Mike Ashley

[Guest Howaythetoon]

genuine belief here that if he gets the booing ,banners and media against him that he will do everything in his power to shaft us the fans good and proper by selling our best players for personal gain

 

Not enough in the world for this man. ffs personal gain? Its like selling your house for half price to a family of chav scum because you hate the neighbours. He gets no f***ing gain!

 

This is something I dont  completely understand - the personal gain thing.  Does anyone know, and I have to say I do not know the answer, whether a business owner can simply take cash out out a business account and put it in his own personal account?

 

I mean, say NUFC sold two players this summer for 30M quid.  Is there a legitimate pathway for that money to be dropped into Ashley's own account, now or in the future, other than as a declared payment against outstanding loans owed to him, which would then be diminished by the amount paid?

 

Anyone? 

 

 

 

Theres nothing really stopping him taking money out at all, he has done so over the years. Its the idiocy of selling the best players for 'personal gain' resulting in getting us relegated and losing tens of millions in the process that is such a backward notion. His greatest personal gain would be to spend as little as possible while ensuring we stay in the PL and paying off his debts til he starts taking out profit year on year. In other words what he is doing now.

 

Do you know this to be true though?  I mean, the accounts are scrutinised publicly for this kind of business, can you really just put your hand in the till as an owner (any type of business) without tax implications etc?

 

You can maybe guess, I'm no accountant.  It doesnt feel like it should be that straightforward, though?

 

I'm a director of my business and I draw a wage and get a directors dividend at the end of the business year. I can only take more money out of the business via a higher salary or a bigger dividend, all of which gets taxed.

 

I imagine its the same for Ashley, although if he is owed money from the business by way of loans/credit then that's another thing altogether.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If he is the only shareholder/director he can pay himself dividends basically whenever he wants as long as we make a profit. Yes, that information would have to be publicised in the accounts. He could pay himself a salary before profit in theory, but that would be subject to full income tax so he wouldn't do that.

[Guest Roger Kint]

genuine belief here that if he gets the booing ,banners and media against him that he will do everything in his power to shaft us the fans good and proper by selling our best players for personal gain

 

Not enough in the world for this man. ffs personal gain? Its like selling your house for half price to a family of chav scum because you hate the neighbours. He gets no f***ing gain!

 

This is something I dont  completely understand - the personal gain thing.  Does anyone know, and I have to say I do not know the answer, whether a business owner can simply take cash out out a business account and put it in his own personal account?

 

I mean, say NUFC sold two players this summer for 30M quid.  Is there a legitimate pathway for that money to be dropped into Ashley's own account, now or in the future, other than as a declared payment against outstanding loans owed to him, which would then be diminished by the amount paid?

 

Anyone? 

 

 

 

Theres nothing really stopping him taking money out at all, he has done so over the years. Its the idiocy of selling the best players for 'personal gain' resulting in getting us relegated and losing tens of millions in the process that is such a backward notion. His greatest personal gain would be to spend as little as possible while ensuring we stay in the PL and paying off his debts til he starts taking out profit year on year. In other words what he is doing now.

 

Do you know this to be true though?  I mean, the accounts are scrutinised publicly for this kind of business, can you really just put your hand in the till as an owner (any type of business) without tax implications etc?

 

You can maybe guess, I'm no accountant.  It doesnt feel like it should be that straightforward, though?

 

His loan has gone down £29m in two years. He can claim it when he likes providing the cash is there. He cant take cash out the till like a regular shopkeeper can but he is well within his rights to take money out he is owed.

[Dokko]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

[Guest Roger Kint]

If he is the only shareholder/director he can pay himself dividends basically whenever he wants as long as we make a profit. Yes, that information would have to be publicised in the accounts. He could pay himself a salary before profit in theory, but that would be subject to full income tax so he wouldn't do that.

 

Aye obviously as you and HTT say if he wants to take money out aside from his loan he would need to suffer tax implications of salary/dividends.

[Crayola Kid]

genuine belief here that if he gets the booing ,banners and media against him that he will do everything in his power to shaft us the fans good and proper by selling our best players for personal gain

 

Not enough in the world for this man. ffs personal gain? Its like selling your house for half price to a family of chav scum because you hate the neighbours. He gets no f***ing gain!

 

This is something I dont  completely understand - the personal gain thing.  Does anyone know, and I have to say I do not know the answer, whether a business owner can simply take cash out out a business account and put it in his own personal account?

 

I mean, say NUFC sold two players this summer for 30M quid.  Is there a legitimate pathway for that money to be dropped into Ashley's own account, now or in the future, other than as a declared payment against outstanding loans owed to him, which would then be diminished by the amount paid?

 

Anyone? 

 

 

 

Theres nothing really stopping him taking money out at all, he has done so over the years. Its the idiocy of selling the best players for 'personal gain' resulting in getting us relegated and losing tens of millions in the process that is such a backward notion. His greatest personal gain would be to spend as little as possible while ensuring we stay in the PL and paying off his debts til he starts taking out profit year on year. In other words what he is doing now.

 

Do you know this to be true though?  I mean, the accounts are scrutinised publicly for this kind of business, can you really just put your hand in the till as an owner (any type of business) without tax implications etc?

 

You can maybe guess, I'm no accountant.  It doesnt feel like it should be that straightforward, though?

 

I'm a director of my business and I draw a wage and get a directors dividend at the end of the business year. I can only take more money out of the business via a higher salary or a bigger dividend, all of which gets taxed.

 

I imagine its the same for Ashley, although if he is owed money from the business by way of loans/credit then that's another thing altogether.

 

Fucking Bingo.  Hoped someone with knowledge of this kind of thing would be on here.  Glad to know we cant be ripped in this particular way, cheers.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Loan repayments I guess are separate, I've never loaned any money to my company so I'm not sure how this works.

 

He could pay himself salary out of gross income, but that would be fully taxed.

 

He could pay himself dividends if there is profit in the business, that is taxed at a lower level because the company has already paid tax on its profits.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

If he finds a way to clear his debts and still have a PL team with crowds still turning up why on earth would he leave? He will be raking in the cash year on year. He is a businessman they dont usually walk away when the profits start coming in.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

We would never stay up while raising £100m from player sales though, surely.

 

If Ashley was really desperate to leave, he could always extend the debt terms to the new owner so they could service the debt over a long period like he is doing with himself now. It might not be that he would want it all back immediately. Dunno obviously.

[Dokko]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

If he finds a way to clear his debts and still have a PL team with crowds still turning up why on earth would he leave? He will be raking in the cash year on year. He is a businessman they dont usually walk away when the profits start coming in.

 

He'll be hated even more selling the players and not replacing them. Chances are wed stayed up by a hairs width bringing all that pressure and hate that comes with it. He'd accept the first offer than balances what he spends IMO, he CBa with the hassle of us now nevermind if that scenario came about.

[Dokko]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

We would never stay up while raising £100m from player sales though, surely.

 

If Ashley was really desperate to leave, he could always extend the debt terms to the new owner so they could service the debt over a long period like he is doing with himself now. It might not be that he would want it all back immediately. Dunno obviously.

 

Probably not no. Depends really. The 3 promoted teams aren't up to much, it would be a massive gamble.

 

Transferring the debt seems likely, then we still have a regime involving Ashley demanding his cash whenever it turns a profit or maybe regardless of a profit.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

If he finds a way to clear his debts and still have a PL team with crowds still turning up why on earth would he leave? He will be raking in the cash year on year. He is a businessman they dont usually walk away when the profits start coming in.

 

He'll be hated even more selling the players and not replacing them. Chances are wed stayed up by a hairs width bringing all that pressure and hate that comes with it. He'd accept the first offer than balances what he spends IMO, he CBa with the hassle of us now nevermind if that scenario came about.

 

We stayed up with 2 games to go this season how would 1 game change people that much? People arent walking away regardless of the furore of JFK/this season and neither would Ashley just because a few people sang a catchy song about him again.

[Dokko]

Sell all our best players for daft money, replace them on the cheap, pray we stay in the division and we'd be a huge step closer to getting rid of him.

 

If we could pay him £100m without going in to the red I think there would be loads of people wanting us at that reduced price.

 

It's the only way I see us being in a position to be sold.

 

If he finds a way to clear his debts and still have a PL team with crowds still turning up why on earth would he leave? He will be raking in the cash year on year. He is a businessman they dont usually walk away when the profits start coming in.

 

He'll be hated even more selling the players and not replacing them. Chances are wed stayed up by a hairs width bringing all that pressure and hate that comes with it. He'd accept the first offer than balances what he spends IMO, he CBa with the hassle of us now nevermind if that scenario came about.

 

We stayed up with 2 games to go this season how would 1 game change people that much? People arent walking away regardless of the furore of JFK/this season and neither would Ashley just because a few people sang a catchy song about him again.

 

I don't really think you get what I'm saying. That's all a by-product of getting the club in to a position where it is more likely to sell, that just adds to the scenario.

 

All he cares about is money, if he has his loans paid back and an offer comes in for the club, an offer of more than he paid (before the recession) then he would sell, he's got nothing to stay for, in the end we might turn a profit but without investment at that stage we would eventually go down. That would be someone else problem by then.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Fair enough but as what you are saying is as unlikely as it gets, why argue it? In theory yeah great he could sell everything and have us stay up year on year but thats simply never going to work out like that. The easiest way to get his money is to continue down his current path, anything else is a risk somebody 'only cares about money' would never do.

[Dokko]

Fair enough but as what you are saying is as unlikely as it gets, why argue it? In theory yeah great he could sell everything and have us stay up year on year but thats simply never going to work out like that. The easiest way to get his money is to continue down his current path, anything else is a risk somebody 'only cares about money' would never do.

 

As I said its the only way I'd see us getting rid of him. Maybe selling over 2-3 years and getting his loans back is actually a more likely scenario but I was just getting at the idea of stripping the club of its assets to pay its debts so he's got no reason to stick around. Anything less than that and he stays regardless of paper talk. We couldn't even get an £80m bid last time round, no chance someone is going to pay near Liverpool money for us.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Stripping the club of its assets though, especially players who are expensive to replace, is going to mean a buyer requires a lot more money to make us successful again in future.

[Dokko]

Stripping the club of its assets though, especially players who are expensive to replace, is going to mean a buyer requires a lot more money to make us successful again in future.

 

No one is going to be in that position if the club is priced at £267m.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Stripping the club of its assets though, especially players who are expensive to replace, is going to mean a buyer requires a lot more money to make us successful again in future.

 

Exactly, devaluing the club is the opposite of how anyone would try and sell up. The idea is you make it look as attractive as possible, no debts, regular profits, good squad etc. Any notion of asset stripping is completely stupid.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Stripping the club of its assets though, especially players who are expensive to replace, is going to mean a buyer requires a lot more money to make us successful again in future.

 

No one is going to be in that position if the club is priced at £267m.

 

Probably right, I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily make the club massively more attractive to buy.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Stripping the club of its assets though, especially players who are expensive to replace, is going to mean a buyer requires a lot more money to make us successful again in future.

 

No one is going to be in that position if the club is priced at £267m.

 

Which is why he said he would sell at the right price, he knows he isnt going anywhere while theres money to be made running us as he is now.

[Toonpack]

I'd happily pay 1K to watch an NUFC side as good as KK's or Sir Bobby's trying to actually win things and in a pleasing way too. Given the amount of good money I spend on tat in my life it would be well worth it.

 

To watch what Pardew serves up.... I would pay a tenner a ticket!

 

That said, I reckon lower ticket prices is a good thing and I wouldn't like to see ours rise even if we were playing good stuff and doing well.

 

Our commercial revenue is appalling though. We have a very shitty kit deal, a shitty sponsor deal and we get nowt in advertising around the ground and even what we do get is from local firms meaning pennies. We outsourced our catering and even the club shop and website makes f*** all.

 

The corporate end is dead these days, people just don't want to pay good money to watch a s*** team and a toxic brand.

 

When KK was manager big companies and very rich men were fighting to get a box and to get tickets. Same with Sir Bobby's era. Today anyone on here can get a seat in an executive box even against the mackems.

 

You do realise what outsourcing means don't you ??

 

It usually means you get a better deal than the cost of running something yourself. Which furthermore is guaranteed for the length of the contract, no ups and downs, guaranteed steady moolah.

 

The commercial revenue is poor, granted, but to sell corporate you've got to have a company with major presence in an area to entertain visitors. Not so sure there's that many around here now, certainly not with schmoosing, entertainment budgets like they used to be.

 

Of course I do, I'm a business owner/manager.

 

For me, outsourcing is like handing over a bit of your business to someone else. While we no doubt get a steady return over the course of a few years, we have no control over the quality nor can we improve our margins while tied to such a deal. To me, its a kop-out. Under FS we made decent money from catering and events and such. I think we make like 2m a year from this as it stands which is p*ss poor to be honest. 53,000 fans every other week and thousands of people working and being in and around SJP every week?

 

Ashley outsourcing is another clear sign of an exit strategy btw.

 

Me, if I were Ashley I'd buy a Macdonald's franchise and stick one in each stand. The club would make a fortune. I'd even bolt one to the stadium for non-match days too.

 

OK you don't understand outsourcing then.

 

Businesses don't hand over "core" business they outsource peripheral stuff. NUFC's core business is not making/sourcing pies/sausage rolls or brewing/selling beer or bovril.

 

Companies who do catering (for example) are geared to be able to undertake the same catering for less (economies of scale) than a non-catering company trying to set up a catering side-line. You don't outsource to make less money, you outsource to make more money.

 

All the money you get from an outsourced deal is 100% margin, you have no overhead, run it yourself and your margin is variable.

 

BTW SJH first outsourced the catering.

[BottledDog]

Are people suggesting an expensive lawyer as a preferable director of football.

 

 

Think I'll be forever bemused at the love that Chris Mort still generates.

 

It's almost as if you always manage to be behind whatever Ashley's up to at any given time, without ever going to the trouble of criticising any past decisions in any detail.

 

Is Mr Mort your dad or summink?

 

I think you'll find the times people feel the need to look at it from the other side (which apparently grinds your gears something rotten) is precisely because someone hasn't gone to the trouble of criticising past decisions in any detail beyond 'he's a nonsensical cnut'.

 

Oh, and I'm proper loving his latest stunt by the way. Totally behind it.

[Interpolic]

Are people suggesting an expensive lawyer as a preferable director of football.

 

 

Think I'll be forever bemused at the love that Chris Mort still generates.

 

It's almost as if you always manage to be behind whatever Ashley's up to at any given time, without ever going to the trouble of criticising any past decisions in any detail.

 

Is Mr Mort your dad or summink?

 

I think you'll find the times people feel the need to look at it from the other side (which apparently grinds your gears something rotten) is precisely because someone hasn't gone to the trouble of criticising past decisions in any detail beyond 'he's a nonsensical cnut'.

 

Oh, and I'm proper loving his latest stunt by the way. Totally behind it.

 

I just find the comment strange, how come you weren't crying out for a Director of Football when the lawyer was in charge, or when the casino owner was in charge?

[biggs]

genuine belief here that if he gets the booing ,banners and media against him that he will do everything in his power to shaft us the fans good and proper by selling our best players for personal gain

 

Not enough in the world for this man. ffs personal gain? Its like selling your house for half price to a family of chav scum because you hate the neighbours. He gets no fucking gain!

I mean he is a billionaire and this is a play thing for him,do you think he is bothered 

[Disco]

Not too Ashley but I'd love it if someone made a 'Which one of you is Joe Kinnear? You're a cunt' banner to hang from the top tier at City on the opening day. Although knowing us we won't take the full allocation.