Erik Pieters

[Punk77]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Spot on!

[Guest bimpy474]

I'm trying to look at this positively, the reason he isn't here yet is because poor Nanna Pieters snuffed it.

 

Funeral/burning is tomorrow, the lads grief and time to care care of his parents/relatives is going to hold things up for a couple of days.

 

Maybe Tuesday/Wednesday is should be all sorted out..................lovely

[midds]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

[quayside]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

[madras]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

quayside man, get used to it, whichever way we do things is wrong. if we do it the other way next time it'll be wrong again.

[midds]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

 

More to do with the fact they got rid of the player they needed to move on and replaced him with who they wanted. The 50m from Chelsea paid for Carroll as has already been well documented. It wad more the process of replacing him rather than the sums of money involved.

[Guest johnson293]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I agree that in an ideal world we should have been able to accept a fee, but say that Enrique wasn't going until we had a replacement, thus not leaving us short. I'd guess Liverpool wanted the deal doen in time for yesterdays game, and the fee offered may have dropped beyond that point.

 

However, the Torres deal was different, as Chelsea desperately wanted him, and he wasn't in the last year of his contract. So they were always gonna have to pay a huge fee for him, and Liverpool held all the cards.

 

Anway, hopefully we may bring a LB in this week, in time for the derby.

[GM]

I can't help wondering if perhaps the reason Enrique was sold before a replacement was signed may have something to do with Dalglish wanting to have a LB in place for the first match of the season, and NUFC knowing that with time ticking on Enrique's contract, their hand was being forced on this?

 

EDIT: Ah, I see johnson293 has just made much the same point...

[midds]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

quayside man, get used to it, whichever way we do things is wrong. if we do it the other way next time it'll be wrong again.

 

Not at all. I just think there's a right way and a wrong way to replace a key player. Had we signed Enrique's replacement the day before selling Enrique I'd have been the first to congratulate them. We've been put in the position of playing Ryan Taylor there and that's not acceptable imo. We needed to replace first, we didn't.

[madras]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

quayside man, get used to it, whichever way we do things is wrong. if we do it the other way next time it'll be wrong again.

 

Not at all. I just think there's a right way and a wrong way to replace a key player. Had we signed Enrique's replacement the day before selling Enrique I'd have been the first to congratulate them. We've been put in the position of playing Ryan Taylor there and that's not acceptable imo. We needed to replace first, we didn't.

it's easier said than done. as quayside has pointed out you could also end up being forced into selling even cheaper and we don't really know what made the transfer happen at that particular time (i noted in the enrique thread the timing seemed strange). many clubs have done this, most clubs i'd say haven't finished the their transfers for this summer but seemingly it's only us who are crap at it.

[midds]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point about managing the timing of transfers, but I'm really not convinced that paying £35m for

Carroll could be called a good end result for Liverpool. 

quayside man, get used to it, whichever way we do things is wrong. if we do it the other way next time it'll be wrong again.

 

Not at all. I just think there's a right way and a wrong way to replace a key player. Had we signed Enrique's replacement the day before selling Enrique I'd have been the first to congratulate them. We've been put in the position of playing Ryan Taylor there and that's not acceptable imo. We needed to replace first, we didn't.

it's easier said than done. as quayside has pointed out you could also end up being forced into selling even cheaper and we don't really know what made the transfer happen at that particular time (i noted in the enrique thread the timing seemed strange). many clubs have done this, most clubs i'd say haven't finished the their transfers for this summer but seemingly it's only us who are crap at it.

 

I suppose we'll only know come Sept 1st.

 

Not particularly bothered if other clubs are crap at it too. I'm only concerned about how we operate and we've sold both Carroll and Enrique without replacing them to convenience Liverpool. I'd like them to do what's best for us from a footballing point of view rather than a financial point of view. Put the football team first. If that means spending a bit of cash then fucking do it.

[Frazzle]

I don't think we would've got £35m for Carroll if we hadn't sold him at the last minute, Liverpool panicked.  We ended up without a replacement but Liverpool probably ended up paying £10m more than they wanted to.

 

Obviously doesn't help us a great deal unless the money is invested wisely but we did benefit somewhat from the timing of the deal.

[midds]

I don't think we would've got £35m for Carroll if we hadn't sold him at the last minute, Liverpool panicked.  We ended up without a replacement but Liverpool probably ended up paying £10m more than they wanted to.

 

Obviously doesn't help us a great deal unless the money is invested wisely but we did benefit somewhat from the timing of the deal.

 

Fair point.

 

Any benefit was purely financial though which, as you say, is fairly irrelevant if it's not going to be used. I'm frustrated that we make these deals purely to maximise income rather than do what's best for the team. That's my criticism.

[Guest bimpy474]

The price of Carroll was irrelevent to Liverpool, they had told Chelsea that they wanted £15m more for Torres than Carroll cost, so it was always us in the driving seat, Liverpool always knew they were getting £15m profit whatever the price of Carroll.

[Frazzle]

The price of Carroll was irrelevent to Liverpool, they had told Chelsea that they wanted £15m more for Torres than Carroll cost, so it was always us in the driving seat, Liverpool always knew they were getting £15m profit whatever the price of Carroll.

 

The price wasn't irrelevant to Liverpool though.  Surely they would've rather paid £20m for Carroll and spend the rest of the money elsewhere.  Just because the fees were linked does not mean that Liverpool didn't overpay.

 

They didn't have to buy Carroll at all and could've spent £35m on Aguero (just an example) or anyone else.

[Guest bimpy474]

The price of Carroll was irrelevent to Liverpool, they had told Chelsea that they wanted £15m more for Torres than Carroll cost, so it was always us in the driving seat, Liverpool always knew they were getting £15m profit whatever the price of Carroll.

 

The price wasn't irrelevant to Liverpool though.  Surely they would've rather paid £20m for Carroll and spend the rest of the money elsewhere.  Just because the fees were linked does not mean that Liverpool didn't overpay.

 

They didn't have to buy Carroll at all and could've spent £35m on Aguero (just an example) or anyone else.

 

You misunderstand mate, Liverpool weren't getting £50m whatever Carrols price, they told Chelsea it would be Carrolls price + £15m for Torres.

 

£35m+£15M = £50m, if we had accepted say £25m for Carroll, then Chelsea would have paid £40m for Torres.

[Frazzle]

The price of Carroll was irrelevent to Liverpool, they had told Chelsea that they wanted £15m more for Torres than Carroll cost, so it was always us in the driving seat, Liverpool always knew they were getting £15m profit whatever the price of Carroll.

 

The price wasn't irrelevant to Liverpool though.  Surely they would've rather paid £20m for Carroll and spend the rest of the money elsewhere.  Just because the fees were linked does not mean that Liverpool didn't overpay.

 

They didn't have to buy Carroll at all and could've spent £35m on Aguero (just an example) or anyone else.

 

You misunderstand mate, Liverpool weren't getting £50m whatever Carrols price, they told Chelsea it would be Carrolls price + £15m for Torres.

 

£35m+£15M = £50m, if we had accepted say £25m for Carroll, then Chelsea would have paid £40m for Torres.

 

I understand that but if Chelsea were willing to pay £50m on Torres then they were willing to pay it regardless of where the money went.  Liverpool got £50m to spend on whoever they liked, they chose to spend £35m of it on Carroll.  It could've been spent more wisely IMO.

[Guest bimpy474]

The price of Carroll was irrelevent to Liverpool, they had told Chelsea that they wanted £15m more for Torres than Carroll cost, so it was always us in the driving seat, Liverpool always knew they were getting £15m profit whatever the price of Carroll.

 

The price wasn't irrelevant to Liverpool though.  Surely they would've rather paid £20m for Carroll and spend the rest of the money elsewhere.  Just because the fees were linked does not mean that Liverpool didn't overpay.

 

They didn't have to buy Carroll at all and could've spent £35m on Aguero (just an example) or anyone else.

 

You misunderstand mate, Liverpool weren't getting £50m whatever Carrols price, they told Chelsea it would be Carrolls price + £15m for Torres.

 

£35m+£15M = £50m, if we had accepted say £25m for Carroll, then Chelsea would have paid £40m for Torres.

 

I understand that but if Chelsea were willing to pay £50m on Torres then they were willing to pay it regardless of where the money went.  Liverpool got £50m to spend on whoever they liked, they chose to spend £35m of it on Carroll.  It could've been spent more wisely IMO.

 

But the deal wouldn't have happened for Torres unless Liverpool got Carroll, he was Dalglish's target, and as it was the last day of the wndow they told Chelsea they wouldn't sell Torres unless they got Carroll, Liverpool knew we would want a massive price as it was the last day of the window, and thats where the +£15m came in, our price for Carroll dictated the final Torres price.

 

Your right though as it stands now the money all round could have been spent better.

[TRon]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

Looking at yesterday's game Liverpool seem to hae spent a fortune on going backwards. Charlie Adam and Jordan Henderson are barely better than most run of the mill premier midfielders and they looked a lot less fluid as a team than the one which was starting last season. If that's what having proper football people at the club gets you then they are welcome to it.

[oldtype]

So they've jacked up the asking price a couple million or so because they think we're desperate?

 

News flash, we are desperate. Go pay them their money.

 

I'm not normally one to call for desperation signings, but different situations demand different levels of urgency. Not having a left back for the Derby is pretty fucking urgent. Just pay them or somebody else however much they want and get it done.

 

We can afford to wait till the end of the window for a striker, we have plenty of strikers, it's just that most of them are shit. We have flat-out no left-backs, and it's frankly completely unacceptable if this situation extends beyond one game.

 

If we go into next Saturday with Ryan Taylor at left back again, heads need to roll.

[midds]

This is what happens when you sell before you replace. The selling club cotton on to the fact we're getting a bit desperate, they raise his price, make things difficult safe in the knowledge that the window is closing. The more they procrastinate the better chance they have of making a lot of money. The longer it goes on the more PSV can push it knowing they hold all of the cards.

 

This situation is entirely of our own making and completely preventable.

 

There is also the flip side, where we sign a new LB before Enrique goes.... Liverpool then know we have two 'first choice' left backs... one of which desperately wants away, and they start throwing lower offers in for JE.

 

Its just that fine balancing act of trying to get the best price for our player, but also trying not to pay over the odds for the next one.

 

Liverpool know how it works because they've got football people running their club whereas we're run by people who have little experience. In January Liverpool had a similar situation with trying to offload Torres and buy Carroll. They made it clear they weren't prepared to sell Torres until they signed Carroll. They played it perfectly, getting exactly what they wanted whereas we were left short. They've just taken Enrique and Lo and behold we've been left short again. Anyone spotting any patterns here? At least we've not sold him on deadline day I suppose....

 

Looking at yesterday's game Liverpool seem to hae spent a fortune on going backwards. Charlie Adam and Jordan Henderson are barely better than most run of the mill premier midfielders and they looked a lot less fluid as a team than the one which was starting last season. If that's what having proper football people at the club gets you then they are welcome to it.

 

My frustration comes from the actual logistics and timings of their transfers though.

 

Couldn't care less about the names on the back of the shirts and the money changing hands, it's how they've gone about it. They've brought in who they wanted at a price they were comfortable paying.

[Ryan_Taylor]

Letting Jose go without at least agreeing a fee for Pieters. Criminal

[Colocho]

Just need to get this over and done with.

 

I've been quite vocal about getting Enrique out of the door as quickly as possible, and replacing him with a young, talented player, who ideally wants to be part of the progress that the board are supposedly attempting to make.

[TRon]

Pardew is also upbeat on new arrivals with Newcastle holding constructive talks with full-back Erik Pieters yesterday.

They have offered him a four-year contract and are hopeful of pushing it over the line by Tuesday.

Pardew said: “We’re confident we’ll have some new players here by next weekend.

“I don’t want to talk about specific players, but I’m confident that by the time we play Sunderland I’ll have a left-back in place – and hopefully a striker.”

 

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/08/14/alan-pardew-predicts-a-treble-boost-for-nufc-79310-29231640/2/

 

 

[mickthemagpie]

Got a text from a nephew who has a friend who works at SJP. Says the Pieters deal is done (subject to medical i assume) and he will be coming over after his grans funeral which is tomorrow, presumably for a medical. Fits i with Pardew saying he expects to have someone in by Tuesday.