Guest icemanblue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I always thought his rapport with the players was one of his biggest strengths. Not that it will always translate to good performances on the pitch obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? It's probably easy to confuse 'not playing for the manager' with 'under-performing'. Plenty are doing the latter. Other than that it's speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? It's probably easy to confuse 'not playing for the manager' with 'under-performing'. Plenty are doing the latter. Other than that it's speculation. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? It's probably easy to confuse 'not playing for the manager' with 'under-performing'. Plenty are doing the latter. Other than that it's speculation. I'm not sure it's that easy to confuse. I don't think there's been too much evidence of a lack of application, but there are obviously a fair few underperforming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's easy to confuse if you're looking for reasons to criticise Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? It's probably easy to confuse 'not playing for the manager' with 'under-performing'. Plenty are doing the latter. Other than that it's speculation. I'm not sure it's that easy to confuse. I don't think there's been too much evidence of a lack of application, but there are obviously a fair few underperforming. I think when you get 6 or 7 of your top players seriously underperforming at the same time it can make people wonder. Fwiw, i don't get the impression he's lost the dressing room. Still, when you have that many players well below par it gets easy to jump to conclusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? You tell me which ones are......Ba and Cisse clearly aren't, neither was Cabaye before his injury, Tiote is shadow of the player he was when he arrived and Colo is a pro but doing just what is professionally necessary...need I go on ? No doubt you see things differently, but we aint going to agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think we're marginally more likely to keep players with Pardew than without him. Shortcomings nonwithstanding, at the very least they seem to like him and are willing to play for him. Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? You tell me which ones are......Ba and Cisse clearly aren't, neither was Cabaye before his injury, Tiote is shadow of the player he was when he arrived and Colo is a pro but doing just what is professionally necessary...need I go on ? No doubt you see things differently, but we aint going to agree. I think you are confusing poor form with 'not playing' for the manager, like. Ba has scored 10 league goals, which is 10 more than during one of our best spells last season. Cabaye has admitted that he'd been carrying that injury for a while and it affected his performances. Cisse has been off the boil from the very start of the season. Tiote has had a stop-start season so far and has looked very sloppy, but I don't think there's any doubting his desire to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. Tbf Wullie, the body language of the players on Monday night after we drew level was that they thought they were going to go on and win the game. You could sense their hunger for that (imo). It's just that we actually don't really carry any attacking threat and we're easy to catch on the break, so we lost (not helped by crucial mistakes from Simpson, Tiote and Coloccini). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 normally i would say its way to early to sack a manager who did so well last season. Also we all are annoyed by the rapid change of managers at this club. But the problem is he is clueless of how to develop us into something more modern and attractive which would benefit the club as a whole. We cannot compete with clubs like tottenham year after year if this is the way we want to play football. His manager skills/philosophy is outdated in the long run. During the time he has been here....with all the great players he has, he still managed to take us backwards. just look at our attacking play this season....clueless. Cisse on the wing, for real many many bad examples to choose from. His selection is mostly right, but how cant it be, when we only have 14-15 to choose from. When was the last time we played a whole game without changing formation at some point. frustrating to say the least. I say it again and again....if only i could see what he was trying to do - develop our style of play, then i wouldn´t mind us loosing in the process as we progress. The main problem at this club at this moment is: Pardew is clueless! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. shola on the the last 25 mintues and go even longer when we have not won one single header in their penalty area all match. That is how clueless he is. It really nails it for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 normally i would say its way to early to sack a manager who did so well last season. Also we all are annoyed by the rapid change of managers at this club. But the problem is he is clueless of how to develop us into something more modern and attractive which would benefit the club as a whole. We cannot compete with clubs like tottenham year after year if this is the way we want to play football. His manager skills/philosophy is outdated in the long run. During the time he has been here....with all the great players he has, he still managed to take us backwards. just look at our attacking play this season....clueless. Cisse on the wing, for real many many bad examples to choose from. His selection is mostly right, but how cant it be, when we only have 14-15 to choose from. When was the last time we played a whole game without changing formation at some point. frustrating to say the least. I say it again and again....if only i could see what he was trying to do - develop our style of play, then i wouldn´t mind us loosing in the process as we progress. The main problem at this club at this moment is: Pardew is clueless! Pards it seems will never understand that style and cohesion is permanent, individual brilliance is temporary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Isn't emphasising solidity and a set system exactly what he gets criticised for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. shola on the the last 25 mintues and go even longer when we have not won one single header in their penalty area all match. That is how clueless he is. It really nails it for me! We barely hoofed it all game and the hoofing didn't really increase when Shola came on. Some people just make their mind up before the game and with each substitution without even watching the game properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 normally i would say its way to early to sack a manager who did so well last season. Also we all are annoyed by the rapid change of managers at this club. But the problem is he is clueless of how to develop us into something more modern and attractive which would benefit the club as a whole. We cannot compete with clubs like tottenham year after year if this is the way we want to play football. His manager skills/philosophy is outdated in the long run. During the time he has been here....with all the great players he has, he still managed to take us backwards. just look at our attacking play this season....clueless. Cisse on the wing, for real many many bad examples to choose from. His selection is mostly right, but how cant it be, when we only have 14-15 to choose from. When was the last time we played a whole game without changing formation at some point. frustrating to say the least. I say it again and again....if only i could see what he was trying to do - develop our style of play, then i wouldn´t mind us loosing in the process as we progress. The main problem at this club at this moment is: Pardew is clueless! I agree that we need to have a modern footballing philosophy that is coached from youth level all the way up. This is the way football clubs are run these days, and not just the top ones. I'm surprised we haven't done it already given the board's wankathon over the 'Arsenal model'. In order to do the above you need a progressive, modern manager who has a very definite way of playing and coaching eg. Rogers, Wenger, Martinez - we are unlikely to be able to attract a manager of this type because they won't work under our current board. IMO Pardew's footballing philosophy could never be coached at every level of the playing staff because it relies to much on studying the opposition. We don't go out to impose our own game on teams like Liverpool, Swansea, Arsenal and Wigan - nothing compromises the playing style of these teams, whereas we seem to chop and change depending on the style of the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. shola on the the last 25 mintues and go even longer when we have not won one single header in their penalty area all match. That is how clueless he is. It really nails it for me! We barely hoofed it all game and the hoofing didn't really increase when Shola came on. Some people just make their mind up before the game and with each substitution without even watching the game properly. This is how I saw it TBH. I was disappointed to see HBA go off, but that seems to be down to his return from injury, which it's sensible to manage. I would have probably gone for Marveaux rather than Shola like, but in the game overall we didn't hoof it excessively at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. shola on the the last 25 mintues and go even longer when we have not won one single header in their penalty area all match. That is how clueless he is. It really nails it for me! We barely hoofed it all game and the hoofing didn't really increase when Shola came on. Some people just make their mind up before the game and with each substitution without even watching the game properly. Sorry mate but that's total bollox!! Credit where it's due, we passed and moved a lot better in that game than in probably any other game this season but when Shola came on, all we did was hoof the ball. Watch it back if you disagree - there was a very definite change of style after the substitution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's not total bollocks and I don't need to see it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's not total bollocks and I don't need to see it again. Righto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well exactly, I'm not going to change my mind about something that I watched very closely with my own eyes 2 days ago. I even had me gegs on so I'm not having it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well exactly, I'm not going to change my mind about something that I watched very closely with my own eyes 2 days ago. I even had me gegs on so I'm not having it. Ok, don't cry about it. we'll just have to agree to disagree because I watched the same game and saw something very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm not crying about anything, stop being a knobhead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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