Wallace Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I wonder who made the decision for him not to travel. As it is pre-season, I don't see why they cannot let him wear unbranded kit for the time being. The matches are not being televised and there will only be still photos from the training sessions where they can just ignore him. If he ends up staying, he won't have the levels of fitness as other players so will be trying to catch up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It does make Papiss look silly when all the other muslims have agreed to wear the sirt, it has to be said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Oh joy. Our only decent forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It does make Papiss look silly when all the other muslims have agreed to wear the sirt, it has to be said. Eh? All Muslims are expected to have exactly the same views are they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 With Cisse, however, his objection to Wonga is said to be on the basis of his religion. His religion finds money lending FULL STOP objectionable and unacceptable, so if he's using Wonga as an example of an unacceptable company to have on his shirt, then surely he must also object to any other commercial lender, and that wasn't the case for him last year. I think that's well summed up. I'm no expert on Islam or interpretations thereof but if you are taking a principled stance then by definition that principle must be consistent. Wonga are not a bank. It's entirely possible to reconcile your religious beliefs with an understanding that what a high street bank does, I imagine it's a completely different beast to have to do the same with a company that pray exclusively on the financially vulnerable and make a fucking bundle out of doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Anyways, I think the hold up with our transfers might be due to some of these things needing to be resolved i.e. Papiss and Cabaye situations. If we lose these two we'd probably look to spend more on higher calibre players to replace them. Who knows? Something just needs to happen at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It does make Papiss look silly when all the other muslims have agreed to wear the sirt, it has to be said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 If they allow him to take the pitch, even in a friendly, in an unsponsored shirt while others are wearing a sponsored shirt, it will have set a precedent that other players can and will use against the club in the future, for varying moral and religious beliefs. It's like the old saying "lie down with dogs, rise up with fleas" - once we as a club got into bed with this outfit, there were always going to be knock-on effects. Bad press, yes. Moral outcry, yes. I must admit I didn't see this one coming, but the club must have known it was a risk doing business with Wonga. We are by far the biggest club to have done so and attract the most attention as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It's clear what Virgin Money do when making a profit on sale isn't no where near to the profit Wonga does a sale. That's the biggest difference the extreme scale of it and that is what will be the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Get the feeling he is being badly advised over this and this is not his own opinion and its going to hurt his career. I respect anyone making a strand for what they believe in however its making him look a little daft as all of the other Muslim players are wearing the kit. Wonder what Ba would have done had he still been here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 From one farce to the next. Why isn't this resolved yet? Actually starting to harm the prospects of the team now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It's dangerous expressing opinion on a religious issue but I just wish Cisse would drop this. Starting to get worried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Get the feeling he is being badly advised over this and this is not his own opinion and its going to hurt his career. I respect anyone making a strand for what they believe in however its making him look a little daft as all of the other Muslim players are wearing the kit. Wonder what Ba would have done had he still been here. That doesn't count for a single thing. You have no idea what are the other players beliefs are other than that they are muslim? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I said this 5 weeks ago, this needed to be solved before he came back to pre-season but the fucking clowns running the club obviously don't have a clue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 If they allow him to take the pitch, even in a friendly, in an unsponsored shirt while others are wearing a sponsored shirt, it will have set a precedent that other players can and will use against the club in the future, for varying moral and religious beliefs. Sevilla and 888 allowed Freddie Kanoute to wear a sponsor-free shirt and it didn't cause them a great deal of harm. If any player has a stong moral objection it would manifest itself anyway regardless of whether a precedent is set here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 From one farce to the next. Why isn't this resolved yet? Actually starting to harm the prospects of the team now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I said this 5 weeks ago, this needed to be solved before he came back to pre-season but the fucking clowns running the club obviously don't have a clue. Should have offered your diplomatic services on a consultancy basis, neesy. I'm sure the club has made absolutely no effort to discuss the issue with Cisse, despite the multitude of press saying the exact opposite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I'm all for players having the freedom to express their personal beliefs, but not selectively. If he had a moral objection to interest-bearing loans, then he shouldn't have worn a Virgin Money shirt. There's a substantial difference in Islam between banks lending money with reasonable interest rates and financial institutions that exhibit flat out usury (what muslims call 'Riba'). Most commercial banks are used by Muslims as they also offer shariah compliant financing; having Virgin money on a t-shirt is - in an Islamic sense- a moral grey area. However the extent to which Wonga adds interest to its loans makes it extremely haraam- there is no moral grey area- and any practicing Muslim would well in his/her rights to refuse to help advertise such "sinful"and "unethical" operations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Get the feeling he is being badly advised over this and this is not his own opinion and its going to hurt his career. I respect anyone making a strand for what they believe in however its making him look a little daft as all of the other Muslim players are wearing the kit. Wonder what Ba would have done had he still been here. That doesn't count for a single thing. You have no idea what are the other players beliefs are other than that they are muslim? True but he is saying it is against his Muslim faith to wear the Wonga logo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I said this 5 weeks ago, this needed to be solved before he came back to pre-season but the f***ing clowns running the club obviously don't have a clue. Should have offered your diplomatic services on a consultancy basis, neesy. I'm sure the club has made absolutely no effort to discuss the issue with Cisse, despite the multitude of press saying the exact opposite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Get the feeling he is being badly advised over this and this is not his own opinion and its going to hurt his career. I respect anyone making a strand for what they believe in however its making him look a little daft as all of the other Muslim players are wearing the kit. Wonder what Ba would have done had he still been here. That doesn't count for a single thing. You have no idea what are the other players beliefs are other than that they are muslim? True but he is saying it is against his Muslim faith to wear the Wonga logo Not all Muslims are the same, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I wonder who has been chipping away at this into Cisse ear (no doubt his agent!). There is no way Cisse would have known the difference between Virgin Money and Wonga, after all they are all as thick as mince. No doubt some dodgy agent has brought this all up trying to get a juicy pay day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 With Cisse, however, his objection to Wonga is said to be on the basis of his religion. His religion finds money lending FULL STOP objectionable and unacceptable, so if he's using Wonga as an example of an unacceptable company to have on his shirt, then surely he must also object to any other commercial lender, and that wasn't the case for him last year. I think that's well summed up. I'm no expert on Islam or interpretations thereof but if you are taking a principled stance then by definition that principle must be consistent. Wonga are not a bank. It's entirely possible to reconcile your religious beliefs with an understanding that what a high street bank does, I imagine it's a completely different beast to have to do the same with a company that pray exclusively on the financially vulnerable and make a fucking bundle out of doing so. I totally agree and I think you and I are on the same page, for the most part. It's simply a slightly pedantic but very important interpretation that if there is an objection to interest-bearing institutions full stop, then playing in the Barclays Premier League (wearing that logo) while also wearing a Virgin Money logo should also be objectionable. Particularly as barclays have a famous track record of having defrauded investors out of billions through LIBOR-fixing and other rigging games. I suspect there must be a strong moral and religious objection to having to represent, even very indirectly, such an institution. But Cisse did and has done. If he simply finds it personally objectionable, then so be it. Sevilla did allow Freddie Kanoute to wear an unbranded shirt when they had a gambling sponsor. But if it is a strictly religious stance, I'm struggling to reconcile it with the others as religion - if you are a strict believer, as Cisse seems to be - is very much about principle and hard and fast laws/rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I said this 5 weeks ago, this needed to be solved before he came back to pre-season but the f***ing clowns running the club obviously don't have a clue. Should have offered your diplomatic services on a consultancy basis, neesy. I'm sure the club has made absolutely no effort to discuss the issue with Cisse, despite the multitude of press saying the exact opposite. Classic :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Sad fact is if he won't wear it he is gone, ball is on his court no way the club can do anything about it. The club must focus on the players that are willing to wear the shirt, not saying Cisse is not willing to play or train but there is no way around it, he has to wear it if he remains a Newcastle United player. I am more than sure this is what he will have been told, the club are not able to do anything about it so its up to Papiss to find a way to cope, or leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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