Hughesy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 His situation needs to be sorted one way or another. If we can broker a deal that he'll sign then fantastic. If he and his many agents want silly money he needs to be moved on so every fucker can move on from this "will he won't he" scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 His situation needs to be sorted one way or another. If we can broker a deal that he'll sign then fantastic. If he and his many agents want silly money he needs to be moved on so every fucker can move on from this "will he won't he" scenario. yep- but its a recurring theme every season, may as well be his turn, it will be somebody else next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Indeed. I'll put some illustrative numbers on it: Ba central: 10/10 Cisse central: 9/10 Ba wide: 7/10 Cisse wide: 2/10 Saying we must play Ba centrally because that's his best position or because he's out best striker is crazy really, you can't set a team up like that. You push Cisse wide, and have a combined rating of 12/20. Play Cisse central and Ba wide and you have 16/20 which improves the team massively. They're my numbers of course, and everyone else's opinion might be different, but I imagine it's still the same outcome. The best thing for the TEAM is Ba wide. The only beneficiary of Demba Ba playing centrally is Demba Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Surely you must have noticed by now that things aren't going to change while Pardew is here? Ba will be in the middle, Cisse will be on the right and our only hope of having a slightly passable season is if Ba keeps nicking us a goal. Hope for or demand a change all you want but it's not happening. We're stuck with it until he gets the boot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Silly numbers them, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Silly numbers them, like. Well you've convinced me there with your detailed analysis and counter arguments. Thanks for that. Irrelevant anyway as like I said it's just an opinion to demonstrate a point. I can't see that it matters what numbers are there, whether Cisse should be a 9 or an 8 as a centre forward or whatever daft argument anyone wants to wave about. I've not benchmarked the numbers against anything, it's not like I spent 2 hours pouring over video evidence and reams of statistics to distill a player's career down to a single digit. It's based on gut feeling to show a point. Ba on the left and Cisse centrally as a combination is better for the team than Ba central and Cisse wide. That's the argument, not whether I've got the numbers above correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ba's not a 10/10 player centrally in any universe. Wouldn't say he's a 7 out wide either. And a 2 for Cisse? He's wasted out wide but looks productive compared to some of the crap we've had out there. Lovenkrands etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Again for clarity: it's just an opinion to demonstrate a point... I've not benchmarked the numbers against anything But for the record, Ba is 10/10 centrally in our universe. It's him, Cisse, Shola, Xisco or Ranger. Same goes for rating him out wide. His competition is Jonas, Obertan, Ferguson or HBA. No point rating him against Lionel Messi when he's not available for selection for us on Saturday. Anyway, it's an opinion, it was to demonstrate a point, it doesn't matter what the numbers are, arguing over whether they're right is the wrong argument as the only point I was making was that the team is better with Ba on the left rather than Cisse out wide. I said as much in the first post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 It's the manager's job to get the best out of the players he has available. At this moment, that includes a striker whose conversation rate since he came to this country is only bettered by Man United's £50m strikeforce. And some people want to sell him. It's utterly unbelievable. Doesn't talk that much does he Amended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. Shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Liverpool are prone to strange decisions like that on the bright side encouraged by his sides away win to west ham without a striker Rogers may decide that strikers are outdated and not want to sign Ba because he doesn't meet with his views on how to play football the "Brendan Rogers Way™" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***. Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves. He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Ba is not the person who picks the team, amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***. Massive agenda against the guy. He's a poacher. Poachers don't score without chances being created and we create the square root of fuck all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cissé would score a shitload for many other teams in the PL this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Ba is not the person who picks the team, amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. It's partially Pardew's fault, more than likely partially Ba's fauly but mostly the owner's fault. I want Ba on the left and want Pardew to do it, but I can't help but feel the man's between a rock and a hard place and can understand him trying to placate Demba: the last time we were this reliant on a striker he was sold in the January window without any replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's partially Pardew's fault, more than likely partially Ba's fauly but mostly the owner's fault. I want Ba on the left and want Pardew to do it, but I can't help but feel the man's between a rock and a hard place and can understand him trying to placate Demba: the last time we were this reliant on a striker he was sold in the January window without any replacement. Ba should not be allowed to dictate who plays where and he is doing that indirectly, the situation should be managed much better than it is and it's one of the reasons why we are where we are. Ba playing left of a front 3 is partially why we finished so high up the league last season and playing him centrally this season is part of the reason for us sitting 14th this morning. Nobody wants Ba to stay at Newcastle more than I do, not at any cost to the team though as no player is more important than the good of the team. We've clearly played a formation for much of the season so far which doesn't suit most of our players, the reason for that is either because Ba doesn't want to play left of a front 3 or the manager doesn't want him to, either way, only one person is to blame for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You know fine well I agree with basically all apart from the last line. You simply can't apportion all blame to Pardew - especially when you don't know what's been communicated between the pair of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 You know fine well I agree with basically all apart from the last line. You simply can't apportion all blame to Pardew - especially when you don't know what's been communicated between the pair of them. Pardew is the manager, how can anybody else be to blame for Pardew (the manager) picking Ba in a formation that doesn't suit us as a team? I understand that we don't know what is said between the manager and player and don't really need to as we can judge the situation on what we actually see. I can understand why he wants to keep Ba happy but not at the expense of the team and that is what is actually happening. Either Ba doesn't want to play left of a front 3 or Pardew doesn't want him to. Only 1 person picks the team and only 1 person is to blame for it unless Pardew is being told what to do by somebody above him which we have no proof of so I'll stick to what we do know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No wonder manager got blamed for everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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