, Ashley seems to be getting things right. We all know he has made errors, big errors in the past, one of the biggest being appointing Keegan, but it is clear tome that the club is being run oin a much better financial and business like footing than at any stage since as far back as I can reemember.

 

Once again, I am not an Ashley apologist and you can dig as many holes in the discussion regarding youth being reared properly but the records and the facts state the bleeding obvious. Keegan had no record of bringing youngsters through. The current NUFC policy has. We are even sending out some of our better kids in the reserves to reasonable standard first choices for regular first team football. Others are being given first team opportunities. Lets be honest here, how many kids got opportunities under Keegan. When things were not going to plan, his solution was to go out and buy players, eg. Batty, Asprilla etc.

 

As for the Arsenal model, yes, Wenger has been there over 10 years and we have just signed up oiur manager on a 5,5 year contract. Good young players at the club are now being offered longer contracts and whilst many of you would say they are not worth the paper they are written on, a player on a longer contract has a higher value than a player on a short contract. That is why we got 35 million for Carroll and why Enrique will probably be sold for less than his true value. So, IMO, trhe club making serious attempts to right previous wrongs whilst ensuring the financial stability of the club.

 

Is that too hard for some of you to understand or are you still all suffering from a blind hatred of the owner? Remember, Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

I have no doubts the club are doing well getting decent young players in on the cheap and well done to our scouting network for that cause nothing is changing in the youth setup to show that it's our setup suppplying these talented players it appears to come from the scouts.

 

As for the long term deals great we are signing people on long term contracts. The problem is we are now a selling club and this is the reason for the long contracts. Long contracts mean bigger transfer deals.

 

I have never liked Ashley and didn't ever want him to run the club even when he was getting on with the fans you can check my previous comments for that. He is running it how I imagined which is as a selling club trying to progress each year but in the long run wanting to make the business man at the top cash. He will be happy for this club to break even each year as it means he's not having to inject cash but welcome to the Ellis Villa model cause that's how it will be.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Out of interest TT, why didn't you like Ashley when he first arrived?

 

IIRC, most people thought it was amazing to have a billionaire English owner coming in, and they were very glad to see the back of Shepherd.

[cfcmagpies]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

It's very easy too see the difference? Before, the talent development was non existing. Every reinforcement had to be bought.  We didn't produce one single player. Now the club is abound with talent, and we have done some seriously good bargains. Tiote, Gosling and HBA are all proof of the new policy.  And look at the players we developed or are developing: Ranger, Vukic, Ferguson and Carroll. After Blackpool we have the highest concentration of british players in our team. This is exactly what Arsenal has been doing for years:scout Europe, finding cheap players and turning them into stars.

 

And MA has previously stated that he had to deal some players to balance the books. But the huge sum we got for Carroll probably saved us from selling more players than him. Now we're able to keep all our assets, as long as they want to stay.

 

Jumping the gun a little with those examples. Gosling has barely kicked a ball in anger, and HBA hasn't done much more. Of the youngsters, I'm sure Carroll was here before MA, and the other three are nothing more than kids with potential- at this stage.

 

Oh come on, just to prove your point, you're actually saying that HBA is not a bargain! Blame De Jong. Second if it wasn't for the focus on talents, it's likely that Carroll never would have gotten a chance, because the club had not the competence to spot his potential.

 

No, I was saying of the seven you cited as 'proof', two have achieved anything worthwhile (so far), one of whom was already on the books. The remainder are unproven at NUFC, having shown varying degrees of promise. HBA might very well prove to be a bargain, in fact I think it's more likely than not, but there was a reason we got him on the cheap.

[ToonTastic]

Out of interest TT, why didn't you like Ashley when he first arrived?

 

IIRC, most people thought it was amazing to have a billionaire English owner coming in, and they were very glad to see the back of Shepherd.

 

I'd met and worked with the man, directly in some cases and knew how his business mind worked. I couldn't see that changing with him taking over the club. I hated freddy as much as the next man but as has been said before he would get the cash and spend it when we needed it. He often went to far like he did with Owen and using all the sponsorship cash to pay for him.

We're kinda looking for someone in the middle really. Someone who will run with what Ashley has now started but is happy to spread payments on players so we can invest in quality players to improve the team who are known quality when we buy them.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Out of interest TT, why didn't you like Ashley when he first arrived?

 

IIRC, most people thought it was amazing to have a billionaire English owner coming in, and they were very glad to see the back of Shepherd.

 

I'd met and worked with the man, directly in some cases and knew how his business mind worked. I couldn't see that changing with him taking over the club. I hated freddy as much as the next man but as has been said before he would get the cash and spend it when we needed it. He often went to far like he did with Owen and using all the sponsorship cash to pay for him.

We're kinda looking for someone in the middle really. Someone who will run with what Ashley has now started but is happy to spread payments on players so we can invest in quality players to improve the team who are known quality when we buy them.

 

Good insight, seems to me that Ashley applying his business methods too directly to NUFC is what has led to a lot of the mistakes he has made. I can imagine his reaction to Carroll, a young lad asking for a second big pay rise in weeks!

 

In the end though, I think he might be vindicated in that the rest of the football world (who aren't owned by sugar daddies) will have to cut their cloth accordingly as well.

[ToonTastic]

In the end though, I think he might be vindicated in that the rest of the football world (who aren't owned by sugar daddies) will have to cut their cloth accordingly as well.

I do agree with this, however this will be more down to UEFA than anything else by changing the rules on entry to Europe.

[Punk77]

The reason why we got him on the cheap has nothing to do with his football abilities, but him being what someone may term a bad seed. According to some rapports this is an unfair assumption. There's a reason why Wenger talks about HBA as on of the greatest French talents, and why we now  see an influx of Frenchmen attending  matches and registering on this forum: He's an insanely good player.

[Dave]

What would constitute vindication for you Ian? Genuine question.

[Guest magpie99]

There was also a reason why we got Gosling for nothing, Tiote for less than 4 million, Krul for 500,000, etc. I would imagine if we decide to sell Forster to Celtic, they would have to pay somewhere in excess of 3 million pounds to get him. Same goes for Kadar and we all know that Tiote is worth anywhere between 15 and 20 million in the current market.

 

We know BenArfa has baggage in the past but as he gets older, he could mature and settle down. Hopefully, the club will play to hos strengths when he finally comes back. The likes of Vickic, Kadar, Ferguson are pklayers of the future who will impact at some time.

 

Nile Ranger has the chance at the moment. I think he has done his stint as a major impact sub and now it is time to start him alongside Best. I am sure he will succeed and when he does, he could become even more valued than Carroll.

[ToonTastic]

Looking back this makes depressing reading http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,40533.0.html

[AyeDubbleYoo]

What would constitute vindication for you Ian? Genuine question.

 

In respect of his business model, seeing that other clubs were having to cut wages and spending less on transfer fees in the same way as we are. Continuing to acquire really good players for reasonable fees.

 

Obviously the business side can't be separated from the football side, and that's where the crunch comes. As the Arsenal chief exec said in that great BBC interview recently, the objective of Arsenal FC is to spend every penny they make. Just not spend too much more.

 

In football terms, it'll be difficult to say when Ashley has been vindicated, if it's even possible. I suspect it will never happen unless he delivers a trophy or something else totally unprecedented... his bridges are well and truly burnt with some people.

 

Say we have another 3 or 4 seasons of steady progress, with us maybe qualifying for Europe once or twice, then I would say that we would be as good a position as when he arrived. Depending on how much importance you give to finances, you could argue a better position.

 

Then it also can't be separated from where the club was heading before Ashley. I know you don't agree that our existence was in danger, and you're probably right. Banks are going to be reluctant to force a Premier League club out of business.

 

But I think we can agree that our debt position was unsustainable and something needed to change. We couldn't go on buying Owens and Luques and Duffs - players who weren't up to it for superstar salaries.

 

The way I see it, the only better alternative to Ashley's way is the Man City model - and that's also wrong really.

[magorific]

There was also a reason why we got Gosling for nothing, Tiote for less than 4 million, Krul for 500,000, etc. I would imagine if we decide to sell Forster to Celtic, they would have to pay somewhere in excess of 3 million pounds to get him. Same goes for Kadar and we all know that Tiote is worth anywhere between 15 and 20 million in the current market.

 

We know BenArfa has baggage in the past but as he gets older, he could mature and settle down. Hopefully, the club will play to hos strengths when he finally comes back. The likes of Vickic, Kadar, Ferguson are pklayers of the future who will impact at some time.

 

Nile Ranger has the chance at the moment. I think he has done his stint as a major impact sub and now it is time to start him alongside Best. I am sure he will succeed and when he does, he could become even more valued than Carroll.

 

More than £3m for Kadar? Ranger potentially "more valued than Carroll"?

Planet Earth?

 

[Wullie]

Krul was here years before Ashley turned up as well.

[mrmojorisin75]

Looking back this makes depressing reading http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,40533.0.html

 

NE5

[BottledDog]

Moncur thinks Keegan should pipe the fuck down.

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/

[Dave]

What would constitute vindication for you Ian? Genuine question.

 

In respect of his business model, seeing that other clubs were having to cut wages and spending less on transfer fees in the same way as we are. Continuing to acquire really good players for reasonable fees.

 

Obviously the business side can't be separated from the football side, and that's where the crunch comes. As the Arsenal chief exec said in that great BBC interview recently, the objective of Arsenal FC is to spend every penny they make. Just not spend too much more.

 

In football terms, it'll be difficult to say when Ashley has been vindicated, if it's even possible. I suspect it will never happen unless he delivers a trophy or something else totally unprecedented... his bridges are well and truly burnt with some people.

 

Say we have another 3 or 4 seasons of steady progress, with us maybe qualifying for Europe once or twice, then I would say that we would be as good a position as when he arrived. Depending on how much importance you give to finances, you could argue a better position.

 

Then it also can't be separated from where the club was heading before Ashley. I know you don't agree that our existence was in danger, and you're probably right. Banks are going to be reluctant to force a Premier League club out of business.

 

But I think we can agree that our debt position was unsustainable and something needed to change. We couldn't go on buying Owens and Luques and Duffs - players who weren't up to it for superstar salaries.

 

The way I see it, the only better alternative to Ashley's way is the Man City model - and that's also wrong really.

 

Thanks mate, appreciate that.

[Wullie]

If this policy of buying good young players or relatively unknown and relatively cheap players whose value will increase is new, what was Dyer? Jenas? Woodgate? Krul? N'Zogbia? Bellamy? Krul? Given? Bernard? Solano? Milner? Acuna?

 

This idea that Ashley is doing something new and revolutionary is such an unbearable load of shit.

[BottledDog]

If this policy of buying good young players or relatively unknown and relatively cheap players whose value will increase is new, what was Dyer? Jenas? Woodgate? Krul? N'Zogbia? Bellamy? Krul? Given? Bernard? Solano? Milner? Acuna?

 

This idea that Ashley is doing something new and revolutionary is such an unbearable load of shit.

 

Revolutionary? I cant' imagine many have said that it was that, but it is certainly a more defined policy. Of course we have bought young players in the past, the difference now is that there is a greater reluctance to spend big on players over the age of 25.

 

Good, sensible stuff imho.

 

 

 

 

[oldtype]

This argument is pointless as long as people refuse to accept that it's possible to blame both Ashley and Keegan for what happened without being an "Ashley apologist"

[Dave]

This argument is pointless as long as people refuse to accept that it's possible to blame both Ashley and Keegan for what happened without being a "Keegan fanboy"

[oldtype]

http://postfiles7.naver.net/20101030_198/leeglintstar_12884117419782BVre_jpg/%ED%93%A8%EC%A0%84_leeglintstar.jpg?type=w2

 

oldtype + dave = yup, this argument is pointless.

 

 

[Dave]

oldtype + dave = yup, this argument is pointless.