Incognito Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 In fact I probably would select Neuer ahead of Maier if both were around today. Maier was to all intents and purpose, a better version of Kahn. But not as good as Neuer is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 to tmonkey's post about the improvement in keepers. When I've seen old film of Bobby Charlton specials, my main impression has always been that a modern keeper would have stopped a lot of them. On a similar tip, if you watch old cricket matches from the 50s definitely and possibly as late as the 70s, a decent hit maybe only six feet wide of any fielder was four runs. The fielder will kind of bend down a bit, but it's all kind of "jolly good stroke". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie1892 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I don't know how you can say something like that. There's absolutely no tangible reason that they wouldn't be as good. Nor is there that they would be. What im saying is that to me the best goalies generally come from a bygone age. The likes of Banks, Yashin, Shilton, Arconada and even Sepp Maier would walk into any XI today. Edit: Add Zoff, Dasaeyev and Preudhomme to them also. I would have to disagree with that, although the argument could be that the game and the overall role of a keeper has changed dramatically, as has the outfield game. Speed, ball technology, fitness and the mental side all play a part in this whether people like it or not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 As College Dropout said its swings and roundabouts, there's things today which make it easier for Messi than it did in Pele's and Maradona's time but at same time certain things that make it more difficult to shine. That's why its pretty much impossible to compare eras as much as we all like to, there will never be an undisputed no 1 because of this. But Messi is arguably in the bracket of those players. Without making the debate seem redundant, that's about as far as you can realistically take it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 As College Dropout said its swings and roundabouts, there's things today which make it easier for Messi than it did in Pele's and Maradona's time but at same time certain things that make it more difficult to shine. That's why its pretty much impossible to compare eras as much as we all like to, there will never be an undisputed no 1 because of this. But Messi is arguably in the bracket of those players. Without making the debate seem redundant, that's about as far as you can realistically take it. These debates will always be about though, because there cannot be a defining answer...it's great fun doing it though..I've had many conversations down the pub over the years comparing sportspeople from different eras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Aye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think the reason that it happens is because in other sports there have been people that have been pretty much undisputed as being the best. Jordan, Rossi, possibly Woods etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think that's because football has been a professional sport with worldwide interest longer than those other sports. Thus there's more candidates which can be considered for the discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think the reason that it happens is because in other sports there have been people that have been pretty much undisputed as being the best. Jordan, Rossi, possibly Woods etc Individual sports is one thing, however Jordan isn't the undisputed best, there are arguments for players like Lebron to be considered the best as well. Not that I think anyone comes close to Jordan, but some people argue that. I just think in individual sports it's easier to proclaim someone the best while in a team sport it's a bit more complex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 For me its Pele Maradona and then Messi. However he can change all that tomorrow by starring and helping his team to win the WC. Do that and the crown is his as the greatest of them all. He needs to put in a huge performance of the kind Pele put in as a 17 year-old, or the kind Maradona did when he defeated England. It has to be of that level or of that nature. We all know he is undoubtedly one of the best ever, but this is his moment now, his once chance to fucking nail it and big game/name players usually perform or do the business. He hasn't played badly at all this tournament, but he is meant to be the best player ever or one of the best and his performances thus far haven't indicated that. A huge huge game for him tomorrow like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 to tmonkey's post about the improvement in keepers. When I've seen old film of Bobby Charlton specials, my main impression has always been that a modern keeper would have stopped a lot of them. On a similar tip, if you watch old cricket matches from the 50s definitely and possibly as late as the 70s, a decent hit maybe only six feet wide of any fielder was four runs. The fielder will kind of bend down a bit, but it's all kind of "jolly good stroke". You sure you weren't watching an India game from last week? #indianfanhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'm not saying anyone is better than anyone or more complete than the other, but I've seen a few people say there is no doubt Pele is the most complete footballer of all time. What makes him more complete than Cristiano Ronaldo? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Read what I posted here. http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,75836.msg5104113.html#msg5104113 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'm not saying anyone is better than anyone or more complete than the other, but I've seen a few people say there is no doubt Pele is the most complete footballer of all time. What makes him more complete than Cristiano Ronaldo? Just curious. :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: :anguish: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're welcome to point out the weaknesses in Ronaldos game to me. I think Pele is better from what I've seen but Ronaldo is every bit as complete IMO. Both feet, heading, skill, speed, strength, free kicks, penalties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're welcome to point out the weaknesses in Ronaldos game to me. I think Pele is better from what I've seen but Ronaldo is every bit as complete IMO. Both feet, heading, skill, speed, strength, free kicks, penalties. You're just forgetting brain, vision, creativeness which made Pele the best. Pele could be the #9 as well as the #10 faultlessly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Again, Ronaldo has all of that. Pele was better, but that isn't the point here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Close contol, agility, passing, vision etc etc..... all things Messi for example is vastly superior at. Ronaldo isn't that great at any of them, that's by no means a bad thing btw i think the complete stuff for any player is utter nonsense. Every single player has weaknesses in their game, that includes Messi, Maradona and Pele. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Again, Ronaldo has all of that. Pele was better, but that isn't the point here. Ronaldo could never play the #10 role and no Ronaldo doesn't have all of that. Ronaldo is an effective machine, one of the best goal scorers I'll ever see, but he's not near the top guys when it comes to technique, intelligent and vision on the pitch. He's got dribbling skills, goal scoring ability and is physically superior to most players nowadays. But he's no Cruyff, Messi, Maradona, or Pele. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're welcome to point out the weaknesses in Ronaldos game to me. I think Pele is better from what I've seen but Ronaldo is every bit as complete IMO. Both feet, heading, skill, speed, strength, free kicks, penalties. Thought it was in comparison to Messi. I didn't see Pele so can't comment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I think because of what Ronaldo has turned into people forget just how good he was with the ball at his feet. It's like people forget his first few seasons in England. He absolutely has everything you mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're welcome to point out the weaknesses in Ronaldos game to me. I think Pele is better from what I've seen but Ronaldo is every bit as complete IMO. Both feet, heading, skill, speed, strength, free kicks, penalties. Thought it was in comparison to Messi. I didn't see Pele so can't comment Ronaldo is 100% more complete than Messi like. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're welcome to point out the weaknesses in Ronaldos game to me. I think Pele is better from what I've seen but Ronaldo is every bit as complete IMO. Both feet, heading, skill, speed, strength, free kicks, penalties. Thought it was in comparison to Messi. I didn't see Pele so can't comment Ronaldo is 100% more complete than Messi like. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Not going to bite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Messi might be the better player but of course Ronaldo's more complete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I think because of what Ronaldo has turned into people forget just how good he was with the ball at his feet. It's like people forget his first few seasons in England. He absolutely has everything you mentioned. That's irrelevant he's not that player anymore, he's lost close control and he hardly dribbles anymore for the trade off being as effective as possible goal scorer. And no he's not more complete than Messi, the only things he's better than Messi at is heading and long shots. But as i said in the previous page this complete stuff is nonsense, every single player has weaknesses no one is anywhere near complete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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