Decky Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've given up with him now. This game week is now over and we are two points off the drop zone with impossible fixtures taking us right up to January 2nd, although we lost 5 winnable fixtures in the last few weeks so it's probably beyond that. Any manager who takes that squad of players and ends up in a relegation battle isn't good enough for the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'd take Wenger like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The main problem is two-fold ; Pardew has demonstrated,at least for me, that he isn't going to cut the mustard as a topclass manager - that much is obvious by the constant below-par performances he gets from players who should be doing better added to the one-dimensional style of play which doesn't produce many chances. The second part of the problem is that the people above him clearly have NO idea of how to run a football club the size of NUFC - they have demonstrated this time and again by their stupid decisions and a transfer policy which has been myopic at best and niggardly at worst. Pardew is performing to type if you look back at his record with other clubs, but the crux of the matter is that very few fans trust the owner/MD to be able to replace him with anyone better....that is why he still hasn't really come in for flak from the fans, but I have no doubt that a series of bad performances/defeats over the next few games is going to change all that. Given that both manager and board suit each other for differing reasons, we are unlikely to see him fired unless we are rooted in the bottom 3 by mid-Jan...even then, there is little chance that anyone decent would be either available or want the job, esp if the Jan transfer money has been spent so I reckon we are stuck with the situation for the foreseeable future. There is a chance - a good chance - that this mess will lead to relegation and at the very least, the better players wanting to leave the club...some of them undoubtedly do already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'd take Wenger like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'd take Wenger like. Doesn't like to splash the cash these days. Mike could be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Wenger? Never will happen though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Seeing loads of key players leaving last time wasn't that bad because I didn't like them and they weren't that good anyway. The players who'd leave this time are some of my favourite ever players. However, If we kept this squad and appointed a good manager it'd be like the Keegan days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Wenger will be out of a job for some time, he mentally needs a rest. Think him jumping straight in to another job would be car crash unless the club was going well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Yeah Wenger looks like he's a nice sabbatical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Will never happen, but i wonder how much Wenger earns? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The main problem is two-fold ; Pardew has demonstrated,at least for me, that he isn't going to cut the mustard as a topclass manager - that much is obvious by the constant below-par performances he gets from players who should be doing better added to the one-dimensional style of play which doesn't produce many chances. The second part of the problem is that the people above him clearly have NO idea of how to run a football club the size of NUFC - they have demonstrated this time and again by their stupid decisions and a transfer policy which has been myopic at best and niggardly at worst. Pardew is performing to type if you look back at his record with other clubs, but the crux of the matter is that very few fans trust the owner/MD to be able to replace him with anyone better....that is why he still hasn't really come in for flak from the fans, but I have no doubt that a series of bad performances/defeats over the next few games is going to change all that. Given that both manager and board suit each other for differing reasons, we are unlikely to see him fired unless we are rooted in the bottom 3 by mid-Jan...even then, there is little chance that anyone decent would be either available or want the job, esp if the Jan transfer money has been spent so I reckon we are stuck with the situation for the foreseeable future. There is a chance - a good chance - that this mess will lead to relegation and at the very least, the better players wanting to leave the club...some of them undoubtedly do already. Agree with all of that. The people saying that Pardew needs time aren't taking into account that a very low finish or relegation is going to gut the first team immediately. It will be really sad to have to watch next years carry on without the likes of Hatem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The main problem is two-fold ; Pardew has demonstrated,at least for me, that he isn't going to cut the mustard as a topclass manager - that much is obvious by the constant below-par performances he gets from players who should be doing better added to the one-dimensional style of play which doesn't produce many chances. The second part of the problem is that the people above him clearly have NO idea of how to run a football club the size of NUFC - they have demonstrated this time and again by their stupid decisions and a transfer policy which has been myopic at best and niggardly at worst. Pardew is performing to type if you look back at his record with other clubs, but the crux of the matter is that very few fans trust the owner/MD to be able to replace him with anyone better....that is why he still hasn't really come in for flak from the fans, but I have no doubt that a series of bad performances/defeats over the next few games is going to change all that. Given that both manager and board suit each other for differing reasons, we are unlikely to see him fired unless we are rooted in the bottom 3 by mid-Jan...even then, there is little chance that anyone decent would be either available or want the job, esp if the Jan transfer money has been spent so I reckon we are stuck with the situation for the foreseeable future. There is a chance - a good chance - that this mess will lead to relegation and at the very least, the better players wanting to leave the club...some of them undoubtedly do already. Agree with all of that. The people saying that Pardew needs time aren't taking into account that a very low finish or relegation is going to gut the first team immediately. It will be really sad to have to watch next years carry on without the likes of Hatem. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The main problem is two-fold ; Pardew has demonstrated,at least for me, that he isn't going to cut the mustard as a topclass manager - that much is obvious by the constant below-par performances he gets from players who should be doing better added to the one-dimensional style of play which doesn't produce many chances. The second part of the problem is that the people above him clearly have NO idea of how to run a football club the size of NUFC - they have demonstrated this time and again by their stupid decisions and a transfer policy which has been myopic at best and niggardly at worst. Pardew is performing to type if you look back at his record with other clubs, but the crux of the matter is that very few fans trust the owner/MD to be able to replace him with anyone better....that is why he still hasn't really come in for flak from the fans, but I have no doubt that a series of bad performances/defeats over the next few games is going to change all that. Given that both manager and board suit each other for differing reasons, we are unlikely to see him fired unless we are rooted in the bottom 3 by mid-Jan...even then, there is little chance that anyone decent would be either available or want the job, esp if the Jan transfer money has been spent so I reckon we are stuck with the situation for the foreseeable future. There is a chance - a good chance - that this mess will lead to relegation and at the very least, the better players wanting to leave the club...some of them undoubtedly do already. I agreed with most of that apart from the relegation scenario. I'm far more concerned that we'll end up losing key players because the owners are too heavily invested in a manager who might fit their pay structure but who has fuck all idea how to assemble the complex parts delivered by the club's scouting policy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Pardew is sooo up himself in every way. He has blamed our poor season on every f***ing thing in universe and beyond, except himself. He sounds like as if he's got absolutely nothing to do with anything that is not very good or f***ing awful. Take some responsibility, at least sometime. Nah, just fuck off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Pardew is as much of a class act as an IKEA painting is art. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The main reason I dislike Pardew is that its very hard to see any intelligent or logical thought behind his tactics, beyond personal preference. Even when we were going direct with Hughton, we had a game plan, i.e. getting Barton to hit long diagonals at our front men to get behind their defensive line, or setting the team up to benefit from Carroll's flick-ons. Our defence had a proper game plan too; remember the high line, which was actually effective at pressuring the other team off the ball quickly? Or our triple-layered defensive line which made us impregnable in some games? When Pardew took over he brought nothing new to the team for a while and we did just fine. That, and he's a smug egoistic prick who will never learn from his mistakes or put any blame on himself ala Souness. Over the course of nearly 2 years he has taken over this side: Harper Simpson Williamson / Taylor Colo Enrique Jonas Nolan Tiote Barton Ameobi Lovenkrands And delivered a mid table finish without having the player the side was built around for half the season (despite being assured that he would have him) He then put out this side and delivered an 11 game unbeaten run. Again he had to do this without the striker and the left back he was promised in the summer: Krul Simpson Willo / Taylor Colo Taylor Obertan Tiote Cabaye Jonas Best Ba Then when that side ran out of steam in the middle third of the season (and a lot of people on here, who have clearly learnt nothing, started absolutely slaughtering him), he made the transition to this side: Krul Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Jonas Tiote Cabaye HBA Cisse Ba And delivered a 5th placed finish, far beyond anyones expectations. Thats not "a fluke", thats consistently good management over nearly 2 years. Compare to the many other managers we've had who don't manage to impose any system of play at all, and have clearly lost the players completely after less than a year. A big part of it has been the faith he has shown in squad players. I never saw any way Perch could play in the Premier League. Since leaving Guthrie has disappeared off the faith of the earth. I remember being incredulous that Best was starting v West Ham. Pardew talked him up in the press, stuck him in the team despite the barracking he would get if we lost, and Best got a hat trick and was very effective for the rest of the year. Hes now properly struggling for the 1st time in 2 years, but we are improving, and I'd back him to deliver a 4th effective starting XI. How about supporters actually show a bit of faith in him? You cannot possibly say he hasn't earned it. I believe the first 6 words of your final sentence reveal a lot about the motives behind your post in this thread, and that of a lot of other posters as well. The first side was what I was talking about. It was essentially Hughton's side without any tactical changes - we played EXACTLY the same as we had before. Also, we'd have finished higher if Pardew hadn't made that Alan Smith substitution in the second half against WBA. Yes, Pardew did well to get the best out of Perch and Best, and he did extremely well last season no doubt about that. Starting Obertan over HBA consistently is not something that I'd give him credit for however. What that proves is that he is a good man manager, as someone had already pointed out. Not getting the players he was "promised" is something that every manager works with unless you're Roberto Mancini. My criticism was aimed at Pardew's inability to come up with an actual game plan, besides those games against sides like Man City et al where we try our best to cut off all playing space in our half, then countering either through a long ball to Shola or getting the ball out to Ben Arfa, which obviously isn't a sensible thing to be doing against teams who are at our own level or worse. When our players have the ball in the opposing half, you can see that the players are just winging it out there - there's no one making decoy runs, no quick interchanges between the midfield and the forwards, Ba and HBA simply trying to do everything on their own, etc. Every time a player gets the ball you can see them pausing for a second to think about what they're meant to do next (especially Tiote and Jonas), and you never see that in teams like Wigan/WBA/Fulham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 one aspect where he's really let things fall apart is home games, thinking back to the hughton sacking one thing pardew seemed to instantly be an upgrade on was winning home games....hughton had struggled badly and basically teams could come up to sjp shut up shop and walk away with a fairly easy 1 or 3 points, pardew came in and we looked strong at home again and that bred a confidence throughout everything else pardew is now slap bang in that same position...if you have a strong home record it'll mask a lot of things and this is really costing him, he hasn't a fucking clue how to change it in his favour either unfortunately qpr is big for me, he's got to win it, if he doesn't then i really fail to see a way back for him unless he's backed with some quality/appropriate players for his style in jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. That would depend on two things: 1) results 2) style of play suiting the current squad At the moment I can't really see either coming any time soon so I think your view is very short term at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd take Wenger like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. That would depend on two things: 1) results 2) style of play suiting the current squad At the moment I can't really see either coming any time soon so I think your view is very short term at best. I'm assuming the new manager isn't going to be significantly better than Pardew, which I think given our track record is a pretty fair assumption. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm still broadly supportive of Pardew and really hope he turns it around, but some of the evidence starting to stack up against him really needs addressing asap. - No wins after going behind in over 2 years - No goals from set pieces all season - Worst away run in 27 years I think European qualification for next season is already gone, so he's got the rest of the season to find a way to get this squad playing to their potential while scraping enough points together to keep us (comfortably) away from relegation - the next 6 months are a defining time for his whole managerial career I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm still broadly supportive of Pardew and really hope he turns it around, but some of the evidence starting to stack up against him really needs addressing asap. - No wins after going behind in over 2 years - No goals from set pieces all season - Worst away run in 27 years I think European qualification for next season is already gone, so he's got the rest of the season to find a way to get this squad playing to their potential while scraping enough points together to keep us (comfortably) away from relegation - the next 6 months games are a defining time for his whole managerial career I reckon. He'll lose the fans if things don't pick up in the next six games. And they won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He'll lose the fans if things don't pick up in the next six games. And they won't. I agree, but I just don't see a scenario in which he gets sacked before the end of the season - possibly if he very clearly and publicly loses the dressing room but that doesn't look likely. Ashley isn't going to want to lose face by ditching someone 3 months into an 8 year contract, and has demonstrated plenty times he gives less than one single fuck what the fans think. Just hope he's enough sense to realise he must back him in the transfer window.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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