Hatem Ben Arfa

[alexf]

I thought Robben wouldn't succeed under Pep as well but not just his work rate.... he never passes

 

But fair play to him i was wrong and he's been a star this season.

 

On Ben Arfa yes he does need to work harder.... i'm not really talking about Gouffran-like here but pressing the ball and forcing opponents into mistakes would be a start.

 

Its not like he's not capable of it either as he did it during the end of the season we finished 5th to great effect.

 

But still Pardew has to figure something out because we can't have our most talented player on the bench every week,

 

Don't think he is physically capable of putting in a shift like Gouffran. He's no where near the fitness levels Gouff is these days. The last few times i've seen him you could see he looked knackered after a run forward.

[Mole_Toonfan]

More than the work he has to figure out how to be more effective at attacking. When to pass and when to run. He doesn't think 'how can i get the team attackking here' he thinks 'what can i do on my own' far too much of the time. Actually negates his impact.

 

Agree with this.

 

Yep same here.

[Rich]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/english/gouffran-epitomises-pardew-s-newcastle-masterplan-1-3172145

 

Pardew’s masterplan was based, initially at least, on sheer energy-sapping hard work, and no-one personified that more than 27-year-old Gouffran.

 

Pardew said: “When you look at sides like Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich, you say to yourself okay, your wide players nowadays need to work.

 

“They need to work really, really hard at the top level and you have to put him in that category. My goodness me, he worked his socks off. He couldn’t move at the end when I subbed him, he literally couldn’t even walk out. It’s that kind of commitment, I think, our fans love. We are a working-class city and they love flair but what they really, really want to see is that hard working grind and a day’s work. My goodness me, he did a day’s work today and more.”

 

Some words for Ben Arfa there. Before anyone complains, if the players at the top teams can do the defensive work so can Ben Arfa.

 

Yeah without a doubt, Robben like a different player at Bayern. Think it was Sewelly i had telling me he wouldn't cut it with Pep because he doesn't work for the team or something along those lines. His work rate has been much improved for Bayern.

 

 

He's looked very unselfish in the games I've seen as well, which has amazed me. Definite lessons to be learned, as there should be anyway if you're getting dropped for Shola Ameobi.

[Ste]

I think sometimes fans assume that because you can beat a full back with pace and trickery, you should play through the centre and run at the centre halves to get through on goal. When you play central, especially in that number 10 role that people were calling for him to play in, decisiveness is key and Hatem is as indecisive a player as I've seen, Obertan aside.

 

Ben Arfa is most dangerous on the right wing but he does have to protect Debuchy a lot better as we've seen just how much better Debuchy looks with a winger in front of him who's willing to give and take and put in a defensive shift as well.

 

There has to be a clear gameplan with Ben Arfa, centrally his impact is negated and out wide he's a threat but exposes a full back. As pointed out above, he's shown he can do it so I don't know why he's suddenly stopped, I don't think it's been passed down to him by the coaching staff to do it otherwise he wouldn't be dropped imo.

[Andy]

I have a feeling we'll sell Hatem in January and replace him with a striker. He clearly doesn't fit Pardew's definition of a wide-man (I do agree with him to an extent that in the modern game work-ethic is a big part of success in that position of the pitch, ability alone doesn't really cut it anymore due to the more expansive nature of the full-back role) and he's woefully ineffective in an attacking sense in any position where work-rate is deemed less important... It might not be a widely popular opinion but I think we've looked more coherent as a team when he hasn't played; on his day he's a brilliant individual and I'd love to see him use his talent more effectively and more consistently, but the odd brilliant individual display doesn't counteract the fact that, for whatever reason (be it as a result of his own flaws or a lack of understanding with his teammates), we don't look half as fluid or compact with him on the pitch. 

 

If Pardew can't get the best out of him - and I don't think he can - we might as well cash-in while his stock is still high and bring in someone more suited to our preferred system.

[BrettNUFC]

I have a feeling we'll sell Hatem in January

 

This gets mentioned every transfer window! 

[Andy]

I have a feeling we'll sell Hatem in January

 

This gets mentioned every transfer window! 

 

It does, but at the moment I feel he isn't as valuable to Pardew as he has been previously. We'll see I guess.

[ponsaelius]

Are people championing Gouffran and Sissoko wide in a 4-4-2 long term based on that Chelsea game?

[Weezertron]

Pardew needs to decide what his formation/philosophy is before entertaining the sale of Benny.

 

 

[SiLvOR]

I have a feeling we'll sell Hatem in January and replace him with a striker. He clearly doesn't fit Pardew's definition of a wide-man (I do agree with him to an extent that in the modern game work-ethic is a big part of success in that position of the pitch, ability alone doesn't really cut it anymore due to the more expansive nature of the full-back role) and he's woefully ineffective in an attacking sense in any position where work-rate is deemed less important... It might not be a widely popular opinion but I think we've looked more coherent as a team when he hasn't played; on his day he's a brilliant individual and I'd love to see him use his talent more effectively and more consistently, but the odd brilliant individual display doesn't counteract the fact that, for whatever reason (be it as a result of his own flaws or a lack of understanding with his teammates), we don't look half as fluid or compact with him on the pitch. 

 

If Pardew can't get the best out of him - and I don't think he can - we might as well cash-in while his stock is still high and bring in someone more suited to our preferred system.

 

I'm far from a Pardew lover, but one of things he did do was manage to get Ben Arfa to be brilliant in the second half of the 5th season. He installed a work rate into Hatem which made him a better player, I think the quote he came out with was something like "It's my world when we haven't got the ball, his world when he has". Something like that. Anyway the point is I think Pardew can get the best out of him, he just needs to remind Hatem of his duties.

[ponsaelius]

Pardew needs to decide what his formation/philosophy is before entertaining the sale of Benny.

 

He changes the formation/philosophy/system week to week, game to game, even multiple times within games. He simply isn't going to settle on a system, ever and we will continue to lurch from game to game being wildly inconsistent hoping his ingenius gameday management can pay off. That's just the way its always going to be, we simply don't and won't ever have a set style of play like Swansea or Arsenal or Man Utd do as long as Pardew is in charge. He manages each game individually, look at all the work we put into preparing what the opposition have to offer and setting up to counter it. That happens every week, it's all about trying to get the result on the day rather than anything long term.

 

The system on Saturday worked in keeping it tight with two banks of four and knicking the goal later in the game, but Gouffran and Sissoko wide in a 4-4-2 is an absolute nonsense long term and will be scrapped the moment we look like a mess. Probably at home to one of the weaker sides we have after Spurs.

[tmonkey]

Meh. Personally think folk are getting carried away with one win at home to an aging Mourinho side where we out-worked them for the entire game (playing horrible "football" for 65 minutes in doing so) and by Pardew's admission got the lucky breaks that we wanted. Again, this was just another in a long list of "cup finals" for us where the team competed and matched one of the top sides.

 

Ben Arfa is our most talented footballer, and we need to stick by him like any well-run club does when its star player hits a slump in form. Put him back on the right wing, get him tracking back like he has done for the most part of the past 2 seasons (something that many folk on here were willing to praise Pardew about), and then go from there. Not drop him for s*** like Jonas, Obertan, Shola, Sissoko out wide, and even, dare I say it, Gouffran (I think if he continues as a wide midfielder he'll get his fair share of critics once we get to games where we need more than sheer work rate, though I'd be happy to be wrong).

 

However, going back to a previous post, I really suspect he may have been tapped up, and this is the reasoning behind why he's not playing in his "default" RW position. Has Hatem even said anything in the media recently, especially given that he has been dropped? You'd expect him to be complaining in the press, issuing "come get me pleas", or at least explaining things (sucking up to the boss by saying he'll try harder, etc etc). If we're trying to sell him, why bench him? The other logical explanation is that Pardew and the club are trying to use this winter period as an opportunity to have him in and out of the team so as to keep him fresh for the second half of the season - and Brazil 2014 if he manages to make the French squad. Though in current form, that theory is looking a little far fetched.

[Wullie]

Pardew needs to decide what his formation/philosophy is before entertaining the sale of Benny.

 

He changes the formation/philosophy/system week to week, game to game, even multiple times within games. He simply isn't going to settle on a system, ever and we will continue to lurch from game to game being wildly inconsistent hoping his ingenius gameday management can pay off. That's just the way its always going to be, we simply don't and won't ever have a set style of play like Swansea or Arsenal or Man Utd do as long as Pardew is in charge. He manages each game individually, look at all the work we put into preparing what the opposition have to offer and setting up to counter it. That happens every week, it's all about trying to get the result on the day rather than anything long term.

 

The system on Saturday worked in keeping it tight with two banks of four and knicking the goal later in the game, but Gouffran and Sissoko wide in a 4-4-2 is an absolute nonsense long term and will be scrapped the moment we look like a mess. Probably at home to one of the weaker sides we have after Spurs.

 

[Mick]

I wonder how good Ginola and Robert would have been for us if Keegan and Sir Bobby had hammered them for not defending?  We've got a negative manager who doesn't know what to do with our flair player and people agree with it.

[Weezertron]

Pardew needs to decide what his formation/philosophy is before entertaining the sale of Benny.

 

He changes the formation/philosophy/system week to week, game to game, even multiple times within games. He simply isn't going to settle on a system, ever and we will continue to lurch from game to game being wildly inconsistent hoping his ingenius gameday management can pay off. That's just the way its always going to be, we simply don't and won't ever have a set style of play like Swansea or Arsenal or Man Utd do as long as Pardew is in charge. He manages each game individually, look at all the work we put into preparing what the opposition have to offer and setting up to counter it. That happens every week, it's all about trying to get the result on the day rather than anything long term.

 

The system on Saturday worked in keeping it tight with two banks of four and knicking the goal later in the game, but Gouffran and Sissoko wide in a 4-4-2 is an absolute nonsense long term and will be scrapped the moment we look like a mess. Probably at home to one of the weaker sides we have after Spurs.

 

exactly. Benny is our only 1st team player capable of giving us any width. I don't know how he can assemble a squad or have an idea about what he wants that squad to be, when he requires them to play in every style possible. It's fucked.

[ponsaelius]

Meh. Personally think folk are getting carried away with one win at home to an aging Mourinho side where we out-worked them for the entire game (playing horrible "football" for 65 minutes in doing so) and by Pardew's admission got the lucky breaks that we wanted. Again, this was just another in a long list of "cup finals" for us where the team competed and matched one of the top sides.

 

Ben Arfa is our most talented footballer, and we need to stick by him like any well-run club does when its star player hits a slump in form. Put him back on the right wing, get him tracking back like he has done for the most part of the past 2 seasons (something that many folk on here were willing to praise Pardew about), and then go from there. Not drop him for s*** like Jonas, Obertan, Shola, Sissoko out wide, and even, dare I say it, Gouffran (I think if he continues as a wide midfielder he'll get his fair share of critics once we get to games where we need more than sheer work rate, though I'd be happy to be wrong).

 

Exactly, Gouffran will definitely start getting criticism if we stick with him on the wing. As will Sissoko (who IMO was poor up until the game opened up later on). Neither are wingers in a flat 4-4-2. You can't play a 4-4-2 with no wide players because not only are you leaving yourself outnumbered in the centre but you're playing with more less no width which is the entire point of playing a 4 man midfield.

 

In a microcosm Saturday was great because it worked. We kept it 0-0 and then (unbelievably) got a goal from a set piece and suddenly they were desperate. If they'd got the first goal? Roles reversed and they'd have destroyed us on the break once we were chasing it.

 

Gouffran's a forward for me, who can also do a job wide in a front 3. Sissoko I'll be honest to having no clue what his best position is, but I'm fairly certain orthodox winger is not it.

[Rich]

I love a bit of Hatem and would be distraught to lose him, but there is no arguing the fact that he needs to up his work rate again.

 

He played some of his best football when he was doing all the gritty stuff in addition to what he normally does and under this manager it's the only way he'll make himself undroppable.

[Mick]

I love a bit of Hatem and would be distraught to lose him, but there is no arguing the fact that he needs to up his work rate again.

 

He played some of his best football when he was doing all the gritty stuff in addition to what he normally does and under this manager it's the only way he'll make himself undroppable.

 

He's played his best football for us on the right and moving him away from that position isn't helping him, it's moronic to do so.

[Darth Crooks]

Depressing when you think that the likes of Gosling, Obertan and Shola can just waltz into the fray and almost any random point regardless of anonymity; yet whether Hatem Ben Arfa is something that really bakes our master tactician's noodle

[Rich]

I love a bit of Hatem and would be distraught to lose him, but there is no arguing the fact that he needs to up his work rate again.

 

He played some of his best football when he was doing all the gritty stuff in addition to what he normally does and under this manager it's the only way he'll make himself undroppable.

 

He's played his best football for us on the right and moving him away from that position isn't helping him, it's moronic to do so.

 

Totally agree, but he got moved because his work rate dropped and he was "responsible" for a couple of goals. If tracking a man now and again is the difference between having him in the team or not I reckon he should just do it.

 

He was winning the ball back himself at times when he was on the right previously, which was delightful.

[ponsaelius]

He won us the games at Villa and home to Fulham single handedly. He'll be back in the side soon enough when flavour of the week system is abandoned and we need him to save our arses.

 

He was playing well at right wing, had a bad 45 at Everton so was subbed and then dropped for the next game where we won convincingly. Only to randomly return playing through the middle. just making it up as he goes along, man.

[Rich]

He won us the games at Villa and home to Fulham single handedly. He'll be back in the side soon enough when flavour of the week system is abandoned and we need him to save our arses.

 

He was playing well at right wing, had a bad 45 at Everton so was subbed and then dropped for the next game where we won convincingly. Only to randomly return playing through the middle. just making it up as he goes along, man.

 

It was the Hull game that did for him, he got switched left against Everton.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I love a bit of Hatem and would be distraught to lose him, but there is no arguing the fact that he needs to up his work rate again.

 

He played some of his best football when he was doing all the gritty stuff in addition to what he normally does and under this manager it's the only way he'll make himself undroppable.

 

Indeed.

 

I do wonder if they're trying to protect him because of his injury record.

[Beren]

I love a bit of Hatem and would be distraught to lose him, but there is no arguing the fact that he needs to up his work rate again.

 

He played some of his best football when he was doing all the gritty stuff in addition to what he normally does and under this manager it's the only way he'll make himself undroppable.

 

He's played his best football for us on the right and moving him away from that position isn't helping him, it's moronic to do so.

 

Totally agree, but he got moved because his work rate dropped and he was "responsible" for a couple of goals. If tracking a man now and again is the difference between having him in the team or not I reckon he should just do it.

 

He was winning the ball back himself at times when he was on the right previously, which was delightful.

 

I think HBA has been chastised unfairly here. HBA hasn't been particularly lazy compared to the rest of the team, but he's played in games where the team haven't pressed as a team, they've pressed sporadically as individuals and it's been ineffective/knackered them out.

 

Difference on Saturday was that everyone was doing it. Don't see why HBA wouldn't operate fine within a system where the onus wasn't on him to press by himself. He's not a lazy guy, I don't think.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

He won us the games at Villa and home to Fulham single handedly. He'll be back in the side soon enough when flavour of the week system is abandoned and we need him to save our arses.