Guest BooBoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 When you think about it, crafting relationships with players, building a good confident camp etc., is an extremely difficult thing to do and is more important to winning games and getting players to perform than any tactic or analysis. KK is probably as astute as any manager when it comes to tactics and analysis but such things just don't feature in the way he manages players and builds a team. I have a book (KK the last romantic or something) and in it Tony Adams said KK would create some amazing drills and games for the forwards that were really inventive while England manager that had the defenders jelous of all the fun the forwards would have while they got "you're Tony Adams, the best centre-back in the world for me, you'll have no problem marking Ronaldo", that's what KK would say to him Adams also said KK was like a big kid in training, taking active part in 5-a-side games and that his relationship with the players was more of a mate or team-mate than a boss. That's not to say KK couldn't play that role. You have to copmpare and contrast to the cold-fish Capello who seemingly created a terrible atmosphere in the England camp in SA, our players never looked up for it at all. At least in the ill fated Euro 2000 tournament, we had a go and went out (albeit in the group) battling instead of going out on our knees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Must say mind, there's not a cat in hells chance a proud Jock, like Fergie would ever consider managing England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Think you're totally right about the style of play we need HTT. For me the most important thing for an England manager is having the balls to pick players that fit into that Premier League style of play, and the right players in the right positions. That means leaving out some of the big names.... I've yet to see an England manager that even thinks about doing that. Exactly. What is all this about Lampard on the left with Gerrard in midfield or vice versa just to have the two in the same side. Stuff that. Get a proper winger wide and drop one of the two. Same up top. Stuff having Gerrard playing off whoever, stick two forwards up there, get in two wingers and play attacking direct football. By direct don't confuse me with the long ball. Think Sir Bobby's NUFC direct. That's what we need and the next England manager needs to be chosen very carefully on that basis as someone who can pick the right players and play a system that said players know and can play and can play well. Me, I'd try and tempt Sir Alex Ferguson who I think could well retire his post at Man Utd should he win the Premier League and Champions League. Although he would probably want to make it 6 European Cup's to Liverpool's 5. Couldn't agree more with both posts. England managers recently have been all talk and no balls. Pick the players in-form, in their right positions and play to their strengths. Too many have picked based on reputation, have tinkered and twisted to fit those players in (Lampard/Gerrard) and have tried to play like other international teams. The Premier League is different, the English playing style is different. It's about time we adopted a fresh and innovative system than try to be like everyone else (and fail miserably at it). Thats the differance betwean us and the top sides like, imagine Brazilians saying "We need to play more like Spain (and Italy before them)", it just doesn't happen, infact it's the exact opposite, Dunga go bollocked for not playing the 'Brazilian way'. We cannot expect to win a major competition any time soon, as we just havn't got the quality that other nations have, but we stand a much better chance of doing so if we cut out this whole bollocks of looking at other teams succeses and compairing them to our failings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 http://www.boggsport.com/2011/05/kevin-keegan-interview-off-ball.html Recent radio interview with Keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I feel like watching Mike Bassett: England Manager now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Every interview he ever seems to have leaves me agreeing with every word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Think you're totally right about the style of play we need HTT. For me the most important thing for an England manager is having the balls to pick players that fit into that Premier League style of play, and the right players in the right positions. That means leaving out some of the big names.... I've yet to see an England manager that even thinks about doing that. Exactly. What is all this about Lampard on the left with Gerrard in midfield or vice versa just to have the two in the same side. Stuff that. Get a proper winger wide and drop one of the two. Same up top. Stuff having Gerrard playing off whoever, stick two forwards up there, get in two wingers and play attacking direct football. By direct don't confuse me with the long ball. Think Sir Bobby's NUFC direct. That's what we need and the next England manager needs to be chosen very carefully on that basis as someone who can pick the right players and play a system that said players know and can play and can play well. Me, I'd try and tempt Sir Alex Ferguson who I think could well retire his post at Man Utd should he win the Premier League and Champions League. Although he would probably want to make it 6 European Cup's to Liverpool's 5. Couldn't agree more with both posts. England managers recently have been all talk and no balls. Pick the players in-form, in their right positions and play to their strengths. Too many have picked based on reputation, have tinkered and twisted to fit those players in (Lampard/Gerrard) and have tried to play like other international teams. The Premier League is different, the English playing style is different. It's about time we adopted a fresh and innovative system than try to be like everyone else (and fail miserably at it). Thats the differance betwean us and the top sides like, imagine Brazilians saying "We need to play more like Spain (and Italy before them)", it just doesn't happen, infact it's the exact opposite, Dunga go bollocked for not playing the 'Brazilian way'. We cannot expect to win a major competition any time soon, as we just havn't got the quality that other nations have, but we stand a much better chance of doing so if we cut out this whole bollocks of looking at other teams succeses and compairing them to our failings. Agreed. I think there's sometimes too much fashion following when it comes to tactics. Back in the mid nineties loads of teams were playing 3-5-2 and to not do so was deemed unadvanced. Even KK tried it on a handful of occassions to disasterous effect. Whether we like it or not England have got a potential powerhouse of a number 9 in Carroll and should be looking to employ two effective wide men who can hit the byeline and supply quality into the box. Play to our strengths rather than cow-towing to slot in what other countries are doing. Adam Johnson for me, should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. The kid is quality and needs to be a first teamer ahead of so-so dross like SWP or Ashley Young. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I agree Otter, except I really rate Ashley Young. He could be the left side of that system IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Would prefer Young on the right with Johnson on the left for England anyway (Johnsons left footed isn't he?) Get down the touchline and balls into the box. Andam Johnson is quality like, has everything a proper winger needs, pace, skill, power, and a good left/right foot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Yes he's left footed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I feel thick as f*** like but just didn;t want to throw all of my eggs into one basket and come out looking like a complete spanner, thought it was best to make sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It sickens me knowing a man like KK who I have huge respect for and indeed love (I don't care how corny that sounds, I love the man) is bitter and twisted about a game he gave so much to and a game that badly needs people like him if it is to return to the game it was once - a peoples game. The fans' game. Now its a game of money, agents, spoiled brats with zero loyalty and big business. Oh and contemptable cunts who couldn't blow a football up with a pump never mind kick one - cunts like Ashley who know fuck all. :clap: Agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 When you think about it, crafting relationships with players, building a good confident camp etc., is an extremely difficult thing to do and is more important to winning games and getting players to perform than any tactic or analysis. KK is probably as astute as any manager when it comes to tactics and analysis but such things just don't feature in the way he manages players and builds a team. I have a book (KK the last romantic or something) and in it Tony Adams said KK would create some amazing drills and games for the forwards that were really inventive while England manager that had the defenders jelous of all the fun the forwards would have while they got "you're Tony Adams, the best centre-back in the world for me, you'll have no problem marking Ronaldo", that's what KK would say to him Adams also said KK was like a big kid in training, taking active part in 5-a-side games and that his relationship with the players was more of a mate or team-mate than a boss. That's not to say KK couldn't play that role. You have to copmpare and contrast to the cold-fish Capello who seemingly created a terrible atmosphere in the England camp in SA, our players never looked up for it at all. At least in the ill fated Euro 2000 tournament, we had a go and went out (albeit in the group) battling instead of going out on our knees. Aye, we actually played some decent stuff at Euro 2000 at times and tried to attack and get at opponents and the players seemed up for it and showed some type of disappointment at going out. Capello should have been sacked the moment we went out of the S.Africa tournament and half the players binned for good. Give me KK's methods over Capello's who incidentally I rate as a top-class manager but he just isn't international material, certainly not for England anyway. I imagine the players struggle communicating to him and simply just nod when he speaks rather than challenging him or talking over things. I would get rid of Capello once we qualify for the next Euros, if we qualify which we should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Must say mind, there's not a cat in hells chance a proud Jock, like Fergie would ever consider managing England. I wouldn't know like, I think his ego and ambition would overrule any patriotism which I think isn't as strong as your average Scot's patriotism. Another manager who I feel would work well in the England set-up and get the team playing to its strengths would be Mark Hughes, an abrasive style manager who likes to play direct who actually had moderate success with Wales, picking players to play in a system that suited their strengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It sickens me knowing a man like KK who I have huge respect for and indeed love (I don't care how corny that sounds, I love the man) is bitter and twisted about a game he gave so much to and a game that badly needs people like him if it is to return to the game it was once - a peoples game. The fans' game. Now its a game of money, agents, spoiled brats with zero loyalty and big business. Oh and contemptable cunts who couldn't blow a football up with a pump never mind kick one - cunts like Ashley who know fuck all. agreed. however, i think he needs to get over it, and what happened to him at newcastle. i think he's still angry at ashley and co (and who wouldn't be after dealing with those cretins?) but it only harms himself if he keeps that attitude. he's always been one of the most positive and charismatic people in the game and it would be sad to see him still disillusioned when he should be of football's champions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Think you're totally right about the style of play we need HTT. For me the most important thing for an England manager is having the balls to pick players that fit into that Premier League style of play, and the right players in the right positions. That means leaving out some of the big names.... I've yet to see an England manager that even thinks about doing that. Exactly. What is all this about Lampard on the left with Gerrard in midfield or vice versa just to have the two in the same side. Stuff that. Get a proper winger wide and drop one of the two. Same up top. Stuff having Gerrard playing off whoever, stick two forwards up there, get in two wingers and play attacking direct football. By direct don't confuse me with the long ball. Think Sir Bobby's NUFC direct. That's what we need and the next England manager needs to be chosen very carefully on that basis as someone who can pick the right players and play a system that said players know and can play and can play well. Me, I'd try and tempt Sir Alex Ferguson who I think could well retire his post at Man Utd should he win the Premier League and Champions League. Although he would probably want to make it 6 European Cup's to Liverpool's 5. Couldn't agree more with both posts. England managers recently have been all talk and no balls. Pick the players in-form, in their right positions and play to their strengths. Too many have picked based on reputation, have tinkered and twisted to fit those players in (Lampard/Gerrard) and have tried to play like other international teams. The Premier League is different, the English playing style is different. It's about time we adopted a fresh and innovative system than try to be like everyone else (and fail miserably at it). Thats the differance betwean us and the top sides like, imagine Brazilians saying "We need to play more like Spain (and Italy before them)", it just doesn't happen, infact it's the exact opposite, Dunga go bollocked for not playing the 'Brazilian way'. We cannot expect to win a major competition any time soon, as we just havn't got the quality that other nations have, but we stand a much better chance of doing so if we cut out this whole bollocks of looking at other teams succeses and compairing them to our failings. Agreed. I think there's sometimes too much fashion following when it comes to tactics. Back in the mid nineties loads of teams were playing 3-5-2 and to not do so was deemed unadvanced. Even KK tried it on a handful of occassions to disasterous effect. Whether we like it or not England have got a potential powerhouse of a number 9 in Carroll and should be looking to employ two effective wide men who can hit the byeline and supply quality into the box. Play to our strengths rather than cow-towing to slot in what other countries are doing. Adam Johnson for me, should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. The kid is quality and needs to be a first teamer ahead of so-so dross like SWP or Ashley Young. Yep. I'd have two wingers and Carroll up top. I don't particularly rate the lad as an amazing footballer but at this level for the way we need to play or rather should play, I'd have him ahead of the infinetly better footballer that is Rooney. I cannot remember in my lifetime as a footy fan England playing the way an England side should play. Ironically and to his credit I thought Glenn Hoddle got us closest to playing a technical way if you like just like the Italians or Germans and other nations if not in the way we lined up but the way we tried to move the ball, keep possession and attack and nulify the opposition. I remember we did an Italy on Italy in Rome, drawing 0-0. And speaking of Hoddle, he made the most insightful comment I've ever heard uttered regarding England, our players and our inability to play like the Europeans or other world teams. He said until we stop playing in straight lines we'll always get outplayed at the highest level if not out fought and I know exactly what he means and where it all stems from - kids' football. Our kids are told where to play and usually only ever play one or two positions from childhood right through to their teens and even adulthood. In Holland for example there isn't any emphasis on positional play until players are 16 and even then they get taught to play in a number of positions. That doesn't happen in England or if it does not enough and only recently. As a result when our kids who are good enough make it all the way into the senior England side they play in positions and rarely stray from that restricted type of role within the team format, be it 4-4-2, 3-5-2 or whatever. As a result when England move forward they do so in straight lines, likewise when we defend. And its too easy for the opposition. Watch Brazil or Spain, how they move the ball and play the ball, watch how their left-back will pop up on the right-flank or do a one-two with the striker while in a deep lying forward postion. Watch how they move the ball about in triangles, switch play, forwards through the middle, in circles and patterns. I remember Andy Gray doing analysis on an England performance and his diagram showed where England played the ball most and it was directly forwards in a straight line, directly backwards in a straight line and directly sideways in a straight line, yet the opposition (I think it could have been Slovenia or some random team like that) were working the ball all over the place at different angles. England's pattern of play looked like an arrow pointing here and there where as the opposition's pattern of play was like a spirograph. Anyway that's an issue for the future and the development side of our game. Right now we need a manager who will pick 11 players to play with joy, fill them full of confidence and in their right positions with the freedom to express themselves. We actually have the players. They are not as good as Messi or Ronaldo or Xavi but they are not f***ing Scotland or Algeria or somone. They are Premier League class players, some of them top level European players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 KK's always took criticism to heart and it seemingly takes him a long time to forgive and forget. Unfortunately to be a football manager you need a very thick skin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It was interesting when England played Wales a month or two back, they flew out of the blocks at them and played, if you like, Premiership-style, high tempo, which they never do against foreign sides, preferring to try and match them at their own game, whereas Wales' game is the same as ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It was interesting when England played Wales a month or two back, they flew out of the blocks at them and played, if you like, Premiership-style, high tempo, which they never do against foreign sides, preferring to try and match them at their own game, whereas Wales' game is the same as ours. And although it was Wales and they were s***, we actually looked pretty decent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The absence of that wanker Gerrard helped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It sickens me knowing a man like KK who I have huge respect for and indeed love (I don't care how corny that sounds, I love the man) is bitter and twisted about a game he gave so much to and a game that badly needs people like him if it is to return to the game it was once - a peoples game. The fans' game. Now its a game of money, agents, spoiled brats with zero loyalty and big business. Oh and contemptable c***s who couldn't blow a football up with a pump never mind kick one - c***s like Ashley who know f*** all. agreed. however, i think he needs to get over it, and what happened to him at newcastle. i think he's still angry at ashley and co (and who wouldn't be after dealing with those cretins?) but it only harms himself if he keeps that attitude. he's always been one of the most positive and charismatic people in the game and it would be sad to see him still disillusioned when he should be of football's champions. I don't think he'll ever get over it just like I don't think we as fans ever will, not fully anyway. He took a pretty big hit financially and character wise when he resigned. He may have won a 2m settlement but he was being paid 3.5m a year and had a 3 and a half year contract. I also believe he believed he could achieve something here and finish the job he started if you like and get closure on losing out on the title and failing with England. I've read everything there is to read on KK, books written in the 70s and the biggest picture all those books paint of KK is someone who cannot deal with criticism, be it criticism for a poor result, a poor performance, a poor decision or a poor buy, he simply cannot deal with not being right all the time or being loved and admired by everyone. I don't know why he's like that but that's the person he is. He cannot handle failure either and that's why he'll always be bitter regarding his time as England manager which was a failure and KK has failed a few times as a manager too. He failed to win a title that he should have won. That's not me saying he failed per se as Newcastle manager, bloody hell he massively overachieved and in many ways did far more and achieved far more that no solitary piece of silverware could replicate. As a footballer he won the lot and was at one time regarded as the best in Europe and arguably was one of the world's best players at the time who any team would have had in their side. Everything he did was a success. As a player you can micro manage your life to success though if you have the ability. As a manager you can only control so much and your fate rests in the hands of many. I think that's why KK couldn't hack England, couldn't hack the PLC, couldn't hack medicroty at Man City and couldn't hack being just the coach in his second spell here as manager. I'll forver remember him as the man who inspired my love of NUFC and football though. Just look at this thread, his mere name has inspired me to make more posts in one day than I make a week probably. I love the man me and everything he stands for as a man and as a footy person. He shouldn't be regarded in in any other light than a bright one for what he's given the game, achieved and brought to so many millions the world over. It saddens me to see him hunched over a table talking about footy on some subscription chanel in such obvious bitter and negative tones when as a manager and man he stands above most. I hope he comes back into management and does what he does best, getting players performing and exciting fans. In an ideal world it would be back here, with millions to spend and the full backing of all. Sadly that boat has well and truly sailed if not sank. If only. Fuck you Mike Ashley /still bitter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Interesting stuff HTT, some good posts in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Drove past KK's place yesterday. I shall give him a knock next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Interesting stuff HTT, some good posts in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Keegan is the main reason I love football, everything about this man is spot on; his principles, the way he gets teams playing but more than anything else, his honesty which comes before anything else. Keegan just doesn't seem to be able to lie, either to himself or the fans. I, like many others, still think he could manage at the highest level and be a great success but it's whether his terms will be met and that's not something I can see happening. Whenever I listen to any footage of him or Bobby it always hits me emotionally because you couldn't find two people who care more about the others around them. I'll always trust what Keegan has to say over almost anyone else because of his conviction and I hope that in spite of his evident bitterness he is able to look at Newcastle United and still feel like it's a part of himself. One final note. These days I find that almost anyone I talk to thinks of Keegan as a joker who didn't know how to manage a team tactically and was a quitter but while I think he walked too easily at times, few people credit him like he deserves. If you want to discredit his performances at club level by telling me he had more investment than most managers then that's a completely invalid argument because most managers wouldn't be able to get a chairman to back them like he did. It's not just about the fact he was one of the most positive, heartfelt guys around, it was the fact that he injected that into everyone he met in the same way Bobby did. There's so few managers who can pull that off and I don't see where the next one's coming from for NUFC ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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