Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Guest sydneycove]

Also the fact that Messi generally plays on the wing for Argentina and not just off the strikers like at Barca so he is not going to score as many goals.

 

It is the equivalent of people overlooking the work Jonas does for us because his end product is shit.

[Guest Dontooner]

Has anybody stopped to consider the Argentina thing may not be Messi's fault. He had to put up with Maradonna at the last WC if they had of won with that bat s*** crazy drugged up psychopath at the helm it would have been the greatest team performance of all time.

 

some of us have, plenty don't want to hear it though...cronaldo in the same boat, is he expected to carry portugal to a WC before he can be considered "great"

 

Exactly the reason why they are not rated as highly as yet....Great players tend to lead their teams to nearly winning or overachieving in their teams...No excuses here as they both play mediocre when playing for their national teams. Great players win games on their own at times.

[Guest sydneycove]

Has anybody stopped to consider the Argentina thing may not be Messi's fault. He had to put up with Maradonna at the last WC if they had of won with that bat s*** crazy drugged up psychopath at the helm it would have been the greatest team performance of all time.

 

some of us have, plenty don't want to hear it though...cronaldo in the same boat, is he expected to carry portugal to a WC before he can be considered "great"

 

Exactly the reason why they are not rated as highly as yet....Great players tend to lead their teams to nearly winning or overachieving in their teams...No excuses here as they both play mediocre when playing for their national teams. Great players win games on their own at times.

 

Did you seriously just suggest Messi doesn't win games on his own for Argentina.....

 

The only mediocre performance for Argentina I can remember Messi putting in was a friendly against Australia in Australia were he had to fly halfway round the world a few days after a game and even then he was the best player on the pitch.

[Guest Dontooner]

Doesnt matter till he wins something for Argentina in a real competition...while he is performing like you so described. You do understand the tensions and competitiveness is completely different at the world cup level ??

 

You can argue all you want at the friendly's or qualifiers but it is not a yard stick for performance at the knock out stage. 

[Guest sydneycove]

So then George Best isn't one of the greatest players ever?

 

Neither are Cryuff, Di Stefano, Puskas, Platini or Eusebio going by your logic.

 

[johnnypd]

Doesnt matter till he wins something for Argentina in a real competition...while he is performing like you so described. You do understand the tensions and competitiveness is completely different at the world cup level ??

 

You can argue all you want at the friendly's or qualifiers but it is not a yard stick for performance at the knock out stage. 

 

its not as simple as saying he needs to win something, too many elements outside his control for that - but he does need to put in an inspiring tournament performance some time, even if the argies dont win, ie cruyff 74, maradona in 1990, baggio in 94, zidane 2006.

[Guest Dontooner]

As i mentioned... Messi is a great player of our time...but the fact is he is in the shadows Fat Ronaldo, Zidane , Pele and some you mention till he proves it. His abilities are not to be doubted but his Mental strength and leadership skills are still in question.

Facts are Facts ...you can idolize a player for all you want...but results are the only measure of success... Thats probably why Pele is ahead by miles....

[Guest sydneycove]

As i mentioned... Messi is a great player of our time...but the fact is he is in the shadows Fat Ronaldo, Zidane , Pele and some you mention till he proves it. His abilities are not to be doubted but his Mental strength and leadership skills are still in question.

Facts are Facts ...you can idolize a player for all you want...but results are the only measure of success... Thats probably why Pele is ahead by miles....

 

Now your changing you story you said:

 

Doesnt matter till he wins something for Argentina in a real competition...while he is performing like you so described. You do understand the tensions and competitiveness is completely different at the world cup level ??

 

You can argue all you want at the friendly's or qualifiers but it is not a yard stick for performance at the knock out stage. 

 

So either Messi is one of the greatest or the names I mentioned are only great players not some of the greatest players to ever play football.

 

Either way you look like a fool.

[Guest Dontooner]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

[Guest sydneycove]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

[Guest Dontooner]

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=messi+sexy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=qIV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=765&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=t2yEr7A97PFuDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.burbujasdeseo.com/2009/12/leo-messi-sexy-en-las-playas-de-abu-dabi/&docid=7Po5Wqz1unLCJM&w=499&h=334&ei=_AiETrS9I8jNrQeng6nqDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=350&vpy=149&dur=2934&hovh=184&hovw=275&tx=104&ty=59&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=161&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

For you fan service...

[Guest sydneycove]

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=messi+sexy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=qIV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=765&bih=739&tbm=isch&tbnid=t2yEr7A97PFuDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.burbujasdeseo.com/2009/12/leo-messi-sexy-en-las-playas-de-abu-dabi/&docid=7Po5Wqz1unLCJM&w=499&h=334&ei=_AiETrS9I8jNrQeng6nqDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=350&vpy=149&dur=2934&hovh=184&hovw=275&tx=104&ty=59&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=161&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

For you fan service...

 

What are you 12 years old?

 

Take a hint your argument has been ripped to shreds guve up before you look even more foolish.

[Guest Dontooner]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

[Guest sydneycove]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

 

A 43 year old with the mental capacity of a 12 year old. Fairly sure this is how serial killer movies start........

 

I hope you enjoyed the complimentry humble pie and egg on your face that came with the complete destruction of your posts over the last 2 pages.

[M4]

I'd say he's surpassed Zidane already.

 

Whilst Messi doesn't have that international tournament notch on his belt, Zidane lacked consistency at club level. Messi's been so ridiculously good and consistent for years now plus given how more important club football is today, to me mentioning Zidane as someone he needs to equal or surpass rings false.

[SimplyAnth]

By the far the greatest player ive been old enough and interested enough to appreciate. Surely with the way the game has progressed he's the greatest technically and physically ?

[Guest sydneycove]

By the far the greatest player ive been old enough and interested enough to appreciate. Surely with the way the game has progressed he's the greatest technically and physically ?

 

his physicall attributes are even more amazing considering his size.

[Flip]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

 

A 43 year old with the mental capacity of a 12 year old. Fairly sure this is how serial killer movies start........

 

I hope you enjoyed the complimentry humble pie and egg on your face that came with the complete destruction of your posts over the last 2 pages.

 

Actually I agree with Dontooner. When there's talk about the greatest ever it's fucking ridiculous to even discuss it. There is one who was the Greatest and many who were great. Pele was a level above every individual player during his era. He is a head and shoulder above anyone who's dominated world football.

 

The facts are easy to why he was the best, he scored over 1000 goals, he won 3 world cup and multiple national titles being top goal scorer over 10 times playing the best teams of Brazil at that time. Remember that Brazil and Argentina probably had the most competitive club football in the world back then and playing away from home was like walking into the middle of a forest in the middle of the night, scary as hell. Pele was never protected by the referees as players are nowadays and had he been maybe he would've won the 1966 World Cup to, as he was brutally assaulted every single match during that world cup and no subs were allowed so he was limping around the whole match. He is possibly the only person ever being capable to make a ceasefire during a civil war possible. In 1967 both sides during the Nigerian Civil War ceasedfire for 48 hours to watch Pele play an exhibition game, tell me if any players have that power or that courage to enter a country like that.

 

Players like Maradona, Zico, Garrincha, Puskas, Di Stefano, Messi, Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Romario, Ronaldo and so on, are never reaching that level of play.

 

Pele was consistent for 18 years, lets see if Messi is consistent for 18 years, and please don't argue about 'Pele wouldn't have a chance nowadays' as of course he wouldn't, except if he had been brought up at the same time, because TALENT wise there will probably never be a player as good as Pele.

[Tooj]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

 

A 43 year old with the mental capacity of a 12 year old. Fairly sure this is how serial killer movies start........

 

I hope you enjoyed the complimentry humble pie and egg on your face that came with the complete destruction of your posts over the last 2 pages.

 

Actually I agree with Dontooner. When there's talk about the greatest ever it's fucking ridiculous to even discuss it. There is one who was the Greatest and many who were great. Pele was a level above every individual player during his era. He is a head and shoulder above anyone who's dominated world football.

 

The facts are easy to why he was the best, he scored over 1000 goals, he won 3 world cup and multiple national titles being top goal scorer over 10 times playing the best teams of Brazil at that time. Remember that Brazil and Argentina probably had the most competitive club football in the world back then and playing away from home was like walking into the middle of a forest in the middle of the night, scary as hell. Pele was never protected by the referees as players are nowadays and had he been maybe he would've won the 1966 World Cup to, as he was brutally assaulted every single match during that world cup and no subs were allowed so he was limping around the whole match. He is possibly the only person ever being capable to make a ceasefire during a civil war possible. In 1967 both sides during the Nigerian Civil War ceasedfire for 48 hours to watch Pele play an exhibition game, tell me if any players have that power or that courage to enter a country like that.

 

Players like Maradona, Zico, Garrincha, Puskas, Di Stefano, Messi, Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Romario, Ronaldo and so on, are never reaching that level of play.

 

Pele was consistent for 18 years, lets see if Messi is consistent for 18 years, and please don't argue about 'Pele wouldn't have a chance nowadays' as of course he wouldn't, except if he had been brought up at the same time, because TALENT wise there will probably never be a player as good as Pele.

 

Preach it brother.

[Guest sydneycove]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

 

A 43 year old with the mental capacity of a 12 year old. Fairly sure this is how serial killer movies start........

 

I hope you enjoyed the complimentry humble pie and egg on your face that came with the complete destruction of your posts over the last 2 pages.

 

Actually I agree with Dontooner. When there's talk about the greatest ever it's f***ing ridiculous to even discuss it. There is one who was the Greatest and many who were great. Pele was a level above every individual player during his era. He is a head and shoulder above anyone who's dominated world football.

 

The facts are easy to why he was the best, he scored over 1000 goals, he won 3 world cup and multiple national titles being top goal scorer over 10 times playing the best teams of Brazil at that time. Remember that Brazil and Argentina probably had the most competitive club football in the world back then and playing away from home was like walking into the middle of a forest in the middle of the night, scary as hell. Pele was never protected by the referees as players are nowadays and had he been maybe he would've won the 1966 World Cup to, as he was brutally assaulted every single match during that world cup and no subs were allowed so he was limping around the whole match. He is possibly the only person ever being capable to make a ceasefire during a civil war possible. In 1967 both sides during the Nigerian Civil War ceasedfire for 48 hours to watch Pele play an exhibition game, tell me if any players have that power or that courage to enter a country like that.

 

Players like Maradona, Zico, Garrincha, Puskas, Di Stefano, Messi, Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Romario, Ronaldo and so on, are never reaching that level of play.

 

Pele was consistent for 18 years, lets see if Messi is consistent for 18 years, and please don't argue about 'Pele wouldn't have a chance nowadays' as of course he wouldn't, except if he had been brought up at the same time, because TALENT wise there will probably never be a player as good as Pele.

 

Except you know that wasn't the argument we just had. Good way to completely miss the point.

 

Also Pele and Romario for that matter arguably scored over 1000 goals.

[Flip]

Preaching to the choir.

[Flip]

lol ....you must be a massive Messi fan to be so bias in your own argument, i will leave you wanking to your childhood hero ... have fun.

 

imo Pele is the yard stick as the greatest with the results and performances to prove..if you want to compare your hero to greats but not the greatest. Read the title thread again

 

How mature your argument gets ripped to shreds so you try to insult me. Well played. Oh now Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini, Cryuff and Eusebio aren't the greatest. Clutching at straws there son.

lol i am 43..

There is only one greatest player to be compared with..

the rest are great players

End of .. not going to reply to the thread anymore

 

A 43 year old with the mental capacity of a 12 year old. Fairly sure this is how serial killer movies start........

 

I hope you enjoyed the complimentry humble pie and egg on your face that came with the complete destruction of your posts over the last 2 pages.

 

Actually I agree with Dontooner. When there's talk about the greatest ever it's f***ing ridiculous to even discuss it. There is one who was the Greatest and many who were great. Pele was a level above every individual player during his era. He is a head and shoulder above anyone who's dominated world football.

 

The facts are easy to why he was the best, he scored over 1000 goals, he won 3 world cup and multiple national titles being top goal scorer over 10 times playing the best teams of Brazil at that time. Remember that Brazil and Argentina probably had the most competitive club football in the world back then and playing away from home was like walking into the middle of a forest in the middle of the night, scary as hell. Pele was never protected by the referees as players are nowadays and had he been maybe he would've won the 1966 World Cup to, as he was brutally assaulted every single match during that world cup and no subs were allowed so he was limping around the whole match. He is possibly the only person ever being capable to make a ceasefire during a civil war possible. In 1967 both sides during the Nigerian Civil War ceasedfire for 48 hours to watch Pele play an exhibition game, tell me if any players have that power or that courage to enter a country like that.

 

Players like Maradona, Zico, Garrincha, Puskas, Di Stefano, Messi, Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, Romario, Ronaldo and so on, are never reaching that level of play.

 

Pele was consistent for 18 years, lets see if Messi is consistent for 18 years, and please don't argue about 'Pele wouldn't have a chance nowadays' as of course he wouldn't, except if he had been brought up at the same time, because TALENT wise there will probably never be a player as good as Pele.

 

Except you know that wasn't the argument we just had. Good way to completely miss the point.

 

Aye, was agreeing with Dontooner about how there was one greatest and the rest great. For the rest of my post has nothing to do with you women fighting  

[Flip]

Except Romario played 200 friendlies against shit opposition to get to that number, Pele wasn't looking for a record hence the 1200+ and Romario like 3-4 goals above 1000 (which is still debatable).

[Guest sydneycove]

There is always that argument as well that Messi comes up against a much higher standard of player these days. Pele and the Crazy Druggo had to deal with people attempting to hack them yes but Messi has to deal with much better defences in technical and tactical ability.

[Guest sydneycove]

Except Romario played 200 friendlies against s*** opposition to get to that number, Pele wasn't looking for a record hence the 1200+ and Romario like 3-4 goals above 1000 (which is still debatable).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Goalscoring_and_appearance_record

 

Also includes friendlies and what not.