Demba Ba (now retired)

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Cisse is awful out wide the fact we are even discussing it is ridiculous

 

If Cisse is going to be deployed out wide you might as well not play him at all, complete waste of a footballer and a great footballer at that.

 

Exactly.

 

It also doesn't really matter how many goals Ba has scored, it's impossible to compare that against how many he might have scored on the left, or how many the team would have got with a better setup in general.

[Dinho lad]

Get more aggressive, Demba for fuck sake.

[Jack Flash]

It also doesn't really matter how many goals Ba has scored, it's impossible to compare that against how many he might have scored on the left, or how many the team would have got with a better setup in general.

 

It matters more than the goals other people might have scored

 

What if we'd had Ba on the wing again all season and Cisse still wasn't pulling his weight? "What if's" don't matter.

[The College Dropout]

You can actually make both arguments with that fact. We were a far bigger threat when he wasn't scoring.

 

When we where winning? When we kept clean sheets? Steven Taylor didn't play during our best period, is Williamson better than him too?

 

Playing alongside Cisse doesn't suit Ba much either but he's still managed to score goals. If any should be dropped or moved wide it should be Cisse.

 

I haven't seen ANYTHING from Cisse this season that suggests he should play up top by himself. We where 4-4-2 several times at the end of last season when he was on fire. Including the debut goal and the Chelsea match.

Cisse hasn't shown anything to suggest he can play wide, playing him there would be strange.

 

Other than Ben Arfa, who will be on the other wing, Ba is the only competent player on our books who can play as a wide forward.

 

Aye, Cisse should be on the bench. His performances have been poor.

[Legacy]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

[The College Dropout]

It's not like we have been creating bucket loads of chances for Ba. The 4-4-2 the way we play it has both of them in prime positions to score. Only 1 does it regularly and it's Ba.

 

Cisse hasn't done anything this season to suggest he should be starting.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Of course we haven't seen anything from Cisse

 

He's a finisher who relies on service but instead we hoof to him expecting to him be Drogba 2.0 or play him on the wing

 

As a said before players can only perform as much as the system and style of play will allow them to.

 

Case in point: Messi best player in the world under Barca's system.... goes to World Cup under Maradona's awful tactics and looks average by comparison.

[The College Dropout]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

[Jack Flash]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

Like we're losing because Ba isn't being played on the wing ffs. Ba is making lemonade from lemons and it's keeping us up at present.

[The College Dropout]

Of course we haven't seen anything from Cisse

 

He's a finisher who relies on service but instead we hoof to him expecting to him be Drogba 2.0 or play him on the wing

 

As a said before players can only perform as much as the system and style of play will allow them to.

 

Case in point: Messi best player in the world under Barca's system.... goes to World Cup under Maradona's awful tactics and looks average by comparison.

 

Your comparing the best team in the world to a team coached by Diego Maradona. Apples and Oranges mate.

 

He's more or less the EXACT same type of player Ba is. Ba's not Drogba either but he's managed to BE A GOALSCORER this season. Ba's a finisher and he's finished chances, Cisse hasn't. Ba hasn't had great service either but he's scored goals. He's scored from the scraps we've given him and he'll score as long he's played centrally in any system atm. I can't say the same for Cisse.

 

I'll repeat. Cisse was scoring freely in a 4-4-2 last season. I can think of 3 goals off the top of my head. His confidence is gone and that will only return once he starts putting a few away.

[taxfree]

Get this cunt out on the wing.

[The College Dropout]

People have this notion that Pardew plays a 4-4-2 for Ba. No, one of the reasons he plays a 4-4-2 is that he wants both his goalscorers in goalscoring positions at all times.

 

Pardew is wrong for that because it's not working. If one of the strikers should be sacrificed it should be Cisse. And by sacrificed I mean the bench. Ba looks knackered by 60 minutes anyway so Cisse would have his opportunities. If Maybe he's scoring, then we can talk about moving Ba wide.

[Ronaldo]

Get this c*** out on the wing.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

People have this notion that Pardew plays a 4-4-2 for Ba. No, one of the reasons he plays a 4-4-2 is that he wants both his goalscorers in goalscoring positions at all times.

 

Pardew is wrong for that because it's not working. If one of the strikers should be sacrificed it should be Cisse. And by sacrificed I mean the bench. Ba looks knackered by 60 minutes anyway so Cisse would have his opportunities. If Maybe he's scoring, then we can talk about moving Ba wide.

 

The problem is that if we're playing 4-4-2 we don't have any other striking options. And if we play 4-3-3 then only Ba can function out wide, so it answers itself again.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Of course we haven't seen anything from Cisse

 

He's a finisher who relies on service but instead we hoof to him expecting to him be Drogba 2.0 or play him on the wing

 

As a said before players can only perform as much as the system and style of play will allow them to.

 

Case in point: Messi best player in the world under Barca's system.... goes to World Cup under Maradona's awful tactics and looks average by comparison.

 

Your comparing the best team in the world to a team coached by Diego Maradona. Apples and Oranges mate.

 

He's more or less the EXACT same type of player Ba is. Ba's not Drogba either but he's managed to BE A GOALSCORER this season. Ba's a finisher and he's finished chances, Cisse hasn't. Ba hasn't had great service either but he's scored goals. He's scored from the scraps we've given him and he'll score as long he's played centrally in any system atm. I can't say the same for Cisse.

 

I'll repeat. Cisse was scoring freely in a 4-4-2 last season. I can think of 3 goals off the top of my head. His confidence is gone and that will only return once he starts putting a few away.

 

Ba is more suited to long ball and 4-4-2 than Cisse is and it's not even close.....

 

Cisse never scored freely in 4-4-2 last season either....

 

Cisse has had no service at all this season......

 

Also you talk about his confidence.... that's hardly going to improve being shafted out till the wing, williamson flinging the ball to his head expecting him to outmuscle giant CB's and being subbed off constantly....

[Wullie]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

[High Five o]

Dont talk about Cisse in the first half season with any relevance to formations guys.

He scored from everywhere, anytime, 100% of the time.

It was shit crazy. no one could expect it to continue.

 

(I did (hoped)  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Dont talk about Cisse in the first half season with any relevance to formations guys.

He scored from everywhere, anytime, 100% of the time.

It was s*** crazy. no one could expect it to continue.

 

(I did (hoped)  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really most of the goals came in 4-3-3 ( the normal goals anyway )

[madras]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

tbf he scored from around the pen spot in both games.

[madras]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why do we have to put one on the wing ? it sounds like netball or american football with designated positions. is there any reason why we can't play with ba, cisse and ben arfa up front and allowed to roam and play off and with each other ? does van persie stay central all game ? did henri ? did cabaye win a double playing rightish in a middle 3 ? do we get the best from ben arfa sticking him out wide in a middle 4 ?

 

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

[Mole_Toonfan]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

 

Because Pardew is manager.

[Jack Flash]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why do we have to put one on the wing ? it sounds like netball or american football with designated positions. is there any reason why we can't play with ba, cisse and ben arfa up front and allowed to roam and play off and with each other ? does van persie stay central all game ? did henri ? did cabaye win a double playing rightish in a middle 3 ? do we get the best from ben arfa sticking him out wide in a middle 4 ?

 

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

 

It's become a cliché to think putting Ba on the wing will immediately improve results and performances. It won't because it's not that simple.

[Wullie]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

tbf he scored from around the pen spot in both games.

 

He scored two bang on the edge of the area, not from around the penalty spot.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Ba dosnt really react to either of Cisses goals. I think he is genuinely jealous that his 'mate' is getting all the attention

 

I genuinely think, regardless of how well he is playing, that he is p*ssed off about playing on the left

 

I hope i am wrong, but if he starts being all sulky and thinking about individual glory he will go right down in my estimations.

Honestly think people make things up just to stir s*** at times.

 

 

Ba was one of the first to congratulate Cisse.

 

That being said, i really hope Ba gets a goal soon, it will do him a very good.

 

Hope im wrong, but watch the highlights

 

I hope im reading too much into it

 

Watch this space

 

BTW, if Pardew reverts back to 4-4-2 because of this he wants shooting!

 

Without trying to come across as I told you so(which I know some of you will jump on) I called this 9 months ago and Pardew has given in

 

I think Pardew is scared stiff to move Ba for fear of him activating his clause because he is unhappy. Ba maybe scoring but he is detracting from the team as a whole.

 

As long as we get a suitable replacement ie someone who can play wide or thought the middle (Remy) I would be too disappointed to see him fuck off

[Chris_R]

I think its obvious that Pardew is scared of Ba upping and leaving. Problem is, who's going to stay if we continue playing 4-4-2 and getting no results and playing utterly shite? Even if we scrape 17th doing that and Ba stays, I assure you that Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Tiote, Coloccini and Cisse won't exactly be chuffed to bits to stay here another year.

 

I'd rather keep the majority happy, which we'll only do by winning games. And we simply do not have the personnel to win games consistently and play well under a 4-4-2. Also, there's no way in hell Ben Arfa is a right-winger in a 4-4-2, he's half the player he was last season playing wide right in a 4-3-3.

 

Therefore we MUST go 4-3-3. That means Cisse plays centrally, and Ba plays on the left. If he leaves, he leaves. Shit happens, replace him and move on.