Parky Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. Luckily for us Pards takes stats very seriously. And this perpetual myth about team spirit...Well it comes with winning games. Once a side stops winning team spirit goes out the window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Surely last seasons stats are more representative of our likely general style of play under Pardew & those placed us 1% ahead of Man Utd for long balls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" over and over, then perhaps it'll all go away. Perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" over and over, then perhaps it'll all go away. Perhaps. That's the plan. Seriously though, I don't need stats to tell me how we're doing on the pitch. It's pretty obvious to everyone that we've been well below par and some issues really need to be addressed (set pieces, formations and all that). But I'm not convinced for one second that Pardew's long term plan is the long ball game (it's the same argument over and over again really). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" over and over, then perhaps it'll all go away. Perhaps. That's the plan. Seriously though, I don't need stats to tell me how we're doing on the pitch. It's pretty obvious to everyone that we've been well below par and some issues really need to be addressed (set pieces, formations and all that). But I'm not convinced for one second that Pardew's long term plan is the long ball game (it's the same argument over and over again really). He'll try to get Carroll again in Jan is my bet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" over and over, then perhaps it'll all go away. Perhaps. That's the plan. Seriously though, I don't need stats to tell me how we're doing on the pitch. It's pretty obvious to everyone that we've been well below par and some issues really need to be addressed (set pieces, formations and all that). But I'm not convinced for one second that Pardew's long term plan is the long ball game (it's the same argument over and over again really). people wouldn't mind the style of play if they thought it was getting the best or somewhere near it from what we have. points wise and results wise it hasn't been a bad start but with what we have available, i, and I'm sure the vast majority of people on here, think we could be getting a lot more in terms of performance and that if we carry on the way we are we'll get found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Stats don't necessarily mean a lot... Going to ignore that table like. If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" over and over, then perhaps it'll all go away. Perhaps. That's the plan. Seriously though, I don't need stats to tell me how we're doing on the pitch. It's pretty obvious to everyone that we've been well below par and some issues really need to be addressed (set pieces, formations and all that). But I'm not convinced for one second that Pardew's long term plan is the long ball game (it's the same argument over and over again really). He'll try to get Carroll again in Jan is my bet. loads of rumours of a ba-carroll swap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Against either Man Utd or Sunderland, Pards needs a big performance and result. If we flop in both games, then there'll be more than a few questions asked and he'll be firmly under pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Btw, we can't get Carroll in Jan, he's already played for 2 clubs this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 HOOF!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Seriously I´m not surprised at all to read that. I can´t believe how some can try to talk away this. Hopefully we can play better (I doubt that) but until now we hasen´t. Hasn´t fell this unexcited to watch us play in years. Lost all confidence whats so ever with Pardew and that we can bring decent football. Top 8th. I would that that immediately! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hindu was one of those trying to defend the transfer window we had so its not surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 http://i49.tinypic.com/2eov3b4.png Champions! *clap clap clap* Champions! *clap clap clap* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's not even close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Seriously I´m not surprised at all to read that. I can´t believe how some can try to talk away this. Hopefully we can play better (I doubt that) but until now we hasen´t. Hasn´t fell this unexcited to watch us play in years. Lost all confidence whats so ever with Pardew and that we can bring decent football. Top 8th. I would that that immediately! We played the exact same way during parts of this spring. This didn't change until that 2nd half against the mackems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We are essentially a long ball side and have been the whole time Pard8 has been here and there is no talking around that. The instructions are pretty clear when anyone in mf or def gets the ball - 9/10 it's hit long. The odd short one is when they give it to Hatem or Santon runs down the wing with it. No point in dressing it up any other way. It's not really about the lack of movement either as it's pretty clear to me players are told to hold positions or get told off..The CM pairing are rarely in and around the box. Cabaye and Tiote often take hopeless slashes at the ball from 35 yards out instead of moving forward with it through passing interchanges. It really is torture. This is compounded by the fact we have wide players playing on their wrong foot so can't cross from the byline and have to come inside and there is a lack of real pace in the side on the wings or otherwise. We have literally survived on world class finishing and and Hatem being unstopppable on his day, not much else. Krul kept us in many games last year as we rode our luck. That might be running out now. The percentage game can only take you so far and we genuinely suprised many sides last year who now study us more closely and will redoble their efforts this year. Some games this year already I've seen 3 defenders close down Hatem. There was that period last year (fluid 433, counterattacking football with midfield movement) where i think Pards went against his cautious long-ball philosophy (based on field position, no possession retention/build-up play in 2/3rds of the pitch) in a bid to turn around what was a stale run-of-form mid-season. I think the Wigan result, where they aggressively pressed our short passing game (coming out of our own half) and hit us hard in quick transition, has seen Pards return to type. The first twenty minutes at Wigan has emerged as something of a deal-breaker, for a manager who looked to be evolving in accordance with the players available. How often have we we committed midfield numbers forward (particularly through the middle, & early) on the counter, in the wake of Wigan. Our incohesive footy, with the calibre of attacking talent available, is no different to Allardyce's as per his best years at Bolton, which placed a heavy reliance snatching results thanks to individual moments of brilliance (from the likes of Okocha, and Youri D) in the final third of the pitch. Just a point about last year, and the aformentioned hot-spell of results last year which turned out to be difference maker between '8th & thereabouts - but still good enough for the board' and a surprise run at the CL spots. Off-the-ball, with Cabaye playing slightly more advanced in an attacking sense, he frequently snuck into the danger areas around the box. Looked a different player, dangerous & motivated - looked as though he was enjoying himself. Whereas there's disinterested look about him, as the game passes him by, when used in that deep midfield line of two with The Hump Ball Corner (of Willo, Simpson & GK) bypassing him for the most of the game. My final comment is better suited to Dropout's football philosophy thread. But from the appropriation of training time allocated to each aspect of the game (ie. most of the preparation devoted to defensive schemes) to what is clearly a long-ball strategy come matchday, the weekly routine must be demotivating workplace environement for the team's pure ball-players. Too many ball-players on our books, and Pards' 'up and, at 'em' long-ball philosophy will wear thin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Good post Tyson. With you on all of that. Excellent point about that Wigan game and the blowback from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 What's the consensus then, sack Pardew? He's clearly clueless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 No point. As integrated with the regime as Sports Direct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 That and it would be an utterly stupid thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Which is why no-one's called for him to be sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I know it's already been alluded to. Cisse is non-factor in open play now, looks unmotivated. At his best Cisse is not a marauding dribbler, he's not an atypical African forward when working the wide channels. He'll beat you his his one-touch link-up play and smarts off-the-ball (when there is midfield movement around him). We should look to offload him in Jan & replace him with a lump up forward, while his stock is still high. I don't think he's cut-out for target-man (back-to-goal) useage, physically & mentally. The current brand of football, under Pards, is a far cry from what i saw of Freiburg last year(even when they caught at the wrong end of the table). It must be a shock to the system, for Cisse, football culture-wise - from the priorities layed out on the training paddock, to the strategy implemented on game-day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sell Cisse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sell Cisse? No point. Him and Ashley have just bought matching smoking jackets Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We are essentially a long ball side and have been the whole time Pard8 has been here and there is no talking around that. The instructions are pretty clear when anyone in mf or def gets the ball - 9/10 it's hit long. The odd short one is when they give it to Hatem or Santon runs down the wing with it. No point in dressing it up any other way. It's not really about the lack of movement either as it's pretty clear to me players are told to hold positions or get told off..The CM pairing are rarely in and around the box. Cabaye and Tiote often take hopeless slashes at the ball from 35 yards out instead of moving forward with it through passing interchanges. It really is torture. This is compounded by the fact we have wide players playing on their wrong foot so can't cross from the byline and have to come inside and there is a lack of real pace in the side on the wings or otherwise. We have literally survived on world class finishing and and Hatem being unstopppable on his day, not much else. Krul kept us in many games last year as we rode our luck. That might be running out now. The percentage game can only take you so far and we genuinely suprised many sides last year who now study us more closely and will redoble their efforts this year. Some games this year already I've seen 3 defenders close down Hatem. There was that period last year (fluid 433, counterattacking football with midfield movement) where i think Pards went against his cautious long-ball philosophy (based on field position, no possession retention/build-up play in 2/3rds of the pitch) in a bid to turn around what was a stale run-of-form mid-season. I think the Wigan result, where they aggressively pressed our short passing game (coming out of our own half) and hit us hard in quick transition, has seen Pards return to type. The first twenty minutes at Wigan has emerged as something of a deal-breaker, for a manager who looked to be evolving in accordance with the players available. How often have we we committed midfield numbers forward (particularly through the middle, & early) on the counter, in the wake of Wigan. Our incohesive footy, with the calibre of attacking talent available, is no different to Allardyce's as per his best years at Bolton, which placed a heavy reliance snatching results thanks to individual moments of brilliance (from the likes of Okocha, and Youri D) in the final third of the pitch. Just a point about last year, and the aformentioned hot-spell of results last year which turned out to be difference maker between '8th & thereabouts - but still good enough for the board' and a surprise run at the CL spots. Off-the-ball, with Cabaye playing slightly more advanced in an attacking sense, he frequently snuck into the danger areas around the box. Looked a different player, dangerous & motivated - looked as though he was enjoying himself. Whereas there's disinterested look about him, as the game passes him by, when used in that deep midfield line of two with The Hump Ball Corner (of Willo, Simpson & GK) bypassing him for the most of the game. My final comment is better suited to Dropout's football philosophy thread. But from the appropriation of training time allocated to each aspect of the game (ie. most of the preparation devoted to defensive schemes) to what is clearly a long-ball strategy come matchday, the weekly routine must be demotivating workplace environement for the team's pure ball-players. Too many ball-players on our books, and Pards' 'up and, at 'em' long-ball philosophy will wear thin. We have played 4-3-3 this season, 2nd half v Spurs so that would indicate Pardew is aware of its merits if 4-4-2 isnt working. We did have both Cabaye & Tiote that day though, which we havent had since (which is a huge factor i think people are underplaying in favor of discussing tactics). So perhaps he doesnt trust using it without those two. Certainly though both strikers seem to be at their best through the middle & you dont advance their understanding or ability to play there together by not giving it time to click. If Cabaye has Tiote behind him, he might be able to help them. Again, we havent seen this properly yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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