Guest JS Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Are you really comparing Ben arfa and Sessegnon?? Please... I thought you had a better knowledge of football than the Sunderland fans... Over the last few games Sess has produced more I'm sure that will change for Benny when he has something decent in front of him. Ok, but when Sessegnon joined Sunderland? Did he have a broken leg? Then missed the pre-season? Fortunately for him he's producing something now! Trust me, I've seen him play a lot (with PSG), he's nowhere near as good as Ben arfa. It's even quite an insult for Ben arfa to be compared to that player... True that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Worth remembering that while Sessegnon is in top form atm, it wasn't that long ago there were calls for him to be dropped by their fans. Also, when a player moves to the Premier League from abroad they're usually afforded a bedding in period, despite the fact Ben Arfa's been here for more than a year and a half, he's still only played in just over 15 league games, most of which didn't consist of a full 90 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Based on this season? Sessegnon. Still think Ben Arfa will be better with a bit of quality in front of him. Does Sess have quality in front of him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Based on this season? Sessegnon. Still think Ben Arfa will be better with a bit of quality in front of him. Does Sess have quality in front of him? Sess has played pretty much as a striker. Ben Arfa hasn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 When we talk about the effectiveness of a player you can't dismiss the manager's influence either. Sunderland look a different team with MON in charge because he's using the players at his disposal more effectively than Bruce did. Pardew has done well results wise but Ben Arfa doesn't really fit well into the team as it is currently set up. Maybe with Ba and Cisse it will look different, assuming Ben Arfa is still in the side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToonZA Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 He could do worse than watch Modric in action. He's not the greatest defensively, but he doesn't hang on to the ball too long, he reads situations very quickly, he works hard and consistently, and he uses his skill just as much to open opportunities for team-mates as to create something for himself. Ben Arfa still plays like an 18 year old who has just broken into the first team, trying to do too much on his own. I can see your point but Spurs have a lot more movement around Modric which makes it a lot easier for Modric to release the ball earlier. Until we see Ben Arfa with better players around him it's hard to draw any real conclusions how much of it is his fault and how much down to too many substandard footballers in the first 11. Fully agree. I hope our management team have the insight to formulate ways in which we can maximise his impact on the game. Interesting to see what the plans will be once we get our big guns back in the team (Cabaye, Tiote, Ba, Cisse). I just hope management and player also have the patience to work at it till they find the right combination. He has the ability to elevate us to another level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliGupter Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can't wait until next Saturday and Sessegnon can shut up a few mouthy people on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can't wait until next Saturday and Sessegnon can shut up a few mouthy people on here. It might happen this time PS: Worth a hover over that emoticon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not a great fan of Alan Pardew and his vision of football (and I think HBA really suffers from his coach approach) but I'll back him if Ben Arfa is on the bench against Aston Villa. Hatem deserves a little lesson after his two last games. Even if many of the newcastle players were s***, he should be able to do better than what he showed. He should be able to elevate the team level of play. He should grow up once and for all. He's very tiresome sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not a great fan of Alan Pardew and his vision of football (and I think HBA really suffers from his coach approach) but I'll back him if Ben Arfa is on the bench against Aston Villa. Hatem deserves a little lesson after his two last games. Even if many of the newcastle players were s***, he should be able to do better than what he showed. He should be able to elevate the team level of play. He should grow up once and for all. He's very tiresome sometimes. Jesus fucking wept... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chubby Jason Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not a great fan of Alan Pardew and his vision of football (and I think HBA really suffers from his coach approach) but I'll back him if Ben Arfa is on the bench against Aston Villa. Hatem deserves a little lesson after his two last games. Even if many of the newcastle players were s***, he should be able to do better than what he showed. He should be able to elevate the team level of play. He should grow up once and for all. He's very tiresome sometimes. Jesus f***ing wept... what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEN BEN BEN ARFA Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not a great fan of Alan Pardew and his vision of football (and I think HBA really suffers from his coach approach) but I'll back him if Ben Arfa is on the bench against Aston Villa. Hatem deserves a little lesson after his two last games. Even if many of the newcastle players were s***, he should be able to do better than what he showed. He should be able to elevate the team level of play. He should grow up once and for all. He's very tiresome sometimes. How I agree with you especially the cup match but I must say that this is not helped with the rod SHOLA I hope it will get better with the return of BA and Cissé tahia Tounes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not a great fan of Alan Pardew and his vision of football (and I think HBA really suffers from his coach approach) but I'll back him if Ben Arfa is on the bench against Aston Villa. Hatem deserves a little lesson after his two last games. Even if many of the newcastle players were s***, he should be able to do better than what he showed. He should be able to elevate the team level of play. He should grow up once and for all. He's very tiresome sometimes. Jesus f***ing wept... He has spent the last four years to waste his immense talent, letting players of his generation, less gifted (Benzema and Nasri), to surpass him. He's almost 25 years now and he's speaking a lot on the medias, saying he has changed, repeating his "philosphy" of football ("pass and move"), then doing the exact contrary on the pitch. Just stop talking Hatem and show us week in, week out, your exceptional talent ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's a good point in there somewhere. Somebody with Ben Arfa's talents should be able to lift us when the rest of the team's not playing well. If he's only any good when the rest of the team is good, what's the point really? You'd expect much more of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's too much in the way of expectation that he'll perform at the top of his game every single game from some of our fans at the moment. He's coming back after a very serious injury and he's still adjusting to the English game. Baffling to think that Obertan has more appearances to his name than HBA, despite the latter being here for 12 months more. I've seen enough since the Bolton game (what is it? 3 goals and 3 assists?) to give me heart that he'll develop into a top player for us. Blackburn was an off day for almost everyone and frankly it's scandalous we came away with 3 points given how badly we played. It's extremely harsh to single him out for criticism. Personally I think his attitude has been spot on. We've seen little of the l'enfant terrible we were promised when he signed, both on and off the pitch. He seems to accept he's got to fight for his place and he may not get on the pitch every game, so I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's too much in the way of expectation that he'll perform at the top of his game every single game from some of our fans at the moment. He's coming back after a very serious injury and he's still adjusting to the English game. Baffling to think that Obertan has more appearances to his name than HBA, despite the latter being here for 12 months more. I've seen enough since the Bolton game (what is it? 3 goals and 3 assists?) to give me heart that he'll develop into a top player for us. Blackburn was an off day for almost everyone and frankly it's scandalous we came away with 3 points given how badly we played. It's extremely harsh to single him out for criticism. Personally I think his attitude has been spot on. We've seen little of the l'enfant terrible we were promised when he signed, both on and off the pitch. He seems to accept he's got to fight for his place and he may not get on the pitch every game, so I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. This. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. I'm not talking about his character but about his football. He needs to understand that professional football is different than school playgrounds. He's more than capable to "purify" his football for the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's too much in the way of expectation that he'll perform at the top of his game every single game from some of our fans at the moment. He's coming back after a very serious injury and he's still adjusting to the English game. Baffling to think that Obertan has more appearances to his name than HBA, despite the latter being here for 12 months more. I've seen enough since the Bolton game (what is it? 3 goals and 3 assists?) to give me heart that he'll develop into a top player for us. Blackburn was an off day for almost everyone and frankly it's scandalous we came away with 3 points given how badly we played. It's extremely harsh to single him out for criticism. Personally I think his attitude has been spot on. We've seen little of the l'enfant terrible we were promised when he signed, both on and off the pitch. He seems to accept he's got to fight for his place and he may not get on the pitch every game, so I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's a good point in there somewhere. Somebody with Ben Arfa's talents should be able to lift us when the rest of the team's not playing well. If he's only any good when the rest of the team is good, what's the point really? You'd expect much more of him. Very few players are capable of carrying an entire team by themselves. HBA might turn into one of these players, but you're asking too much of him to do it after playing only 18 games in 18 months in a team that is missing it's main goal threat and arguably one of the best centre midfield pairings in the league. Ben Arfa is clearly a player that thrives when there's movement in front of him. Off the top of my heard I can think of his pass for Best against QPR and his through ball for Simpson against Brighton. Both genuinely brilliant passages of play that should've resulted in a goal. Unfortunately those moments are few and far between and will be until we get Ba and Cisse playing regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamunigeordie Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's too much in the way of expectation that he'll perform at the top of his game every single game from some of our fans at the moment. He's coming back after a very serious injury and he's still adjusting to the English game. Baffling to think that Obertan has more appearances to his name than HBA, despite the latter being here for 12 months more. I've seen enough since the Bolton game (what is it? 3 goals and 3 assists?) to give me heart that he'll develop into a top player for us. Blackburn was an off day for almost everyone and frankly it's scandalous we came away with 3 points given how badly we played. It's extremely harsh to single him out for criticism. Personally I think his attitude has been spot on. We've seen little of the l'enfant terrible we were promised when he signed, both on and off the pitch. He seems to accept he's got to fight for his place and he may not get on the pitch every game, so I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. Totally agree. Obertan got about 16 games in a row to prove himself at the start of the season. Am hoping that Pardew gives Hatem the same kind of chance to do so now and doesn't just drop him because he had a poor first half away at Blackburn - surely Pards himself will be excited at seeing what Hatem and the two Dembas in the same side will be like. I trust Pardew to put things into context and realise that Villa at home with our two main strikers back in the running is completely different to a midweek trip to Blackburn with Shola and Best up top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think he'll start on Sunday - I'd like to think he was withdrawn on Wednesday not only because we got fuck all of the ball as a team and that Perch was a better option in making us more solid, but also to save him for the game against Villa. Guess we'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. I'm not talking about his character but about his football. He needs to understand that professional football is different than school playgrounds. He's more than capable to "purify" his football for the better. I agree there are areas of his game he probably needs to keep a handle on more often. For example trying to beat half a dozen players instead of playing the easy pass backwards can be a right pain in the arse, however if he wasn't trying to go past his man we'd have half the fuckers on here whinging about that too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 With Demba and Papiss' movement in front of him I think we'll see him create more than in previous games. Judging from Pardew's comments today I think it's the return of Obertan on Sunday though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's too much in the way of expectation that he'll perform at the top of his game every single game from some of our fans at the moment. He's coming back after a very serious injury and he's still adjusting to the English game. Baffling to think that Obertan has more appearances to his name than HBA, despite the latter being here for 12 months more. I've seen enough since the Bolton game (what is it? 3 goals and 3 assists?) to give me heart that he'll develop into a top player for us. Blackburn was an off day for almost everyone and frankly it's scandalous we came away with 3 points given how badly we played. It's extremely harsh to single him out for criticism. Personally I think his attitude has been spot on. We've seen little of the l'enfant terrible we were promised when he signed, both on and off the pitch. He seems to accept he's got to fight for his place and he may not get on the pitch every game, so I've no idea where this notion he needs to grow up comes from. Ben Arfa comes with significant disadvantages, i.e. his tendency to give away the ball, his lack of defensive support etc. What's supposed to cancel out these disadvantages is supposed to be his unparalleled flair and natural ability that can produce moments of brilliance. As such, his production needs to be held to a higher standard than others. He's the kind of player you'd expect to turn things around when the others aren't preforming well. If he is just expected to play well when the rest of the team does and is immune to criticism when he plays badly, (he was much worse than most of his teammates were against Blackburn mind,) what's the point? Obviously he's better than Obertan, but Obertan is fucking terrible. This guy needs to be held to higher standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 With Demba and Papiss' movement in front of him I think we'll see him create more than in previous games. Judging from Pardew's comments today I think it's the return of Obertan on Sunday though. It's the return of Obertan until the end of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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