Guest neesy111 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Last seasons accounts will be interesting, due in the next 4-6 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. If it's disappearing, it will only be to reduce the debt to Ashley. Just on the earlier subject of luck btw, where we definitely got very lucky last season was that Chelsea and Liverpool had unbelievably bad seasons by their own standards. Chelsea were always going to spend stupid money and go through managers for fun in order to rectify that, but we still had that over them for one summer. More importantly we had a golden chance to show that we had just as much promise and ambition as Liverpool and Everton to compete with Spurs and Arsenal and yet all of those clubs are already out of sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. The next set of published accounts should tell us a lot more than pages of conjecture. I'm putting my money on the club making a significant profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 By the end of Jan we'll see what's really what. After the bunlged summer and what with our relegation worries, this window is crucial. I understand their transfer policy and wage structure - but ocassionally you have to be counter intuitive just to be sure you have done all you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It depends what you support at the end of the day. A football team or a business. It boils my piss every day when I receive "top offers" from the club for the world's shittest hoodies. Everything about the club at the moment seems to be about profit, and that's not what football's ever been about at its core. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Maybe the bloke should had done some research before getting into the football business as it's pretty clear he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 All the same, to pretend there's a separation between a financially healthy club and a successful one is silly. Long term, if we're making a profit and competing, we're going to get better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. If it's disappearing, it will only be to reduce the debt to Ashley. Just on the earlier subject of luck btw, where we definitely got very lucky last season was that Chelsea and Liverpool had unbelievably bad seasons by their own standards. Chelsea were always going to spend stupid money and go through managers for fun in order to rectify that, but we still had that over them for one summer. More importantly we had a golden chance to show that we had just as much promise and ambition as Liverpool and Everton to compete with Spurs and Arsenal and yet all of those clubs are already out of sight. Aye, was going to suggest this but just didn't want to really. Don't like the idea of him taking his money back in increments at all and would be quite saddened by it, but again I suppose it's his prerogative if he does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Are you referring to Debuchy for example? He was the biggest near-miss of the summer but then we clearly weren't doing it just for show because we've just gone and signed him. And as far as the Cisse fee goes, had QPR not come in for Remy, we'd have spent pretty much that fee again a couple of days ago. So I don't really think any of that holds water. It just looks to me like we're sticking to our transfer policy and plugging away at getting our targets on sensible terms. We don't try to make a profit so the club can arbitrarily sit on some money. We try to make a profit so we can be in a stronger position in the future. If we made a steady loss, it would be to the eventual detriment of the team because we'd be forced to sell players. Making a steady profit = much much better in the long term. Obviously. So the club saved how much on Debuchy in the six months? £1m? How many league places will that cost us over the course of a season? Impossible to predict. But let's say 1. Isn't that at least £3m in reward money? The club have made an enormous mistake in failing to invest. In this case, it simply is penny-pinching and gambling, when in actuality the costs of signing the players would probably have been completely negated by improved league position. No one knows what they asked for him during the summer, but i bet it was a lot. His stakes was as high as ever tbh. So that is a not very good argument if you ask me. Mind i agree that we at times seems to come a bit short in out transfer negotiations. I am not that angry at out transfer policy, but i have a problem with Pardew not getting anything out of what we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Maybe the bloke should had done some research before getting into the football business as it's pretty clear he didn't. How long are we going to bang on about this? It's not like we can rewind to when he bought us. Who knows who we might have ended up with as an owner? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 All the same, to pretend there's a separation between a financially healthy club and a successful one is silly. Long term, if we're making a profit and competing, we're going to get better. Exactly, the argument about 'supporting a balance sheet' is a waste of time, we're discussing transfer policy which is inherently about money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Which, indeed, goes back to the question I asked (myself) when I just bumped this thread: why did he buy us in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Maybe the bloke should had done some research before getting into the football business as it's pretty clear he didn't. This conversation has been had a million times. I'm still not sure why he bought us. Just as an advertising vehicle? Just simply to "get into" football and make some very powerful contacts for his business empire? Was it a decision on a whim when the opportunity presented itself and he thought he could do well at it? Does he just love a bargain that much? In the early days I thought it reeked of enthusiam and they ploughed the money in to back Allardyce, but at the end of the day he was never like a Fernandes figure who got involved much and he's always had someone else running it day-to-day. Maybe he just wanted a toy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 By the end of Jan we'll see what's really what. After the bunlged summer and what with our relegation worries, this window is crucial. I understand their transfer policy and wage structure - but ocassionally you have to be counter intuitive just to be sure you have done all you can. I understand it too, it's the lack of flexibility to the detriment of the team on the pitch that annoys me. As long as we stay up I don't think Ashley will care a jot that we've been down the bottom of the table all season. By the way I distinctly remember a general consensus on here at the end of the season that the summer would tell us exactly what we needed to know about the ambition. Now it's 'let's see what gets done in the next 15 days' and I'm 100% convinced that next summer will be pointed at in the same way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I genuinely don't think there's anything Machiavellian going on, just think they get as much "joy" out of balancing the books as they do seeing us perform well. I'd even go so far as to say that whatever joy they do get out of us performing well is probably in-part due to how much better we'll be financially as a result. I don't think any money is disappearing or anything, and I never have done. Shame we don't support a balance sheet. Aye, but at the end of the day we haven't got a couple hundred million invested in the club. He's coming from a totally different angle to us lot, understandably (and sadly). Which, indeed, goes back to the question I asked (myself) when I just bumped this thread: why did he buy us in the first place? According to SJH it was as a marketing platform to take Sports Direct global. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 http://www.nufcfansutd.com/1/post/2013/01/minutes-from-140113.html Steve Wraith's group met with Wendy Taylor earlier this week. Makes interesting reading and the appointment of a fan liaison officer chimes with what was announced during the Wonga deal. Some encouraging comments, particularly on safe standing. FYI you can follow the new fan liaison officer on Twitter - @LeeMarshall9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think the main reason we'll buy now is because of the new TV deal that starts next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 All the same, to pretend there's a separation between a financially healthy club and a successful one is silly. Long term, if we're making a profit and competing, we're going to get better. Exactly, the argument about 'supporting a balance sheet' is a waste of time, we're discussing transfer policy which is inherently about money. Not really. If our only hope for some much needed investment in our squad (if we want to challenge for Europe, which should be our level of ambition) is Ashley may fear his investment will suffer from relegation at the midway point of the season I think we're going about this the wrong way. Again, this is a football club, not a sportswear store. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 All the same, to pretend there's a separation between a financially healthy club and a successful one is silly. Long term, if we're making a profit and competing, we're going to get better. Exactly, the argument about 'supporting a balance sheet' is a waste of time, we're discussing transfer policy which is inherently about money. Not really. If our only hope for some much needed investment in our squad (if we want to challenge for Europe, which should be our level of ambition) is Ashley may fear his investment will suffer from relegation at the midway point of the season I think we're going about this the wrong way. Again, this is a football club, not a sportswear store. it's a football club that is also, like it or not, a company that has to survive financially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 http://www.nufcfansutd.com/1/post/2013/01/minutes-from-140113.html Steve Wraith's group met with Wendy Taylor earlier this week. Makes interesting reading and the appointment of a fan liaison officer chimes with what was announced during the Wonga deal. Some encouraging comments, particularly on safe standing. FYI you can follow the new fan liaison officer on Twitter - @LeeMarshall9 Thanks for posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think the main reason we'll buy now is because of the new TV deal that starts next season Too much to lose by being relegated this season. Even the fat man himself must be slightly concerned at present Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 By the end of Jan we'll see what's really what. After the bunlged summer and what with our relegation worries, this window is crucial. I understand their transfer policy and wage structure - but ocassionally you have to be counter intuitive just to be sure you have done all you can. I understand it too, it's the lack of flexibility to the detriment of the team on the pitch that annoys me. As long as we stay up I don't think Ashley will care a jot that we've been down the bottom of the table all season. By the way I distinctly remember a general consensus on here at the end of the season that the summer would tell us exactly what we needed to know about the ambition. Now it's 'let's see what gets done in the next 15 days' and I'm 100% convinced that next summer will be pointed at in the same way. It's the same people saying lets wait and see who defended the transfer window in the summer. I said it at the time it was a disgrace and we went backwards and we bloody have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 http://www.nufcfansutd.com/1/post/2013/01/minutes-from-140113.html Steve Wraith's group met with Wendy Taylor earlier this week. Makes interesting reading and the appointment of a fan liaison officer chimes with what was announced during the Wonga deal. Some encouraging comments, particularly on safe standing. FYI you can follow the new fan liaison officer on Twitter - @LeeMarshall9 PR guff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 To suggest Mike Ashley doesn't care if we're at the bottom of the table as long as we stay up is really daft too. As is often pointed out, he has a lot of money invested in the club. If we hover around the drop zone all the time, he's going to have a rather stressful time of it. It's just as stupid to separate Ashley's desire to make money from his desire to see the club succeed as it is to separate making a profit from success. If Mike Ashley's club succeeds, he ends up making his money back and generally having a much nice time of it. He wants to succeed in business and right now that means wants the club to do well. He's got plenty of motivation for wanting to see us climb the league, clearly, just as he wants Sports Direct to do well, and any other company he's involved in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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