Papiss Cissé

[Cronky]

He came here, he scored a shedload of goals, and then he gets displaced from his position by a player who has threatened to leave if he doesn't get the role that he wants.

 

Psychologically, that's a difficult blow to overcome and today it looked like it had really got to him. He did as well as he could in that role and still (rightly) got taken off.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Proper harsh expecting a centre forward to play out wide, they certainly wouldn't be a selfish/greedy t*** to be p*ssed off about it.

 

Proper harsh that a player played well (considering) and got subbed off, while another who played poorly stayed on.

[Cajun]

No I completely agree, the sooner we get that pesky goalscorer out of our team the better off we will be, bloody goalscorers, who needs them!?

[Wullie]

Proper harsh expecting a centre forward to play out wide, they certainly wouldn't be a selfish/greedy twat to be pissed off about it.

 

Depends if they've played most of their career wide on the left of a forward three really.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

No I completely agree, the sooner we get that pesky goalscorer out of our team the better off we will be, bloody goalscorers, who needs them!?

 

Why do have to push this line all the time? I rate Ba highly, but its possible he can play badly.

[Gallowgate Toon]

No I completely agree, the sooner we get that pesky goalscorer out of our team the better off we will be, bloody goalscorers, who needs them!?

 

Or how about when he's having a poor game, you simply sub him off and leave the one that looks up for it on, who also happens to be a goalscorer?

[Cajun]

Push what line? Never said he didn't play badly. I just desperately hope we get rid of our top goalscorer for the last two seasons as soon as we can because he is a disruptive influence

[Lotus]

Cisse doesn't fit for what we trying to do here. Wrong type of player.

[Tiresias]

Cisse doesn't fit for what we trying to do here. Wrong type of player.

 

?

 

Doesn't fit pardew's hoofball but does fit what he claims we want to do

[Tachikoma]

Cisse doesn't fit for what we trying to do here. Wrong type of player.

 

What are we trying to do anyway?

[Shak]

Push what line? Never said he didn't play badly. I just desperately hope we get rid of our top goalscorer for the last two seasons as soon as we can because he is a disruptive influence

 

I'm not sure you're being entirely serious, but anyway.

 

The difference is that Ba is well able to play effectively out on the flank while Cisse looks completely unsuited to the role. When Cisse has played out wide he's looked hopeless, while when Ba plays there he looks very comfortable in the role and has helped the team play some of it's best football. The only thing missing from his performances was the goals.

 

I'd be very confident that should we move Cisse back into the middle of a front three then the goals would start flowing again. Not at the same ridiculous rate he was banging them in last year, but play him in that role and he wouldn't be looking like the donkey he's come across as in the last few months. Would he have scored as many as Ba this year? Hard to know, but I doubt he'd have been far off. We wouldn't have had an absolute passenger in the team either (which is what Cisse has been all year), and it would also have allowed Ben Arfa play in a more advanced role than he's been finding himself in all year.

 

But yeah, as long as Demba gets more goals for himself then that's the main thing, and anyone who has a problem with his insistence on playing central hurting the team as a whole is obviously a moron!

 

(I realise that that last sentence is patronizing, but no more so than your "let's get rid of our best goalscorer!!" posts tbh)

[Guest tollemache]

tbh I think Cisse on form, like Ba, is quite a good hoofball player. They're both great at dealing with early balls into the box. Normally.

 

As for what to do about the pairing... I don't think Ba should be a sacred cow just because the goals are coming through him right now. We've seen that Cisse can bang them in if he feels like it. If Ba is disrupting things, then selling him while he's hot and getting an alright fee for a player whose knee is liable to explode and who we signed for free would be fine by me. Ideally we'd keep him for another couple of years and then sell him at his peak a la Wenger but maybe that peak is now.

 

What I'd like to see is HBA playing off Cisse, or in behind Cisse and someone else, and I'm going to resist the urge here to go on about the clear, ready-made 4-3-1-2 we have on our hands. Either way, put HBA in the middle of the pitch with license to do what he wants and whoever is in front of him will get goals.

[Darth Crooks]

Thing is Ba got goals when he was out wide, with Cisse getting loads as well. More players scoring = more goals = more success from attacking play. I do believe Ba is an ego and AP's handling of it is weak. We looked fat more of a threat with those in the positions they were last season. Either that or Cisse can only go Super Saiyan from Januarys onwards.

[Jayson]

Its far easier to say on here than do in reality. Reality is hes played the same position as Ba & had the same service & Ba has been the one excelling. Thats down to their individual movement & finishing, little else. To then deprioritize the striker whos clearly firing, means you're risking his attachment to the club, his form, his motivation on the basis that it will help the guy who isnt firing get back into form. Which isnt guaranteed & could actually just further nullify us upfront.

[Cajun]

Its far easier to say on here than do in reality. Reality is hes played the same position as Ba & had the same service & Ba has been the one excelling. Thats down to their individual movement & finishing, little else. To then deprioritize the striker whos clearly firing, means you're risking his attachment to the club, his form, his motivation on the basis that it will help the guy who isnt firing get back into form. Which isnt guaranteed & could actually just further nullify us upfront.

 

Spot on.

 

Plus didn't Ba score one goal in something like 16 games out wide. That isn't both of them scoring.

[madras]

Its far easier to say on here than do in reality. Reality is hes played the same position as Ba & had the same service & Ba has been the one excelling. Thats down to their individual movement & finishing, little else. To then deprioritize the striker whos clearly firing, means you're risking his attachment to the club, his form, his motivation on the basis that it will help the guy who isnt firing get back into form. Which isnt guaranteed & could actually just further nullify us upfront.

 

Spot on.

 

Plus didn't Ba score one goal in something like 16 games out wide. That isn't both of them scoring.

however the team as a whole played much better with ba out wide which is more important than which individual is playing well or scoring.

[Guest neesy111]

I think that Cisse should have stayed on the pitch yesterday and not Ba tbh.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Its far easier to say on here than do in reality. Reality is hes played the same position as Ba & had the same service & Ba has been the one excelling. Thats down to their individual movement & finishing, little else. To then deprioritize the striker whos clearly firing, means you're risking his attachment to the club, his form, his motivation on the basis that it will help the guy who isnt firing get back into form. Which isnt guaranteed & could actually just further nullify us upfront.

 

Spot on.

 

Plus didn't Ba score one goal in something like 16 games out wide. That isn't both of them scoring.

 

But Ba HAS played out wide a fair bit in his career and scored regularly there, Cisse's never been that type of player. It's not like Ba didn't chances there last year either, he just didn't finish them off. In my opinion they should both be on the pitch rotating but they need someone with a quality delivery too, it's what they thrive on, if that link's not there, then it's all a bit pointless, which is what we saw yesterday.

[Jack Flash]

Still can't believe that 4-3-3 is seen as our only hope. A tactic where one of our lethal strikers is rendered useless is fawned upon because we played well for a few games last year.

 

Other tactics are available and any half decent manager would try some other ideas to get these 2 going simultaneously.

[madras]

Still can't believe that 4-3-3 is seen as our only hope. A tactic where one of our lethal strikers is rendered useless is fawned upon because we played well for a few games last year.

 

Other tactics are available and any half decent manager would try some other ideas to get these 2 going simultaneously.

i agree to a point, however you'd think if you try something and it doesn't work you'd then revert to what you know does work to steady things before trying something else.

[Cajun]

As I have said before, when Cisse has shown he will take the goalscoring burden off Ba I could accept Ba shifting out wide (although that would be harsh on him). Cisse is playing out of position now but hasn't for the majority of the season.

 

Ba being able to play out wide has been massively exaggerated due to our poor form. Between him wanting to play in his natural position and Pardew being 'a shit manager' we can blame all our problems on two things which is easier to accept than the multitude of failings we have had this season from disciplinary problems, injuries and lack of form from key players.

 

Can't get my head around the one player actually performing getting the blame but I suppose that's football

[Jack Flash]

Still can't believe that 4-3-3 is seen as our only hope. A tactic where one of our lethal strikers is rendered useless is fawned upon because we played well for a few games last year.

 

Other tactics are available and any half decent manager would try some other ideas to get these 2 going simultaneously.

i agree to a point, however you'd think if you try something and it doesn't work you'd then revert to what you know does work to steady things before trying something else.

 

It only worked for a few games and swiftly ended with a 4-0 hammering at Wigan. That game in particular has definitely poisoned Pardew against attacking football/tactics ever since imo and it's killing us.

[Greg]

Still can't believe that 4-3-3 is seen as our only hope. A tactic where one of our lethal strikers is rendered useless is fawned upon because we played well for a few games last year.

 

Other tactics are available and any half decent manager would try some other ideas to get these 2 going simultaneously.

i agree to a point, however you'd think if you try something and it doesn't work you'd then revert to what you know does work to steady things before trying something else.

 

It only worked for a few games and swiftly ended with a 4-0 hammering at Wigan. That game in particular has definitely poisoned Pardew against attacking football/tactics ever since imo and it's killing us.

 

We didn't play 433 at Wigan.

[Jack Flash]

Still can't believe that 4-3-3 is seen as our only hope. A tactic where one of our lethal strikers is rendered useless is fawned upon because we played well for a few games last year.

 

Other tactics are available and any half decent manager would try some other ideas to get these 2 going simultaneously.

i agree to a point, however you'd think if you try something and it doesn't work you'd then revert to what you know does work to steady things before trying something else.

 

It only worked for a few games and swiftly ended with a 4-0 hammering at Wigan. That game in particular has definitely poisoned Pardew against attacking football/tactics ever since imo and it's killing us.

 

We didn't play 433 at Wigan.

 

He changed it from that when we were getting battered and completely overran in every area then went back to it in the second half.

[Darth Crooks]

Whatever you believe in terms of dressing room politics and striking focal points; there is something that stinks about the way this lad is being utilised and Pardew has to take flak for that. I find it hard to believe that there is no way both these top class strikers are incapable of both scoring goals when played in the same side.