Alan Pardew

[Disco]

How good are the players then Disco? Worse than Southampton? Villa? Norwich? Stoke?

 

Presumably you think we need to jettison Graham Carr too as he's the one primarily responsible for bringing them in?

 

And there we go again.

 

Forget it then. You've become worse than Stu for not offering an opinion but being happy to pour scorn on that of others.

 

Absolute drivel. My opinons are absolutely all over the shop as you well know. Where did I mention we should get rid of Carr again...remind me please.

[BottledDog]

Some decent passing football would be nice.

 

Aye, would be nice. The thing I'm missing most at the moment though is goals.

 

Fair enough with only a misfiring Cisse and a not exactly a natural finisher in Gouffran as options before you end up with Ameobi you can see why we're struggling.

 

But I'd fucking love to see us give someone a drubbing again (and my right arm for another 5-1 against Sunderland).

[Guest Dontooner]

being safe would be nice , would not bash pardew so much if not for being in relegation contention. the standard of football can't be more terrible right up there with the worst personally

 

[jdckelly]

a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season.

And before anyone says anything here, a couple of years ago this was different as it appeared that we were an unattractive club who players didn't want to be 100 miles of with an owner who was unwilling invest/was just going to pocket the cash etc. That simply isn't the case at all now.

bit of a way to go before you can call us a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season with the sides all battling for it atm

Yeah, because they all have top managers.

Chelsea fans would disagree, but they have other advantages Chelsea can buy their way into the top 4, Arsenal are staying in on sheer inertia at this stage, Liverpools history and profile allows them to have an easier job of attracting better players like Suarez to the club who would never come here even if we were in the identical position to Liverpool when trying to sign him from Ajax. Arguably the ones who don't have a significant advantage over us are Everton who can barely be called in the cl race any year but could be said to be challenging for it and they stuck with Moyes even after a relegation battle after a good season and Spurs who have a similar enough methodology to us in how they work but are a few years further down the line.

[Guest neesy111]

The squad is very unbalanced though imo.

 

In what way?

 

I agree with Interpolic. Certainly in the wide forward position we're lacking with Ben Arfa out. Other than that?

 

 

With the options Interpolic said.  No wonder why we are struggling to score and create chances as that is where we need the most options imo.  Having Shola as backup to Cisse is a farce.

 

It is but Suarez was Liverpool's only striker all season until they signed Sturridge. Cisse is fit, playing well and scoring so whoever we bought as back up wouldn't be starting anyway. It's a red herring. Yes it's a position that needs strengthening in the summer but not something that affects us too much right this second.

 

Only one wing is an issue at present, unless you think we've bought a dud with Gouffran. So again we're back to being 100% reliant on Ben Arfa.

 

Cisse and Suarez are completely different footballers.

 

What an utterly irrelevant post, nice one.

 

Disco is spot on about you.

[nufc4eva]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

We lost 2 days ago.

 

We lost 2 days ago against a very good side, away from home, largely due to individual errors, in the first leg of the QF of a major european competition, whilst creating some very good chances which we were unfortunate not to convert, without a number of important players. I don't see how it's relevant to the "this team should be challenging for 4th and it's all Pardew's fault we're not" argument.

 

Isn't that the problem though, it's always individual errors, we rarely concede a well worked goal and yet Pardew spends 80% time coaching defence and not even under pressure we tend to fuck up

[Mick]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

Good point, we're unbeaten this season.

[Disco]

The squad is very unbalanced though imo.

 

In what way?

 

I agree with Interpolic. Certainly in the wide forward position we're lacking with Ben Arfa out. Other than that?

 

 

With the options Interpolic said.  No wonder why we are struggling to score and create chances as that is where we need the most options imo.  Having Shola as backup to Cisse is a farce.

 

It is but Suarez was Liverpool's only striker all season until they signed Sturridge. Cisse is fit, playing well and scoring so whoever we bought as back up wouldn't be starting anyway. It's a red herring. Yes it's a position that needs strengthening in the summer but not something that affects us too much right this second.

 

Only one wing is an issue at present, unless you think we've bought a dud with Gouffran. So again we're back to being 100% reliant on Ben Arfa.

 

Cisse and Suarez are completely different footballers.

 

What an utterly irrelevant post, nice one.

 

Disco is spot on about you.

 

Don't bring me in to man. FFS! I've not even said owt, given I have no opinions of course

[Wullie]

How good are the players then Disco? Worse than Southampton? Villa? Norwich? Stoke?

 

Presumably you think we need to jettison Graham Carr too as he's the one primarily responsible for bringing them in?

 

And there we go again.

 

Forget it then. You've become worse than Stu for not offering an opinion but being happy to pour scorn on that of others.

 

Absolute drivel. My opinons are absolutely all over the shop as you well know. Where did I mention we should get rid of Carr again...remind me please.

 

You said that the players aren't as good as everyone thinks (I.e. good enough not to be battling relegation). If that was my opinion I'd definitely want shot of the bloke who has chosen them after we've spent a decent amount of money.

[Guest bimpy474]

Some decent passing football would be nice.

 

It should be possible with a bit of coaching. Anita, Cabaye and Marveux should be capable of retaining the ball. The problem is we don't pass in patterns, teams like Swansea have players coming to pick up the ball. We wait for it to come to us. We don't play in triangles and often when a player receives a pass he doesn't have a angle to play on to. It comes from coaching in my opinion and it appears very little coaching is done to be honest because it isn't showing

 

Spot on.

 

Some decent passing football would be nice.

 

Aye, would be nice. The thing I'm missing most at the moment though is goals.

 

Fair enough with only a misfiring Cisse and a not exactly a natural finisher in Gouffran as options before you end up with Ameobi you can see why we're struggling.

 

But I'd fucking love to see us give someone a drubbing again (and my right arm for another 5-1 against Sunderland).

 

We've never scored too many under Pardew, and after 2 years now i think it's clear we wont. He just doesn't do attacking football despite all his spew.

[Mole_Toonfan]

What I'm finding extremely tedious on this thread is that if you criticise Pardew for legitimate reasons (WE ARE f***ing THREE POINTS OFF RELEGATION FFS) It's turned into some sort or ridicule along the lines of "HAHAH YEAH HE TELLS TIOTE TO PLAY s***". Its boring as f*** now, and this whole he got us 5th last season thing? so what, we aren't fifth now, we are three points off relegation with a young exciting and very good team (cue the "are these players as good as we say they are).

 

End of the day, there is no excuse for this season, absolutely nothing. Its really that simple.

 

But this is a massive, massive point which is completely ignored by almost everyone in their rush to blame (or deflect) Pardew.

 

Which I was shot down when I suggested it earlier as usual.

 

You might have a case tbh but ignoring it totally even if we do overrate some players they are still a shit tonne better than a relegation dog fight.

[Guest TheGreatBeardo]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

Good point, we're unbeaten this season.

 

What?

[Guest neesy111]

The squad is very unbalanced though imo.

 

In what way?

 

I agree with Interpolic. Certainly in the wide forward position we're lacking with Ben Arfa out. Other than that?

 

 

With the options Interpolic said.  No wonder why we are struggling to score and create chances as that is where we need the most options imo.  Having Shola as backup to Cisse is a farce.

 

It is but Suarez was Liverpool's only striker all season until they signed Sturridge. Cisse is fit, playing well and scoring so whoever we bought as back up wouldn't be starting anyway. It's a red herring. Yes it's a position that needs strengthening in the summer but not something that affects us too much right this second.

 

Only one wing is an issue at present, unless you think we've bought a dud with Gouffran. So again we're back to being 100% reliant on Ben Arfa.

 

Cisse and Suarez are completely different footballers.

 

What an utterly irrelevant post, nice one.

 

Disco is spot on about you.

 

Don't bring me in to man. FFS! I've not even said owt, given I have no opinions of course

 

[Guest neesy111]

What I'm finding extremely tedious on this thread is that if you criticise Pardew for legitimate reasons (WE ARE f***ing THREE POINTS OFF RELEGATION FFS) It's turned into some sort or ridicule along the lines of "HAHAH YEAH HE TELLS TIOTE TO PLAY s***". Its boring as f*** now, and this whole he got us 5th last season thing? so what, we aren't fifth now, we are three points off relegation with a young exciting and very good team (cue the "are these players as good as we say they are).

 

End of the day, there is no excuse for this season, absolutely nothing. Its really that simple.

 

But this is a massive, massive point which is completely ignored by almost everyone in their rush to blame (or deflect) Pardew.

 

Which I was shot down when I suggested it earlier as usual.

 

You might have a case tbh but ignoring it totally even if we do overrate some players they are still a shit tonne better than a relegation dog fight.

 

Without a doubt, but there's quite a few players imo that some fans have highly inflated views of.

[Disco]

How good are the players then Disco? Worse than Southampton? Villa? Norwich? Stoke?

 

Presumably you think we need to jettison Graham Carr too as he's the one primarily responsible for bringing them in?

 

And there we go again.

 

Forget it then. You've become worse than Stu for not offering an opinion but being happy to pour scorn on that of others.

 

Absolute drivel. My opinons are absolutely all over the shop as you well know. Where did I mention we should get rid of Carr again...remind me please.

 

You said that the players aren't as good as everyone thinks (I.e. good enough not to be battling relegation). If that was my opinion I'd definitely want shot of the bloke who has chosen them after we've spent a decent amount of money.

 

Playing at full pelt they are no-one is this season, more or less everyone bar Krul is playing beneath themselves and people are forgetting that Debuchy, Sissoko, MYM et al aren't going to be pulling up trees straight away as foreign players that aren't world class generally don't and even some of the those world class ones struggle at first (Bergkamp & Henry for e.g.)

 

Everyone goes on about us having the best squad in years, they're basing that on players playing at their peak every game rather than their average which is generally a truer indicator of how they're liable to perform week in, week out.

 

Tiote has been appalling for the most part this season, Santon has cost us goal after goal after goal, Coloccini has been a shell of the player we saw last year, Cisse has been poor in large spells (yet he can't be dropped because there is no-one else), we've got no creative players aside from two injury prone Frenchman, our squad depth is horrible etc. etc.

 

Its a top 7 first team easily

 

This is what I mean, it isn't at all IMO.

 

FWIW I had us down for 8th start of the season.

[Interpolic]

I still don't buy into this idea that Marveaux couldn't have done a better job than Jonas or Obertan on the wing in many games this season.  Obertan was given over half a season on the wing last year before we sacked him off, Marveaux's been given a handful of games in that position and generally sits on the bench because he can't get into the central midfield slots.  I've just checked and he's played around 800 minutes in the league this season, despite our well documented () injury problems and him not being unavailable for selection at all from what I can recall (maybe the odd knock).  So that's 800 minutes out of almost 2800, or in other words he's been on the pitch less than 30% of the time he could have been this season.  And he's still managed to look a creative threat when he's been on the pitch.

 

He's invariably on the bench in favour of a far poorer player in Jonas or Obertan despite never getting a chance on the wing.  No matter how well he plays he's back on the bench sooner or later, and that's another axe I've got to grind with Pardew as I think negativity is again at the root of the reasoning.

[Mick]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

Good point, we're unbeaten this season.

 

What?

Sorry, I assumed that we were unbeaten when you said it was traditional to wait until we actually lose

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

We lost 2 days ago.

 

We lost 2 days ago against a very good side, away from home, largely due to individual errors, in the first leg of the QF of a major european competition, whilst creating some very good chances which we were unfortunate not to convert, without a number of important players. I don't see how it's relevant to the "this team should be challenging for 4th and it's all Pardew's fault we're not" argument.

I was just pointing out the error of your post, sorry.

 

Anyway you seem to be suggesting that we only have this discussion directly after we have played horribly and lost? That seems very fickle and reactionary to me.

[Disco]

I'm new here, but isn't it traditional to wait untill we actually lose before before these arguments begin again?

We lost 2 days ago.

 

We lost 2 days ago against a very good side, away from home, largely due to individual errors, in the first leg of the QF of a major european competition, whilst creating some very good chances which we were unfortunate not to convert, without a number of important players. I don't see how it's relevant to the "this team should be challenging for 4th and it's all Pardew's fault we're not" argument.

I was just pointing out the error of your post, sorry.

 

Anyway you seem to be suggesting that we only have this discussion directly after we have played horribly and lost? That seems very fickle and reactionary to me.

 

That's true, the argument is usually equally as healthy on the same subject after a win

[Mole_Toonfan]

I wouldn't say its a top 7 team easily but its definitely capable of challenging to be in and around Everton and Liverpool.

 

Especially now with all these signings in January, at the end of the day though we should be nowhere near 15th so its really irrelevant.

 

[Disco]

I wouldn't say its a top 7 team easily but its definitely capable of challenging to be in and around Everton and Liverpool.

 

Especially now with all these signings in January, at the end of the day though we should be nowhere near 15th so its really irrelevant.

 

 

to put things simply.

[Interpolic]

we've got no creative players aside from two injury prone Frenchman, our squad depth is horrible etc. etc.

 

We've got Marveaux, who hardly ever plays - see above.

[Wullie]

How good are the players then Disco? Worse than Southampton? Villa? Norwich? Stoke?

 

Presumably you think we need to jettison Graham Carr too as he's the one primarily responsible for bringing them in?

 

And there we go again.

 

Forget it then. You've become worse than Stu for not offering an opinion but being happy to pour scorn on that of others.

 

Absolute drivel. My opinons are absolutely all over the shop as you well know. Where did I mention we should get rid of Carr again...remind me please.

 

You said that the players aren't as good as everyone thinks (I.e. good enough not to be battling relegation). If that was my opinion I'd definitely want shot of the bloke who has chosen them after we've spent a decent amount of money.

 

Playing at full pelt they are no-one is this season, more or less everyone bar Krul is playing beneath themselves and people are forgetting that Debuchy, Sissoko, MYM et al aren't going to be pulling up trees straight away as foreign players that aren't world class generally don't and even some of the those world class ones struggle at first (Bergkamp & Henry for e.g.)

 

Everyone goes on about us having the best squad in years, they're basing that on players playing at their peak every game rather than their average which is generally a truer indicator of how they're liable to perform week in, week out.

 

Tiote has been appalling for the most part this season, Santon has cost us goal after goal after goal, Coloccini has been a shell of the player we saw last year, Cisse has been poor in large spells (yet he can't be dropped because there is no-one else), we've got no creative players aside from two injury prone Frenchman, our squad depth is horrible etc. etc.

 

Its a top 7 first team easily

 

This is what I mean, it isn't at all IMO.

 

FWIW I had us down for 8th start of the season.

 

Would you agree though that even with injuries and issues, the squad should have comfortably made it into that pack of teams that have been safe for about three months: Swansea, West Brom etc.

 

I don't think anyone could have argued about results too much if we were in with them and not far behind quite a poor Liverpool side. The position we are in however should have seen him go months ago.

 

Obviously performances are a different matter - they were shit last season and shit this season. I can't genuinely believe that anyone thinks Pardew is the right man to get the best out of these players, even if they were fit every single game. Even when the results were great last season, the performances were almost always utterly fucking rotten.

 

Does anyone actual enjoy watching this negative drivel? I'd give my right arm for us to go into a game intent on giving someone a pasting but he's simply not interested.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season.

And before anyone says anything here, a couple of years ago this was different as it appeared that we were an unattractive club who players didn't want to be 100 miles of with an owner who was unwilling invest/was just going to pocket the cash etc. That simply isn't the case at all now.

bit of a way to go before you can call us a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season with the sides all battling for it atm

Yeah, because they all have top managers.

Chelsea fans would disagree, but they have other advantages Chelsea can buy their way into the top 4, Arsenal are staying in on sheer inertia at this stage, Liverpools history and profile allows them to have an easier job of attracting better players like Suarez to the club who would never come here even if we were in the identical position to Liverpool when trying to sign him from Ajax. Arguably the ones who don't have a significant advantage over us are Everton who can barely be called in the cl race any year but could be said to be challenging for it and they stuck with Moyes even after a relegation battle after a good season and Spurs who have a similar enough methodology to us in how they work but are a few years further down the line.

A few years ago they were still challenging for the top 4, as they have been for donkeys because they've had good managers.

 

Moyes is a better manager than Pardew too, just because they stuck with him and it worked doesn't mean it's the same with every manager. It's the same with Fergie "What if Man U sacked him back in 93!" or whenever it was, well yeah, but what if they stuck with Alan Pardew in 93? 

[Wullie]

a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season.

And before anyone says anything here, a couple of years ago this was different as it appeared that we were an unattractive club who players didn't want to be 100 miles of with an owner who was unwilling invest/was just going to pocket the cash etc. That simply isn't the case at all now.

bit of a way to go before you can call us a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season with the sides all battling for it atm

Yeah, because they all have top managers.

Chelsea fans would disagree, but they have other advantages Chelsea can buy their way into the top 4, Arsenal are staying in on sheer inertia at this stage, Liverpools history and profile allows them to have an easier job of attracting better players like Suarez to the club who would never come here even if we were in the identical position to Liverpool when trying to sign him from Ajax. Arguably the ones who don't have a significant advantage over us are Everton who can barely be called in the cl race any year but could be said to be challenging for it and they stuck with Moyes even after a relegation battle after a good season and Spurs who have a similar enough methodology to us in how they work but are a few years further down the line.

A few years ago they were still challenging for the top 4, as they have been for donkeys because they've had good managers.

 

Moyes is a better manager than Pardew too, just because they stuck with him and it worked doesn't mean it's the same with every manager. It's the same with Fergie "What if Man U sacked him back in 93!" or whenever it was, well yeah, but what if they stuck with Alan Pardew in 93?