Demba Ba (now retired)

[Skeletor]

Seems obvious to me that the so-called release clause isn't as simple as someone just offering £7m and taking him.

 

I'd guess only Champions League teams can trigger it. I guess Ba wasn't expecting us to do as well as we did when the clause was put in the contract.

[Ishmael]

Probably a Neil Taylor-esc clause.

[Guest Archie]

Carroll is 4 years younger, better in the air, british and without timebomb knees.

I too prefer Ba but lets not pretend its such a nobrainer as someone makes out.

I think Carroll would be back to his old unplayable self in notime if he came home.

[Shak]

I don't think we'd ever get rid of Ba for Carroll btw. Carroll is the contingency in case Ba goes.

 

I'd hope not.

 

We need to be signing another striker, even if Ba stays. We only have three now and two of them could be off for a month in January, if Ba goes we need to bring in two.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Ba is ten times the player Carroll is.

 

If he was someone would have bought him for £7m.

 

Who needs a striker in this league apart from Spurs that are better than us? it's pretty obvious why no one has come in for him, because club's above us don't need a striker.

 

But Carroll is not even close to Ba, even Carroll at his best isn't close.

[JH]

I don't think we'd ever get rid of Ba for Carroll btw. Carroll is the contingency in case Ba goes.

 

I'd hope not.

 

We need to be signing another striker, even if Ba stays. We only have three now and two of them could be off for a month in January, if Ba goes we need to bring in two.

 

That's why Vuckic and SAMeobi have been getting so much playing time this pre-season IMO. [/cheap]

[Shak]

Ba is ten times the player Carroll is.

 

If he was someone would have bought him for £7m.

 

Who needs a striker in this league apart from Spurs that are better than us? it's pretty obvious why no one has come in for him, because club's above us don't need a striker.

 

But Carroll is not even close to Ba, even Carroll at his best isn't close.

 

Massive pile of rubbish.

 

In terms of technique and ball playing ability, Ba is a better player than Carroll yes. But by the same token Carroll can do things that Ba can't do, he's vastly more powerful and better in the air.

 

I can see why people don't want Carroll back, but this need some people seem to have to act like he's just a big powerful donkey who can't play football at all is ridiculous.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Ba is ten times the player Carroll is.

 

If he was someone would have bought him for £7m.

 

Who needs a striker in this league apart from Spurs that are better than us? it's pretty obvious why no one has come in for him, because club's above us don't need a striker.

 

But Carroll is not even close to Ba, even Carroll at his best isn't close.

 

Massive pile of rubbish.

 

In terms of technique and ball playing ability, Ba is a better player than Carroll yes. But by the same token Carroll can do things that Ba can't do, he's vastly more powerful and better in the air.

 

I can see why people don't want Carroll back, but this need some people seem to have to act like he's just a big powerful donkey who can't play football at all is ridiculous.

 

Ah the usual take my post and reverse my words to the complete other end of the spectrum i come across on here

 

I never said Carroll is a donkey who cant play football, but Ba is much better.

 

Because Ba is much better doesnt mean Carroll is f*cking useless in the technical terms just i rate Ba a lot higher in this regard.

 

I actually think he's a better finisher too for that matter.

[Cajun]

Ba is ten times the player Carroll is.

 

If he was someone would have bought him for £7m.

 

Probably people are still thinking about his knee-issues. Also, it's probably a plus for us now that he didn't have a great 2nd half of the season.

 

Still though, £7m for a player ten times better than £35m Andy Carroll, even at a conservative estimate of £10m for Carroll, Ba is the worlds most expensive player.

 

We wouldn't get £40m for Cabaye but he is at least twice the player Henderson is

 

Saying Ba is 10 times the player Carroll is was going over the top but imo he is clearly better.

[Guest BooBoo]

Spot on Shakeel.

[Shak]

Wasn't entirely aimed at you Mole, there have been plenty of similar posts from people who seem to think Carroll isn't even in the same league as Ba, which is nonsense IMO.

 

Carroll at his best was a player that teams (not just Liverpool btw, Spurs also bid over 20m) were willing to pay tremendous amounts of money for. He's decent technically and is one of the most physically dominant centre forwards I've ever seen play football. Having an outlet like that up top is nothing to be sneezed at. Chelsea won a lot of trophies with a gameplan that involved plenty of long balls towards Drogba, when you have a player that wins it that often why wouldn't you?

 

If we had all three of them at the club my money would be on Carroll and Cisse emerging as the preferred partnership tbh.

[Guest Archie]

Ba doesnt really offer anything Cisse doesnt,  Carroll does.

 

For all the stick Carroll gets, Daniel Levy sanctioned a 25 million pound ( or thereabouts) offer. Clearly the Mike Ashley of London saw something in him.

 

Comparisons to Drogba is taking it a bit too far, but with Andy firing on all cylinders it really doesnt matter if you stick 2 or even 3 defenders on him in the box. He will get to that ball.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Wasn't entirely aimed at you Mole, there have been plenty of similar posts from people who seem to think Carroll isn't even in the same league as Ba, which is nonsense IMO.

 

Carroll at his best was a player that teams (not just Liverpool btw, Spurs also bid over 20m) were willing to pay tremendous amounts of money for. He's decent technically and is one of the most physically dominant centre forwards I've ever seen play football. Having an outlet like that up top is nothing to be sneezed at. Chelsea won a lot of trophies with a gameplan that involved plenty of long balls towards Drogba, when you have a player that wins it that often why wouldn't you?

 

If we had all three of them at the club my money would be on Carroll and Cisse emerging as the preferred partnership tbh.

 

Yeah it's fine, just the whole my posts words getting twisted to the opposite end of what i'm saying so i have to explain myself 5 times over is a bit annoying.

 

For it's worth i agree with what you say, my point was Ba is a much better overall footballer while Carroll is better at holding the ball up and better in the air.

 

I have no problem with Carroll's ability, he clearly has the ability if used right. I have said before that Carroll's technique isn't an issue its fine for someone his size and i don't think hoof ball would reign supreme if we signed him.

 

My issue for Carroll's signing is and always been financial and tactical, not for ability reasons.

 

Lastly there's a lot of people who say people have forgot how good Carroll was before he left for Liverpool, but on that same token i feel people have forgot how good Ba was before Cisse joined.

[ponsaelius]

Daniel Levy also sanctioned £15 million for David Bentley.

[Guest Archie]

The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player.

 

In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh...

[Yorkie]

Daniel Levy also sanctioned £15 million for David Bentley.

 

What the hell happened there? I know he got a bad injury last season, but Spurs had already shipped him out on loan by then. That was one rapid decline.

[Jack Flash]

The sheer variety of the goals we've seen from Ba makes him the better striker. Him and Cisse can score in the blink of an eye and that's near impossible to defend against. Putting Carroll up front could make us too predictable.

[Shak]

Assumed Bentley just got carried away with the London lifestyle?

[Guest BooBoo]

One season wonder. Didn't help that Bentley was an enormous bell end who fancied himself as the next Beckham.

[Cajun]

The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player.

 

In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh...

 

As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times.

[Guest Archie]

The sheer variety of the goals we've seen from Ba makes him the better striker. Him and Cisse can score in the blink of an eye and that's near impossible to defend against. Putting Carroll up front could make us too predictable.

 

Variety dried up after Cisse arrived though, because Ba no longer find himself in those positions. Also, predictability means little if you cant do anything about it.

Tell a centreback there is a cross coming and ask him to clear it on his head. Oh and btw you have to fight Andy Carroll for that one.

 

Kevin Nolan was of the opinion there isnt a player in the Prem better than him in the air. Nice accolade even from a mate.

[Guest Archie]

The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player.

 

In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh...

 

As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times.

 

I agree re: Marveaux, it was just an example.  Ba is still a decent player out wide but lets be honest, it wasnt just a handful of games. It was month after month without goals, poor games and playing in a position where he looks breathless. Ba is a striker, a finisher. He doesnt have the legs to play in a wide position.

[Shak]

The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player.

 

In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh...

 

As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times.

 

Agree with that, the problem though seems to be that Ba doesn't want to play out wide, Pardew has pretty much said as much. That's a concern for me like.

 

Last night Ba played almost in the hole at times, wonder if that's the plan?

 

          Cabaye    Tiote

 

Ben Arfa.        Ba.          Marveaux

 

                    Cisse

 

With Jonas able to play out left or in CM.

[Guest BooBoo]

I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue.

[BrettNUFC]

I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue.

 

I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well.