Papiss Cissé

[Skeletor]

They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him).

 

I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had.

 

Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows.

 

"thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing.

 

I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly

 

I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals.

 

Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so?

 

I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there.

 

 

 

We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position.

 

We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do.  Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself.  Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season.  FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out.

 

appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form.

 

Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider?

 

Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before.

 

And Cisse went on a shit hot goal scoring run. Surely if you believe Ba will stop scoring based on previous evidence it's reasonable to believe Cisse will pick up his goal scoring form again.

 

Not really, it's not as if Cisse has been out on the wing all season. He has had the chances Ba had but Ba is the one putting them away while Cisse has one (one kicked off him yadda, yadda).

 

 

 

My main issue is that the team has looked dysfunctional in a 4-4-2 except for Ba this season whereas the team looked very good in a 4-3-3 with Cisse in the middle and Ba out on the left last season. Ba has scored 11 goals yet we're 14th and struggling to pick up points. That suggests the team as a whole isn't working with the way we're currently set up and Ba is the only one profiting from this current set up as perhaps he's the only one suited to playing this way.

[Ronaldo]

Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that

 

Nothing, as ironic as it is we talk about Ba doing what is best for the team but in the same context we can't afford to bend over backwards trying to do what's best for Cisse. We can't change the formation based on what worked for a few games last season, Ba is scoring, Cisse isn't. We are in poor form enough as it is, hoping Cisse finds that form again is too much of a gamble at this time.

 

Not sure it constitutes a gamble given that every time Cisse's played centrally in a 3 he's done the business and we've functioned well as a team.

 

Do you honestly believe he has performed to the best of his ability this season?

 

Don't believe he's had the chance to, ludicrously.

[Skirge]

They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him).

 

I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had.

 

Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows.

 

"thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing.

 

I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly

 

I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals.

 

Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so?

 

I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there.

 

 

 

We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position.

 

We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do.  Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself.  Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season.  FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out.

 

appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form.

 

Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider?

 

Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before.

 

And Cisse went on a shit hot goal scoring run. Surely if you believe Ba will stop scoring based on previous evidence it's reasonable to believe Cisse will pick up his goal scoring form again.

 

Not really, it's not as if Cisse has been out on the wing all season. He has had the chances Ba had but Ba is the one putting them away while Cisse has one (one kicked off him yadda, yadda).

 

 

 

My main issue is that the team has looked dysfunctional in a 4-4-2 except for Ba this season whereas the team looked very good in a 4-3-3 with Cisse in the middle and Ba out on the left last season. Ba has scored 11 goals yet we're 14th and struggling to pick up points. That suggests the team as a whole isn't working with the way we're currently set up and Ba is the only one profiting from this current set up as perhaps he's the only one suited to playing this way.

 

This is why its an issue, its working for Ba not for the team so something has to change and Ba has to see this and adapt.

[cp40]

Never known as much difficulty in fitting two strikers into the team, its as if one of them doesnt want it to work.

 

 

 

[Cajun]

We were doing okay before Cisse arrived but Ba is the greedy fucker.

[Skeletor]

Never known as much difficulty in fitting two strikers into the team, its as if one of them doesnt want it to work.

 

 

 

 

They'd probably look less useless as a partnership if we had wide players who could create any thing. Not that I believe they would be the best partnership as they are the same kind of player.

[Interpolic]

It's simply a case of what works and what doesn't for me Jon, in an ideal world I'd have liked us to have signed 1 or even 2 versatile forwards in the summer with Cisse and Ba battling for the central position and occasionally filling in out wide.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

We were doing okay before Cisse arrived but Ba is the greedy f***er.

 

The team played better and won games with "panache" after Cisse's arrival.

[Skirge]

We were doing okay before Cisse arrived but Ba is the greedy fucker.

 

Think they don't get one?

looked close last season but this season its like Cisse is a little cousin the Demba can't stand, Tiote is Cisse's best mate at the club not Ba. You would think they would have a vested interest in finding a way to play together for their international careers.

In a 4-4-2 they just seem to get in each others way and try to occupy the same space but you would thibk this is an issue that could be fixed on the training ground.

[Cajun]

It's simply a case of what works and what doesn't for me Jon, in an ideal world I'd have liked us to have signed 1 or even 2 versatile forwards in the summer with Cisse and Ba battling for the central position and occasionally filling in out wide.

 

[Wullie]

Ba is scoring goals but he's not playing all that well generally - I thought he was awful yesterday. He's certainly not playing as well as he was in the first half of last season and the team is suffering for it. I don't think he suits the central role in a three that much.

[Skirge]

Ba is scoring goals but he's not playing all that well generally - I thought he was awful yesterday. He's certainly not playing as well as he was in the first half of last season and the team is suffering for it. I don't think he suits the central role in a three that much.

 

He was poor yesterday but funny enough the few times he looked a threat was when he drifted out to the left

[themanupstairs]

He's already scored at Old Trafford once this season. Will do it again coming off the bench.

[midds]

The manager should be putting the interests of the club ahead of keeping individual players happy. He's paid to manage the players and get the best XI on the park in a formation which best suits the team.

 

If Pardew hasn't got the bollocks to do it then fuck him.

 

The club comes first.

[ponsaelius]

A decent coach and somebody who has some authority would have had us playing a flexible, functioning front 3 all season with Cisse through the middle and Ba left. There is no reason they can't both score and create goals in that system if given the right platform and freedom.

 

As much as I went fucking mental when Shola scored yesterday there is something seriously depressing that we instantly looked better with the 31 year old, perma-injured, never-been-good-enough physical lump on the pitch to hoof the ball to rather than with the excellent striker we spent £10 million on. It's an unbelievable waste of resources.

[Mick]

I agree 100% with the last 2 posts, unless somebody has posted something I don't agree with while I'm typing this.

[Guest neesy111]

Good posts by Sewelly and Midds.

[Skirge]

Good posts by Sewelly and Midds.

 

Both are 100% spot on the ONLY thing I can say in Pards favour is it must be so hard when he has a weak squad and no real belief that he would get reinforcements should he out either Ba or Cisse.

Keeping his top players happy has to be a priority, other managers don't have to worry as much about it.

[Dave]

Was just looking at .cock from when we signed him:

 

Newcastle United manager Alan Pardew said: "Ever since Andy Carroll left, Papiss was my first choice in the specific role he has at the end of the play.

 

"He is a finisher with an already-established CV in the Bundesliga, where we have monitored him for the best part of two years.

 

Wide right.

[Dr Venkman]

Good posts by Sewelly and Midds.

 

Both are 100% spot on the ONLY thing I can say in Pards favour is it must be so hard when he has a weak squad and no real belief that he would get reinforcements should he out either Ba or Cisse.

Keeping his top players happy has to be a priority, other managers don't have to worry as much about it.

 

I understand why Pardew's pandering to Ba, it's because he's concerned that he won't be replaced properly. He still shouldn't be doing it though, the team performance should always come first.

[Rich]

Was just looking at .cock from when we signed him:

 

Newcastle United manager Alan Pardew said: "Ever since Andy Carroll left, Papiss was my first choice in the specific role he has at the end of the play.

 

"He is a finisher with an already-established CV in the Bundesliga, where we have monitored him for the best part of two years.

 

Wide right.

 

It's probably been said, but it's like playing Andy Cole wide-right for fuck's sake.

 

As Wullie has definitely mentioned, if he has to play wide then why isn't it on the left in the role Ba played at times last season?

 

I just don't know what we're attempting to do.

[themanupstairs]

 

Stupid question alert!

 

Any chance playing on the right could take away his goal scoring ability somewhat? His natural instinct will always be there I suppose, but what about confidence in his own movement and finishing ability? We've seen how players like Alan Smith who was a half decent striker only for that to be completely removed from his game.

[Unbelievable]

For all this talk about greedy Demba Ba and tactically clueless Alan Pardew, Papiss Cisse could really help himself first and foremost by starting to score a few goals and looking a genuine goal threat. I'm not having all this talk that he's somehow a massive victim of circumstances beyond his control. In all honesty, he's been piss poor (by his standards) from the start of pre-season both in terms of movement and finishing.

[Ronaldo]

He was virtually playing in the Milburn Stand in the first half yesterday, man. What chance does he have of getting opportunities to score when he's out there and rubbish like Jonas and the defensive lot are in the side creating nowt all game?

[Wullie]

For all this talk about greedy Demba Ba and tactically clueless Alan Pardew, Papiss Cisse could really help himself first and foremost by starting to score a few goals and looking a genuine goal threat. I'm not having all this talk that he's somehow a massive victim of circumstances beyond his control. In all honesty, he's been piss poor (by his standards) from the start of pre-season both in terms of movement and finishing.

 

How can he look a genuine goal threat from where he's playing? I know that goal against Chelsea was good but it's a bit much to expect it as standard. He spent the first twenty minutes on Saturday so wide he was practically standing in the middle of Barrack Road.

 

EDIT: Ronaldo nicking my gags ffs.