jdckelly Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. Shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that on the bright side encouraged by his sides away win to west ham without a striker Rogers may decide that strikers are outdated and not want to sign Ba because he doesn't meet with his views on how to play football the "Brendan Rogers Way™" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***. Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves. He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Ba is not the person who picks the team, amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***. Massive agenda against the guy. He's a poacher. Poachers don't score without chances being created and we create the square root of fuck all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cissé would score a shitload for many other teams in the PL this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Ba is not the person who picks the team, amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. It's partially Pardew's fault, more than likely partially Ba's fauly but mostly the owner's fault. I want Ba on the left and want Pardew to do it, but I can't help but feel the man's between a rock and a hard place and can understand him trying to placate Demba: the last time we were this reliant on a striker he was sold in the January window without any replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's partially Pardew's fault, more than likely partially Ba's fauly but mostly the owner's fault. I want Ba on the left and want Pardew to do it, but I can't help but feel the man's between a rock and a hard place and can understand him trying to placate Demba: the last time we were this reliant on a striker he was sold in the January window without any replacement. Ba should not be allowed to dictate who plays where and he is doing that indirectly, the situation should be managed much better than it is and it's one of the reasons why we are where we are. Ba playing left of a front 3 is partially why we finished so high up the league last season and playing him centrally this season is part of the reason for us sitting 14th this morning. Nobody wants Ba to stay at Newcastle more than I do, not at any cost to the team though as no player is more important than the good of the team. We've clearly played a formation for much of the season so far which doesn't suit most of our players, the reason for that is either because Ba doesn't want to play left of a front 3 or the manager doesn't want him to, either way, only one person is to blame for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You know fine well I agree with basically all apart from the last line. You simply can't apportion all blame to Pardew - especially when you don't know what's been communicated between the pair of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You know fine well I agree with basically all apart from the last line. You simply can't apportion all blame to Pardew - especially when you don't know what's been communicated between the pair of them. Pardew is the manager, how can anybody else be to blame for Pardew (the manager) picking Ba in a formation that doesn't suit us as a team? I understand that we don't know what is said between the manager and player and don't really need to as we can judge the situation on what we actually see. I can understand why he wants to keep Ba happy but not at the expense of the team and that is what is actually happening. Either Ba doesn't want to play left of a front 3 or Pardew doesn't want him to. Only 1 person picks the team and only 1 person is to blame for it unless Pardew is being told what to do by somebody above him which we have no proof of so I'll stick to what we do know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No wonder manager got blamed for everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No wonder manager got blamed for everything. Regarding Ba or who? If so, who else? Tea lady? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You know fine well I agree with basically all apart from the last line. You simply can't apportion all blame to Pardew - especially when you don't know what's been communicated between the pair of them. Pardew is the manager, how can anybody else be to blame for Pardew (the manager) picking Ba in a formation that doesn't suit us as a team? I understand that we don't know what is said between the manager and player and don't really need to as we can judge the situation on what we actually see. I can understand why he wants to keep Ba happy but not at the expense of the team and that is what is actually happening. Either Ba doesn't want to play left of a front 3 or Pardew doesn't want him to. Only 1 person picks the team and only 1 person is to blame for it unless Pardew is being told what to do by somebody above him which we have no proof of so I'll stick to what we do know. We don't know a thing about what the managers are told and haven't since the club was bought by that dreadful b******. What we do know is what's happened in the past. Big players - our most important player, even - have been sold with Championship crap like Ameobi and Lovenkrands expected to fill the void like folded-up dirty napkins under a table leg. You can understand the manager wanting to try to do everything he possibly can to keep the likes of Ba happy on a personal level, especially when the striking options beyond the starting Xl are laughably even more limited after a 5th place finish than when we'd just been promoted. Let's say Ba is refusing to play out wide, Pardew puts him out there and he demands to be sold in Jan. January comes and he leaves the club, leaving us with an out of form Cisse as the only proven goalscorer in the entire sodding squad. We'd sink like a stone and you'd be there demanding Pardew gets sacked with every predictable, non-scoring defeat. Pardew's made mistakes this season and personally I'm not at all sure he's cable of rectifying them in the long-term, but one thing is for sure: he just can't win with people like you. Disguise it all you want, but you're comfortable pointing all the blame in his direction when it's blatantly obvious he's only a symptom of a bigger problem, struggling against his master to make something out of nothing, much like Hughton was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 To make something out of nothing? I think we all agree that he hasn't been backed this summer with new arrivals, but that's only one of the problems. We've been shit all season, even before all the injuries, so i wouldn't say he's had to make "something out of nothing" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 What's Pardew's net spend since taking over a recently promoted club sitting 12th in the league? His tactics may be dreadful, but they don't tell half the story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Around £0 i would guess, probably more income than outlays i'd think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here. Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 We don't know a thing about what the managers are told and haven't since the club was bought by that dreadful b******. What we do know is what's happened in the past. Big players - our most important player, even - have been sold with Championship crap like Ameobi and Lovenkrands expected to fill the void like folded-up dirty napkins under a table leg. You can understand the manager wanting to try to do everything he possibly can to keep the likes of Ba happy on a personal level, especially when the striking options beyond the starting Xl are laughably even more limited after a 5th place finish than when we'd just been promoted. Let's say Ba is refusing to play out wide, Pardew puts him out there and he demands to be sold in Jan. January comes and he leaves the club, leaving us with an out of form Cisse as the only proven goalscorer in the entire sodding squad. We'd sink like a stone and you'd be there demanding Pardew gets sacked with every predictable, non-scoring defeat. Pardew's made mistakes this season and personally I'm not at all sure he's cable of rectifying them in the long-term, but one thing is for sure: he just can't win with people like you. Disguise it all you want, but you're comfortable pointing all the blame in his direction when it's blatantly obvious he's only a symptom of a bigger problem, struggling against his master to make something out of nothing, much like Hughton was. Are our forwards really weaker? That’s debatable considering Best hasn’t played a competitive game since he left us because unsurprisingly, he’s injured. We do need more up front but losing Best isn’t the end of the world and with hindsight, was a good move even though we should have replaced him. Pardew isn’t faultless with that though as he was quite happy going into the season with what we’ve got and claiming that we were good enough to challenge for the Champions League, or words to that effect. You're using a hypothetical scenario against an actual situation. The manager shouldn’t do everything possible to keep Ba happy if it’s to the detriment of the team. Ba is refusing to sign a new contract so could be away in January anyway, what are we then left with? I’ll tell you what we’ll be left with. We’ll be left with a team that is struggling around the bottom of the league and that will be partly due to allowing a player to dictate where he does or doesn’t play, or because the manager doesn't want to play him in that position. People like me have been supporting the club for decades, and I’ve been through 4 relegations, the first one I can remember was the season after we’d finished 5th and we were relegated because we gave the wrong manager too long to try and put something right that he was incapable of doing. I’ve been quite happy to apportion some of the blame away from Pardew but you can’t get away from him being the manager of a team which is massively underperforming. If you want to blame others for that then fine, you’re wrong. Our manager is a part of the recruitment process which has partially failed us. Our manager is responsible for training the players. Our manager is responsible for motivating the players. Our manager is responsible for picking the team. Our manager is responsible for choosing the tactics for each and every game. Our manager is responsible for choosing the formation for each game. Have I missed anything out or failed to mention who else is responsible for anything mentioned above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here. Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them. You know what that type of manager would do, he'd attack and get the most out of his assets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You failed to mention how you'd react as a fan to the hypothetical scenario I presented you with. Nor have you said what you'd do in Pardew's position should our worst fears about Ba's self-preserving stipulations be a reality - which they are in all likelyhood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here. Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them. You know what that type of manager would do, he'd attack and get the most out of his assets. Which Pardew did last season, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 i sincerely suggest u to support another team, Mick. I can't see any manager can work out well enough for you under Ashley, and I can't see Ashley selling the club in the short term. Probably what you should do is to restart the Ashley out campaign and start riot outside the stadium. Thata probably helps to get what u want,more likely then hoping Ashley to get the Right man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Facepalm! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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