Disco Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Wrong thread and I've said it before but Carr is a very good contacts man, he isn't (what I would class as a) brilliant scout. Even then any old cunt (me) can load up transfermarkt and find out who an agent to a player in a less paid league is these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 That's it. That's exactly it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Like Disco says, Carr knows people in France and that's probably the extent of his ability as a scout. I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I can accept all of that, no problem. He's still got to filter out good players who meet the criteria from the dogshit that also meet the criteria though surely? He's still got to sort the wheat from the chaff eventually? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. It's not useless, given that we're a side who prioritise bargaining leverage first and suitability for the team second. A real PL club with ambition would have little need for it, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Like Disco says, Carr knows people in France and that's probably the extent of his ability as a scout. I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. Very true and my opinion is probably wrong given I have no exposure to scouting but to me he's almost a club appointed agent working his known channels. Although in his defence I'd say Haidara is a scouts pick, however Cabaye, MYM, etc. - just opportunism but then again he'll dine out on the Cabaye signing for the rest of his days. Our problem is we're so limited as a club it doesn't matter whether he's a scout/agent/whatever so long as the club can get exploitative value on a signing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Even Haidara was getting touted about in the English press before his move, mind. To Villa IIRC. Again it'll be agent links above all else and the fact he was going for pennies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Like Disco says, Carr knows people in France and that's probably the extent of his ability as a scout. I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. Very true and my opinion is probably wrong given I have no exposure to scouting but to me he's almost a club appointed agent working his known channels. Although in his defence I'd say Haidara is a scouts pick, however Cabaye, MYM, etc. - just opportunism but then again he'll dine out on the Cabaye signing for the rest of his days. Our problem is we're so limited as a club it doesn't matter whether he's a scout/agent/whatever so long as the club can get exploitative value on a signing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 there will be plenty of players available for pennies around france and the world though, carr's main draw seems to be finding a balance between quality and costing pennies shame pardew doesn't fit into the equation at all, carr is making a jigsaw and pards is playing fucking jenga with a sledgehammer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rent-A-Quote Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. It's not useless, given that we're a side who prioritise bargaining leverage first and suitability for the team second. A real PL club with ambition would have little need for it, mind. Yep considering his criteria is any of the following, preferably multiple: Last year of contract Contract clause Friend at our club Injury questions hence cheap Attitude questions hence cheap Free transfer Low wages in other league Can be sold for a profit My point about Bony was more that he is one who Carr would've recommended we know about but we wouldn't pay the money for, not necessarily saying Carr is a scouting god. We don't know the countless players in our database to replace our '11 purples' should one of them leave who he's recommended who Mike has said no to. He's obviously recommending players above our limit otherwise all these easy bargains to be found on football manager 2014 would've been brought in as mike loves a bargain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't think that's a useless ability though. Unless you're hunting down 15 year olds kicking pigskins in South America or something, the vast majority of modern scouting is networking, not spotting hidden gems with your own eyes. It's not useless, given that we're a side who prioritise bargaining leverage first and suitability for the team second. A real PL club with ambition would have little need for it, mind. Don't be silly. Even if you were Man City how could it possibly be useless to have somebody who's chums with agents/club officials who will give you the buzz on hot new prospects and help facilitate deals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hot new prospects. Aye, right. Carr's line is to average, largely unnoticed players scratching around a poor league, Cabaye aside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hot new prospects. Aye, right. Carr's line is to average, largely unnoticed players scratching around a poor league, Cabaye aside. I'm talking in general, not about Carr. I assume you work in some sort of business, is having strong relationships with your clients completely useless to you? It's no different for football clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think what Carr does is being massively oversimplified tbf. If anyone can name any other scout in the PL unearthing gem players in all ears. But the fact is none are (Carr included) but within the remit of his role he's very good Most clubs have more than one scout but Arsenal/Chelsea do a good job of signing randoms and flogging them for profit if nowt else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Name another scout in the PL who has the power to override the manager's judgement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As I've said before, that's what Carr basically is, a DOF. I'd just much prefer the forefront of our transfer system was identifying players suitable for our purpose, observing them, attaching a reasonable hypothetical valuation and then making it fucking happen. In such a system Carr's skills would be pretty redundant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 He'd be obsolete in a ambitious club that identifies players based on suitability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We're both speculating. But all he's shown at NUFC is the ability to find contractually vulnerable average players and recommending better players most of us know of on N-O. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We're both speculating. But all he's shown at NUFC is the ability to find contractually vulnerable average players and recommending better players most of us know of on N-O. Wasn't there a load of spiel ages back about the research he puts into players when scouting them, i.e. looking into their character and such. Sure I recall that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 How do you know which players he's recommended? Just because we only go for the cheap / out of contract ones because we're cunts doesn't mean that's all he's putting forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We're both speculating. But all he's shown at NUFC is the ability to find contractually vulnerable average players and recommending better players most of us know of on N-O. No he hasn't. Those are the players the club has gone for out of the ones you've recommended. You have no idea who Carr recommends or whether he is or isn't good at his job besides from judging its output. Stop pretending otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ron, Carr does select players which are suitable for Ashley blue print of buy em cheap sell em expensive. The issue is the manager isn't suitable for this philosophy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ron, Carr does select players which are suitable for Ashley blue print of buy em cheap sell em expensive. The issue is the manager isn't suitable for this philosophy And buying players cheap to sell them expensive isn't a philosophy suited to success. That's my point. Buy players to win you fucking football matches and hold onto them if they're good enough to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ron, Carr does select players which are suitable for Ashley blue print of buy em cheap sell em expensive. The issue is the manager isn't suitable for this philosophy And buying players cheap to sell them expensive isn't a philosophy suited to success. That's my point. Buy players to win you f***ing football matches and hold onto them if they're good enough to do that. It isn't but the horrible truth is that his remit. Like so many things Newcastle it's hard to gauge true value or worth when the club is set up in such a ramshackle way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We're both speculating. But all he's shown at NUFC is the ability to find contractually vulnerable average players and recommending better players most of us know of on N-O. No he hasn't. Those are the players the club has gone for out of the ones you've recommended. You have no idea who Carr recommends or whether he is or isn't good at his job besides from judging its output. Stop pretending otherwise. I know Carr recommended we pay £7m for MYM when we needed a bigger, more dominant, more instantly PL suited CB. And overruled paying less than £3m for Adam Lallana. Carr's a failed lower league manager who is good at wheeling and dealing average French players through his connections there. He's a vital cog in a horrible transfer system. The sooner Ashley, Pardew, Charnley and him fuck off, the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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