The College Dropout Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I really don't get the criticism of him last night. He was the only player on the pitch who had an ounce of urgency about him. He moved into space, looked to release the ball quickly and there wasn't an ounce of movement in front of him so was forced to go backwards. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times someone within a close passing distance actually made a move towards the ball for him and then progressed forwards, it was always instantly returned. Although it is pointless having a player on the pitch that is a link between the back line and the offensive players if none of them are interested. We may as well just hoof it. No he didn't, he passed it sideways to Lascelles and Williamson and back again all night. Possession for Possessions sake. Must say the split centre backs thing is potentially suitable when you have good distributors - like Colo and Mbemba are, to be fair to them - but it's absolutely useless when the 3 taking part are Williamson, Lascelles and Anita. Only one of them can pass and he very rarely shows any range at all. If the CB's are very good at passing. Arguably better than the DM. Perhaps the DM himself moves up the pitch and leaves distribution to the defeners? The point of the tactic is about reworking space, drawing out their forward line (creating gaps) and pushing full backs up higher. It's not just for keeping the ball, it's to allow more open patterns of play higher up the pitch. Fair enough but it hasn't worked at all. I believe the team in general is mean to really push up but it doesn't happen. None of our drabs of good play this season has come as a result of the tactic. We move the ball slowly and sideways a lot. Allowing opposition to close spaces easily. I've seen no signs of it looking like it's about to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Call me crazy, but if all else fails I'd give Anita a bash in an advanced role, his passing is accurate and crisp and without the defensive restraints I think he would be decent getting the ball wide and through balls to whoever is up front. Would be helpful on a counter attack too. You're nuts. He can't even manage a forward pass with the whole game infront of him. With less time and space he's not going to show more ambition on the ball mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I really don't get the criticism of him last night. He was the only player on the pitch who had an ounce of urgency about him. He moved into space, looked to release the ball quickly and there wasn't an ounce of movement in front of him so was forced to go backwards. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times someone within a close passing distance actually made a move towards the ball for him and then progressed forwards, it was always instantly returned. Although it is pointless having a player on the pitch that is a link between the back line and the offensive players if none of them are interested. We may as well just hoof it. No he didn't, he passed it sideways to Lascelles and Williamson and back again all night. Possession for Possessions sake. Must say the split centre backs thing is potentially suitable when you have good distributors - like Colo and Mbemba are, to be fair to them - but it's absolutely useless when the 3 taking part are Williamson, Lascelles and Anita. Only one of them can pass and he very rarely shows any range at all. If the CB's are very good at passing. Arguably better than the DM. Perhaps the DM himself moves up the pitch and leaves distribution to the defeners? The point of the tactic is about reworking space, drawing out their forward line (creating gaps) and pushing full backs up higher. It's not just for keeping the ball, it's to allow more open patterns of play higher up the pitch. Fair enough but it hasn't worked at all. I believe the team in general is mean to really push up but it doesn't happen. None of our drabs of good play this season has come as a result of the tactic. We move the ball slowly and sideways a lot. Allowing opposition to close spaces easily. I've seen no signs of it looking like it's about to work. It has actually worked well once this season, de Jong's chance against Watford was a result of it. Pretty sure Wijnaldum's chance against Southampton came from it too. Not that that's great, like. It requires some risk-takers to play it, like Mbemba did against Watford on a couple of occasions, but we don't have enough wanting to take the responsibility. Problem is, what are the other options? We just give the ball away playing a bit more direct and don't compete for second balls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Call me crazy, but if all else fails I'd give Anita a bash in an advanced role, his passing is accurate and crisp and without the defensive restraints I think he would be decent getting the ball wide and through balls to whoever is up front. Would be helpful on a counter attack too. You're nuts. He can't even manage a forward pass with the whole game infront of him. With less time and space he's not going to show more ambition on the ball mate. That's funny because I remember quite a few forward passes from him on Wed. Out to wings or some decent over the top balls towards De Jong. He has more awareness than the rest of them and sees the angles. Jack Sidepass is a lot worse in his movement and passing. Anita never stops moving and is quick to release the ball. If he had 2 decent midfielders in front of him it would be great but none of them show for the ball and let themselves get marked tight meaning the only ball he can play is to the side or back a lot of time. Him, Janmaat and Mbemba are the only three players that looked like they gave a shit / had any level of quality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I agree about the other 3 but thought Anita could have done more to pass forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 When Anita doesn't have the ball he is an absolute waste of a shirt. I'm sick of seeing him backpedal so far that he's 5 yards off his man on the edge of our area. He's so scared of any physical battle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 When Anita doesn't have the ball he is an absolute waste of a shirt. I'm sick of seeing him backpedal so far that he's 5 yards off his man on the edge of our area. He's so scared of any physical battle. He's not alone in this mind but yeah for the most part this is fairly true. We need a serious upgrade in January if there is any hope of staying up. Might be over by then tbf mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 When Anita doesn't have the ball he is an absolute waste of a shirt. I'm sick of seeing him backpedal so far that he's 5 yards off his man on the edge of our area. He's so scared of any physical battle. He's not alone in this mind but yeah for the most part this is fairly true. We need a serious upgrade in January if there is any hope of staying up. Might be over by then tbf mind. It's a symptom of so many of our players, I'm convinced this was a Pardew 'tactic'. Never make an actual tackle (or even physical shoulder to shoulder!) as we always had so many players behind the ball to block the shot/eventually bore the opposition to tears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 When Anita doesn't have the ball he is an absolute waste of a shirt. I'm sick of seeing him backpedal so far that he's 5 yards off his man on the edge of our area. He's so scared of any physical battle. He's not alone in this mind but yeah for the most part this is fairly true. We need a serious upgrade in January if there is any hope of staying up. Might be over by then tbf mind. It's a symptom of so many of our players, I'm convinced this was a Pardew 'tactic'. Never make an actual tackle (or even physical shoulder to shoulder!) as we always had so many players behind the ball to block the shot/eventually bore the opposition to tears. The second part of this post is probably true, tbh. So many of our players don't challenge, they may well have forgotten they need to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 anita had loads of the ball but repeatedly looked up to see his team mates stood like statues facing him and not trying to move or find space. no one on the half turn looking to make run forward, just stood with their backs to goal amongst a crowd of sheff wed players gawping at anita and hoping he wouldnt pass to them. on a few occasions he moved it out wide to williamson who had a chance of playing a quick ball up the right to janmaat or thauvin in a little space, but he would stop the ball and ponder a few seconds before passing back to anita. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 They could have just been standing around as they know it will never be passed forward by the little munchkin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Are you for real? He literally has more off the ball movement than 90% of the rest of the team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 It's his distribution that gets me. Most of his passes are to defenders. Coquelin gets the ball to Cazorla & Ramsey. Wanyama's who was awful on the ball against us regularly gets the ball to Mane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Are you for real? He literally has more off the ball movement than 90% of the rest of the team Aye but not in positive areas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Wouldn't be surprised if he or Colback plays full back tomorrow assuming Haidara is still crocked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Wouldn't be surprised if he or Colback plays full back tomorrow assuming Haidara is still crocked. Maybe. He'll shove Mbemba there and bring in Williamson would be my guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 anita had loads of the ball but repeatedly looked up to see his team mates stood like statues facing him and not trying to move or find space. no one on the half turn looking to make run forward, just stood with their backs to goal amongst a crowd of sheff wed players gawping at anita and hoping he wouldnt pass to them. on a few occasions he moved it out wide to williamson who had a chance of playing a quick ball up the right to janmaat or thauvin in a little space, but he would stop the ball and ponder a few seconds before passing back to anita. This is the thing. People expect him to perform miracles and play it through the opposition. The few times people are in space like obertan was he is more than capable of finding the pass. He has shown he can be quick with his distribution, moves off the ball and generally finds the space available. He's better than people make out and is hampered by the retards in front of him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Are you for real? He literally has more off the ball movement than 90% of the rest of the team Aye but not in positive areas why is it so hard for people to grasp that he's not being asked to play in forward areas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Are you for real? He literally has more off the ball movement than 90% of the rest of the team Aye but not in positive areas why is it so hard for people to grasp that he's not being asked to play in forward areas? I mean positive areas as in areas where he can actually do something useful once he receives the ball. He has good off the ball movement as in he is good at getting into a position to receive a pass but this position is usually very deep and his pass is most likely going to go to one of the centre halves once he receives it. What he should be doing is still getting into positions to receive a pass but also putting himself in a position where he can make a positive forward pass rather than a position where his options are either to pass it along the back four or to hoof it forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Anita is scared to receive/use the ball in any area where he is likely to be put under physical pressure by someone closing him down or getting shoulder to shoulder. He get's bullied and can't do anything about it. So he either sits so deep where the opposition can't be arsed to close him down, or when he moves a bit further forward he gets rid of the ball too quickly. It's so frustrating to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I've read alternate views, but to me Vurn was one of the few who put in solid performances against Sheff Wed: no shame, no blame on him for result. That said, my 'few' include Lascelles, Williamson and Obertan! I don't even think defence is our issue any more. It's the 3 attacking midfielders and striker losing ball so much and creating fuck all meaning ball comes straight back and we are under pressure time and time again. Every time the back 4 or deep midfielder has ball there is no one trying to slot into space or taking their marker for a run to open up space. It's pedestrian i think this is right, little vurn is doing what's asked of him but he can't make the more attack-minded (!) players move into space like he does looking for passes it's alright saying he should pass forwards but unless he's under instructions to go long or direct then he's not going to do it, and rightly so when he hasn't got the ball is a different matter though obvs Pass and Move though. He passes and stays where he is. Are you for real? He literally has more off the ball movement than 90% of the rest of the team Aye but not in positive areas why is it so hard for people to grasp that he's not being asked to play in forward areas? I mean positive areas as in areas where he can actually do something useful once he receives the ball. He has good off the ball movement as in he is good at getting into a position to receive a pass but this position is usually very deep and his pass is most likely going to go to one of the centre halves once he receives it. What he should be doing is still getting into positions to receive a pass but also putting himself in a position where he can make a positive forward pass rather than a position where his options are either to pass it along the back four or to hoof it forward Again, the way I see it he's playing where he's asked. Think back to him under Pardew, he never played in these areas he was around the pitch much more. He's being told to do it and he's doing what he's told, that is very clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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