Light in goals and thin in defence

[Rich]

We still need a striker and most likely a right back or central defender who's versatile. Injury to Ba and and simpson or one of the CBs and we're up the creek....

 

Best, Ameobi, Lovenkrands and Ranger are currently still here as backup to Ba, although I appreciate that can and probably will change. Having those lot, plus Kuqi didn't see us "up the creek" last season - but did mean we didn't finish as high as we probably should have done.

 

Agree on the defence issue, as currently we have 5 senior defenders who most on here consider to be good enough - Coloccini, Enrique, Williamson, S. Taylor and Simpson. Then there's Kadar and Ferguson who have shown promise, but who are unproven still and it moves onto Perch and R. Taylor after that, who aren't rated on here but may be considered adequate backup by Pardew (R. Taylor specifically, as it does appear Perch will be sold).

 

As usual, things aren't as depressing as the OP made out, but they've fallen a long way since we woke up to find Marveaux had signed. Still need a few more bodies, undoubtedly.

[Rich]

Should add that we are definitely in the market for another striker as well, and at least one more defender if we were serious about getting cover for Jose. Still need another defender on top of that, I reckon, at the least.

[TRon]

I'll say it again but the striker is really the key for me. I hope that we are really going all out to get a quality forward on board - and I'm not going to be precious about it, Erdinc or Shane Long would do me fine. They might not be top drawer but by our standards they are quality signings with very good potential. If we fail to get someone in by the time the window shuts that will speak volumes as far as I'm concerned as Pardew has gone on record as saying it's a priority. Zog coming here was never going to be anything more than an unlikely bonus so I will discount that, even if he ends up at Villa who I see as direct rivals.

[Guest Antec]

I'll say it again but the striker is really the key for me. I hope that we are really going all out to get a quality forward on board - and I'm not going to be precious about it, Erdinc or Shane Long would do me fine. They might not be top drawer but by our standards they are quality signings with very good potential. If we fail to get someone in by the time the window shuts that will speak volumes as far as I'm concerned as Pardew has gone on record as saying it's a priority. Zog coming here was never going to be anything more than an unlikely bonus so I will discount that, even if he ends up at Villa who I see as direct rivals.

 

If we're playing with only one up front I can't see where a second striker would fit in

[TRon]

I'll say it again but the striker is really the key for me. I hope that we are really going all out to get a quality forward on board - and I'm not going to be precious about it, Erdinc or Shane Long would do me fine. They might not be top drawer but by our standards they are quality signings with very good potential. If we fail to get someone in by the time the window shuts that will speak volumes as far as I'm concerned as Pardew has gone on record as saying it's a priority. Zog coming here was never going to be anything more than an unlikely bonus so I will discount that, even if he ends up at Villa who I see as direct rivals.

 

If we're playing with only one up front I can't see where a second striker would fit in

 

As a genuine alternative to Ba if/when he's unavailable. I'm sure you'd rather have a better one than Best or Shola. Erdinc and Long could play off the striker in a front 3 as well in a wide role, not to mention we might want to play 4-2-2 in some games.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

Saying all our goals are gone because Carroll and Nolan have left is woefully simplistic.

 

Carroll is a blow, but it's reasonable to expect that without the immobile Nolan in the team we will be a much more rapid and fluid attacking force. And with a striker expected to arrive we'll be significantly better up front than we were post-Carroll.

 

TBH, Ba is probably a better finisher than Carroll as well, though obviously not necessarily a "better player". He has also been less injured than Carroll in recent times.

 

I'm not saying we'll suddenly tear everyone apart, but there are as many reasons to be optimistic as not IMO.

 

I didn't say all our goals are gone but a substantial threat has gone, Carroll  and Nolan did score consistently  over the last two seasons and that has not been entirely replaced.

Ba will be missing anyway for part of the season due to the African Nations cup and even without that we still need more up front than what we have got.

United have three experienced central defenders, one or two gone and we will struggle and we also have an unhappy left back and no adequate cover there either.

I really hope that the two new French midfielders adapt quickly and Ben Arfa lives up to the promises he showed.

But I don't see that this squad has strength in depth once the injuries come along - which they will for us as they do for all clubs.    

[Guest Mantis]

Saying all our goals are gone because Carroll and Nolan have left is woefully simplistic.

 

Carroll is a blow, but it's reasonable to expect that without the immobile Nolan in the team we will be a much more rapid and fluid attacking force. And with a striker expected to arrive we'll be significantly better up front than we were post-Carroll.

 

TBH, Ba is probably a better finisher than Carroll as well, though obviously not necessarily a "better player". He has also been less injured than Carroll in recent times.

 

I'm not saying we'll suddenly tear everyone apart, but there are as many reasons to be optimistic as not IMO.

 

I didn't say all our goals are gone but a substantial threat has gone, Carroll  and Nolan did score consistently  over the last two seasons and that has not been entirely replaced.

Ba will be missing anyway for part of the season due to the African Nations cup and even without that we still need more up front than what we have got.

United have three experienced central defenders, one or two gone and we will struggle and we also have an unhappy left back and no adequate cover there either.

I really hope that the two new French midfielders adapt quickly and Ben Arfa lives up to the promises he showed.

But I don't see that this squad has strength in depth once the injuries come along - which they will for us as they do for all clubs.   

 

in a nutshell

[Cajun]

Was going to start a new thread about where people think we are in terms of the squad but this one looks right.

 

I really don't think we are that bad off squad wise, we have:

 

Goalkeepers: Forster, Krul and Harper

 

Defence: Colocinni, Enrique, S Taylor, Williamson, Kadar, Simpson, Ferguson, Dummett*, Tavernier

 

Midfield: Barton, Tiote, Cabaye, Gosling, Guthrie, Abeid, Marveaux, Jonas

 

Forwards: Ba, Ben Arfa, Best, Vuckic, Ameobi, Ranger, Lovenkrands

 

Then we have Ryan Taylor who can come in and do a half defence job at right back or on the right wing if we are desperate.

 

The likes of Xisco, Routledge are gone no matter what.

 

So that's not that bad a squad is it? If Enrique goes as expected we will need to replace him with some quality. *Dummett I have included based solely on a comment someone who has seen him made, sure they said he was a much better left back than Ferguson and given his late call up to the first team I am interested to see how he gets on.

 

We need to sign a striker and I really think a quality centre back should be the next priority. If we got those two I really think we would be looking very healthy, obviously there would be times we would have to put faith in younger lads coming in and doing a job but isn't that the same at most clubs?

 

For arguments sake, we complete the deal for Erding and we take advantage of Birmingham's situation and sign Dann, I think we will have done very well. I know there is the argument of having funds to have done better but I think the squad looks significantly improved even if a part of that is just players coming back from injury.

[oldtype]

Add a striker and replace Enrique, and the squad's quite good for a team that's looking at anything from 7th~14th depending on dumb luck and injuries.

 

Obviously we haven't made the dramatic step up that a lot of us wanted this summer, but it's better than last year and certainly enough to give us a healthy dollop of false hope before reality comes back to bite us.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The early performances of Vuckic, Abeid and Gosling have certainly made me feel better. Get a striker in, an Enrique replacement and maybe a CB and I'll be happy. Even without the CB we'd probably be fine.

 

Always can do better, but it would be progress IMO.

[sportnet]

Didnt Kadar went on a loan to Holland

[UV]

All the arguments I've seen for the squad being better than last year rely heavily on all or most of the new players (plus Ben Arfa, Gosling & replacement LB) fitting in, adapting to the Prem, staying fit and generally living up to expectations of being good players and "better" than the ones they're replacing (Carroll, Nolan, Routledge, very probably Enrique + anyone else to leave), and enabling the team to play in a new style which is probably going to score less goals but spread them around more and win games by increasing possession stats .

 

That's a pretty big ask, and an unrealistic expectation IMO. That's nothing to do with the cost of the players, nor based on any kind of analysis of the players themselves, just simple expectation management based on years of experience of many (most?) new signings for one reason or another not living up to expectations. Some new players will obviously live up to or exceed expectations and be players you want in the first team every week, some will be okay and you'd be happy with them as squad players but would rather have better as first choice, and some will simply be either terrible, never get a chance to play or are sicknotes who are just a drain on the wage bill. Ask yourself when was the last time all (or even most) of our new signings turned out to be players you were happy to be regulars in the first team. Off the top of my head I'd probably say the percentages are something like 25%, 50%, 25%, so for every 4 new players, roughly 1 will be good, 2 will be meh, and 1 will be a Xisco/Gonzalez/Perch/Campbell. That's not a criticism of our club, it's the same everywhere, so why would this year be any different? It might be, but it's unlikely. That's not being negative, or writing players off before they've had a chance or any shit like that, it's just being realistic about the odds.

 

When you keep your best players from the previous year and replace half a dozen of the weaker squad members with new ones, you can be fairly happy that you've probably improved, because the couple of the new players that come good will displace the ones from last year who don't perform as well. However when you get rid of 3 of your best players from the previous year (I'm assuming Enrique will go), you're already starting on the back foot and need 3 of the new players to at least match their contribution just to stay still. That's is a criticism of our club. It's not impossible, but it's very unlikely to be the case that we'll have a better squad for this year than we did at the end of the last Summer window even if we do get another striker in IMO, and tbh that squad wasn't the strongest and probably over-performed as newly promoted teams do.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Not sure that logic works though UV, surely the chances of a player being a good signing depend on how good they are and have nothing at all to do with the number of good signings we've made in the past.

 

I accept there are some unknowns about our new players though, obviously.

[Yorkie]

It's just the law of averages; i don't think he's far wrong tbh.

[Quailman]

Lets just hope that these new players (inc. Ben Arfa and Gosling) live up to expectations then.

 

I really believe that our squad has improved in quality over this transfer window. Obviously this will be measured by results and that's fine, but I feel positive about our ambitions for this coming season. I think Carr has done wonders for this club and you can't honestly say that this current squad isn't far superior to our squads of the last 6-7 seasons! It has the potential of being a very good squad and especially with the possible addition of another quality striker and replacement left back.

 

Of course, when the issue of injuries arises, the first question asked is have we got adequate replacements at hand and I think the answer is yes. Whether they will consolidate or push on up the league is another question that can only be answered when it inevitably happens this season.

 

I didn't rate Nolan as much as some people on here did. Most of the time he was playing, he received abuse for not having a good enough engine for central midfield, lack of pace and creativity. Sure he has scored plenty of goals (mainly in CCC and early part of last season), but who's to say that someone else given the opportunity couldn't of done the same or created more opportunities, or actually helped out Tiote in the middle of the field. Looking at Nolans 'replacement', Cabaye. I can honestly say I am over the moon! Sure the dressing room influence etc. might be missing, but someone always steps up to take the lead so that doesn't concern me. So when you talk about losing 3 of our best players last season, I'm just bemused really.

 

IMO, with the new direction that Pardew is talking about and the influx of young, exciting players in our team... in addition to the solid foundations of some senior players, it can only be a good thing and something I am very much looking forward to seeing in this coming season.

[Elliottman]

Lets just hope that these new players (inc. Ben Arfa and Gosling) live up to expectations then.

 

I really believe that our squad has improved in quality over this transfer window. Obviously this will be measured by results and that's fine, but I feel positive about our ambitions for this coming season. I think Carr has done wonders for this club and you can't honestly say that this current squad isn't far superior to our squads of the last 6-7 seasons! It has the potential of being a very good squad and especially with the possible addition of another quality striker and replacement left back.

 

Of course, when the issue of injuries arises, the first question asked is have we got adequate replacements at hand and I think the answer is yes. Whether they will consolidate or push on up the league is another question that can only be answered when it inevitably happens this season.

 

I didn't rate Nolan as much as some people on here did. Most of the time he was playing, he received abuse for not having a good enough engine for central midfield, lack of pace and creativity. Sure he has scored plenty of goals (mainly in CCC and early part of last season), but who's to say that someone else given the opportunity couldn't of done the same or created more opportunities, or actually helped out Tiote in the middle of the field. Looking at Nolans 'replacement', Cabaye. I can honestly say I am over the moon! Sure the dressing room influence etc. might be missing, but someone always steps up to take the lead so that doesn't concern me. So when you talk about losing 3 of our best players last season, I'm just bemused really.

 

IMO, with the new direction that Pardew is talking about and the influx of young, exciting players in our team... in addition to the solid foundations of some senior players, it can only be a good thing and something I am very much looking forward to seeing in this coming season.

 

 

Jesus, finally some positivity!

[Guest Mantis]

Lets hope new signings do arrive before UV is proved right.  Big squad short on ability.

[geordieglory]

All the arguments I've seen for the squad being better than last year rely heavily on all or most of the new players (plus Ben Arfa, Gosling & replacement LB) fitting in, adapting to the Prem, staying fit and generally living up to expectations of being good players and "better" than the ones they're replacing (Carroll, Nolan, Routledge, very probably Enrique + anyone else to leave), and enabling the team to play in a new style which is probably going to score less goals but spread them around more and win games by increasing possession stats .

 

That's a pretty big ask, and an unrealistic expectation IMO. That's nothing to do with the cost of the players, nor based on any kind of analysis of the players themselves, just simple expectation management based on years of experience of many (most?) new signings for one reason or another not living up to expectations. Some new players will obviously live up to or exceed expectations and be players you want in the first team every week, some will be okay and you'd be happy with them as squad players but would rather have better as first choice, and some will simply be either terrible, never get a chance to play or are sicknotes who are just a drain on the wage bill. Ask yourself when was the last time all (or even most) of our new signings turned out to be players you were happy to be regulars in the first team. Off the top of my head I'd probably say the percentages are something like 25%, 50%, 25%, so for every 4 new players, roughly 1 will be good, 2 will be meh, and 1 will be a Xisco/Gonzalez/Perch/Campbell. That's not a criticism of our club, it's the same everywhere, so why would this year be any different? It might be, but it's unlikely. That's not being negative, or writing players off before they've had a chance or any s*** like that, it's just being realistic about the odds.

 

When you keep your best players from the previous year and replace half a dozen of the weaker squad members with new ones, you can be fairly happy that you've probably improved, because the couple of the new players that come good will displace the ones from last year who don't perform as well. However when you get rid of 3 of your best players from the previous year (I'm assuming Enrique will go), you're already starting on the back foot and need 3 of the new players to at least match their contribution just to stay still. That's is a criticism of our club. It's not impossible, but it's very unlikely to be the case that we'll have a better squad for this year than we did at the end of the last Summer window even if we do get another striker in IMO, and tbh that squad wasn't the strongest and probably over-performed as newly promoted teams do.

 

Good post if a bit depressing.

[oldtype]

All the arguments I've seen for the squad being better than last year rely heavily on all or most of the new players (plus Ben Arfa, Gosling & replacement LB) fitting in, adapting to the Prem, staying fit and generally living up to expectations of being good players and "better" than the ones they're replacing (Carroll, Nolan, Routledge, very probably Enrique + anyone else to leave), and enabling the team to play in a new style which is probably going to score less goals but spread them around more and win games by increasing possession stats .

 

That's a pretty big ask, and an unrealistic expectation IMO. That's nothing to do with the cost of the players, nor based on any kind of analysis of the players themselves, just simple expectation management based on years of experience of many (most?) new signings for one reason or another not living up to expectations. Some new players will obviously live up to or exceed expectations and be players you want in the first team every week, some will be okay and you'd be happy with them as squad players but would rather have better as first choice, and some will simply be either terrible, never get a chance to play or are sicknotes who are just a drain on the wage bill. Ask yourself when was the last time all (or even most) of our new signings turned out to be players you were happy to be regulars in the first team. Off the top of my head I'd probably say the percentages are something like 25%, 50%, 25%, so for every 4 new players, roughly 1 will be good, 2 will be meh, and 1 will be a Xisco/Gonzalez/Perch/Campbell. That's not a criticism of our club, it's the same everywhere, so why would this year be any different? It might be, but it's unlikely. That's not being negative, or writing players off before they've had a chance or any s*** like that, it's just being realistic about the odds.

 

When you keep your best players from the previous year and replace half a dozen of the weaker squad members with new ones, you can be fairly happy that you've probably improved, because the couple of the new players that come good will displace the ones from last year who don't perform as well. However when you get rid of 3 of your best players from the previous year (I'm assuming Enrique will go), you're already starting on the back foot and need 3 of the new players to at least match their contribution just to stay still. That's is a criticism of our club. It's not impossible, but it's very unlikely to be the case that we'll have a better squad for this year than we did at the end of the last Summer window even if we do get another striker in IMO, and tbh that squad wasn't the strongest and probably over-performed as newly promoted teams do.

 

Good post if a bit depressing.

 

I agree with the general idea that we can't expect everyone to succeed, but the 25/50/25 ratio is completely made up

 

Common sense probably tells us that most of the players we're signed so far are likely to be pretty decent.

[nufc4eva]

Tbh we are looking at central defenders for 1 place, Colo never gets injured and is an athlete, I think Williamson and Taylor with kadar as backup is fine. Also want to see us give our young players like tav a go.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

, Colo never gets injured

 

I hope you're not tempting fate with that comment.

As for Tavernier I hope that if /when Enrique goes I hope that he won't be put in the team and expected to cope straight away.

Most young players should be gradually introduced.

Remember Tavernier was playing Blue Square football on loan last season  with Gateshead FC and its a big leap from that to the premiership.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Aye just look at Chris Smalling and Seamus Coleman. Both playing very low level football up until recently. I'm not saying he'll be that good but it's been proven people can make the grade.

[Rich]

, Colo never gets injured

 

I hope you're not tempting fate with that comment.

As for Tavernier I hope that if /when Enrique goes I hope that he won't be put in the team and expected to cope straight away.

Most young players should be gradually introduced.

Remember Tavernier was playing Blue Square football on loan last season  with Gateshead FC and its a big leap from that to the premiership.

 

Well aye, he's a right-back though.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

, Colo never gets injured

 

I hope you're not tempting fate with that comment.

As for Tavernier I hope that if /when Enrique goes I hope that he won't be put in the team and expected to cope straight away.

Most young players should be gradually introduced.

Remember Tavernier was playing Blue Square football on loan last season  with Gateshead FC and its a big leap from that to the premiership.

 

Well aye, he's a right-back though.

 

But Tavernier did provide cover on both sides in the pre season tour.

[BlueStar]

I'm not saying that we're going to bomb this season - the players we have signed may well come good and some prospects may well come through and become premier league standard. The problem is with the way we are currently run is that it makes for a very fragile club that's only one season away from disaster. We need a slice of luck, when we sell a player like Carroll and someone like Best steps up and has a good run of form we can wipe our brow and say we've dodged a bullet, if Enrique goes and Ferguson does an ok job at filling in at leftback, if we skip on a proven talent and get a freebie who's ok, all well and good for that season. But it seems like we're running on a bit of a razors edge. Look at Wigan. As long as each season they have a Valencia or N'Zogbia who can keep them up and they can then sell and replace, they're fine. But it seems inevitable that one season their luck will run out.