Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Despite the fact we lost those games i do think we looked much better and functioned better as a team.... well except Norwich that was garbage for everyone involved and i don't think Ba would have made it any better as we created f*ck all for one. It's obviously just a coincidence but Ba scored 5 goals against those 3 teams in the corresponding fixtures. It could be argued he won us 5 points then too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I would much rather have a pragmatic manager than one who causes trouble with the board for the sake of his own ego. At the end of the day a manager like that would be fired fairly quickly anyway, by this regime at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. The other players aren't playing that well TBH. They've hardly been poor, have they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Dembele has been below par in recent weeks but that is more to having to do more defensive work without Sandro and Parker being crap than having the team built around Bale. But that aside nah not really, Bale being the forefront of anything has hardly effected them as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Aye, I don't buy it at all like, they didn't exactly look bad as a team against us for one. Bale is on fire and undoubtedly the main reason behind their current form, but he's not fucking Superman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I didn't mean they had been poor, they've been decent to good. But Bale is obviously helping them to gain a lot of extra points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Of course they have affected the overall play and system of those teams. Don't be daft. Ba wasn't shifted when Cisse arrived. They played as a partnership for a good number of games including Cisse's debut when Cisse came. Only during the middle of Ba's slump was he moved put wide, same thing with Cisse. And even then we played them as a two when we beat Chelsea. They played as a two at the start, Cisse shone Ba stopped scoring. Ba moved wide. Same story this year in reverse. Not understanding the horrible management view. People act like he preferred Ba for no reason. I would say Steven Taylor, Debuchy, Sissokho, Gouffran and most importantly the return of Cabaye as biggest factors than our return to form than Ba leaving. IMO we would be a better side with Ba playing in this system than Cisse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. If he got injured now how do you think they'd do? Who would carry the weight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. If he got injured now how do you think they'd do? Who would carry the weight? I don't know and I don't care, take Bale out though and they aren't a mid table side, that is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hans, how many less points do you think they would have without Bale? It can't be far off 10 IMO. Not that it's a problem, they're entitled to any points he gets them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Yes , our best performances and results came with Cisse being flanked by Ba and Hatem in a front 3. We never saw that once this season. All down to Pardew kowtowing to Ba's demands. Weak management to put the whole team's balance out of kilter for one man's petulance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They would set out differently though so you cannot really say, I doubt they'd be any lower than 7th though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Oh come on, if Bale was injured against us and Wham and someone else in their squad took hisplace they would not have taken 6 points. He's not on the end of team moves. He's scoring great goals and goals only he could score. They've built the whole team around him. He can do whatever he likes and what's best for him because he will deliver. Holtby's not a wide player but teams are marking Bale out at LW so he moves and Holtby has to love it. He's carrying them. They are not playing brilliantly as a team at all. He scored twice at Wham and provided the cross for the other goal. Man United ATM are in the groove, everyone is playing well. That is not the case at Spurs. Gareth Bale's individual brilliance is winning them points and the team is built to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Oh come on, if Bale was injured against us and Wham and someone else in their squad took hisplace they would not have taken 6 points. Wow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 It genuinely astounds me that anyone can be that fucking naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 He has a point though, Bale has got them a number of results with basically solo brilliance. And especially important since Spurs don't have anyone else who can score a goal at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Oh come on, if Bale was injured against us and Wham and someone else in their squad took hisplace they would not have taken 6 points. He's not on the end of team moves. He's scoring great goals and goals only he could score. They've built the whole team around him. He can do whatever he likes and what's best for him because he will deliver. Holtby's not a wide player but teams are marking Bale out at LW so he moves and Holtby has to love it. He's carrying them. They are not playing brilliantly as a team at all. He scored twice at Wham and provided the cross for the other goal. Man United ATM are in the groove, everyone is playing well. That is not the case at Spurs. Gareth Bale's individual brilliance is winning them points and the team is built to do so. Broadly agree with this. Adebayor and Dembele and others have been pretty average a lot of this season. Bale has indeed been the talisman most games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 He has a point though, Bale has got them a number of results with basically solo brilliance. And especially important since Spurs don't have anyone else who can score a goal at the moment. The 2 free kicks against Lyon are good examples of this. They're as close to a 1 man team as you're likely to get atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 He has a point though, Bale has got them a number of results with basically solo brilliance. And especially important since Spurs don't have anyone else who can score a goal at the moment. So without Bale Tottenham could not have beaten us at home and West Ham away, the latter being in terrible form? Come on, man. I'm not saying they certainly would have but it hardly would have been a gigantic feat for them. Without Bale they wouldn't instantly crumble, they still have some superb players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Our best results last year came at home to Man U and away to Chelsea. We played 4-4-2 in each. One with Ba and Cisse. What's best for the team is playing the in-form man in his best position. If you think the difference between last season and te beginning of this was swapping Ba and Cisse around then there's not much I can say. The fact Pardew is still willing to stick Cisse out wide from time to time just confirms he doesn't believe Cisse at the moment to be the best option at 9 at all times. Contract situation aside. IMO most managers and pundits will think play the in form man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What's best for the team is playing the in-form man in his best position. I don't really agree with this, and it highlights the problem of discussing hypothetical situations v reality. What I meant was that in the hypothetical situation that Ba was wide and Cisse was central, it's very possible that Ba would have got some (but less) goals and Cisse would have also got some (more than he did in reality). Then the discussion about the 'form man' would not arise. Obviously it's impossible to know, my opinion is just that the team would have been better served with Ba out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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